What Is Up With His Scales?

Ok so I made a post asking about my rescue, Grumpy, and what I've since learned is pretty advanced fin rot.

That's being worked on, but now I have another question.

What is up with the lack of scales on his head and back?




The color in this photo is accurate, the "skin" where the scales should be is dark blue and looks pretty smooth and "healthy." No sores or wounds or abrasions or anything. Just no scales.

They look like they've been rubbed or scratched off. But he looked like this when I got him, and he was being kept in a tiny Tupperware bowl filled with like 3 inches of filthy water (literally it was less than what's in those little betta containers at petco) and literally nothing else. It was all smooth plastic, there was nothing he could've rubbed or scraped himself on.

That, and he could barely move when I got him, not just because there was so little water for him to move in, but because he was just weak and couldn't swim all that well. I highly doubt he could've rubbed against the plastic hard enough to take off the scales.

Every internet search for betta scale issues only gives me scratched/scraped/rubbed off scales, or like dropsy. I can't find anything remotely pertaining to this.

It hasn't gotten worse in the 3-ish weeks that I've had him, but it hasn't gotten better either. Is he okay? Will they grow back?

I've seen pet store bettas in those little cups with scales rubbed off along their spines, is this just a common thing among not-super-healthy bettas? Is it just cosmetic? What causes it? Can I prevent it from getting worse?

Update on fin rot:

I just want thank everyone who answered and gave me advice. You have no idea how much I appreciate it.

Until getting him, literally all I knew about betta care was 1) 3 gallon tank minimum, 5 gallon preferred, with filter and heater, 2) use only betta food and don't over feed, 3) use soft decorations so they don't tear fins, 4) change water regularly, and 5) keep them separate. I didn't know anything about cycling or ammonia or bacteria or aquarium salt or anything.

Most of my bettas live/lived 5-ish years or so, so I thought I was doing pretty good. It's a lot of new info, but you all gave me an awesome starting point so it doesn't seem so overwhelming. I'm very grateful to all of you.

Turns out what I thought was just a bubbler is an undergravel filter. So I have that and a heater now. The store was out of freshwater aquarium salt, I'm going to a different store tomorrow who has it in stock. I'm holding off on medication for now, because I'm paranoid I'll screw it up, but I just read this evening that fin rot can lead to body rot, which can be fatal, so I already have the money set aside and if I don't see a marked improvement in the next few days, I'm going to buy it immediately and start that.

I'm hoping the filter, heater, salt, and daily 50% water changes make a difference.

Funny story, I've taken to feeding him 2 pellets when I finish changing the water, just so it wouldn't stress him out with how often I'm doing it, and now he associates it with food. Every time he sees the blue cup I use, he gets super excited and is all up in my business while I'm trying to get the water out of the small tank. I've accidentally scooped him up more than once.

He doesn't care. He just wants the food. Totally fearless.

Flipping adorable.

And some person had him in a tiny little cup and literally did not even have any kind of fish food whatsoever in his house, because he had stopped feeding him months ago, according to him.

I hope every single video or movie or tv show or whatever he watches, for the rest of his life, has incorrectly synced audio.

 

are you sure hes missing scales? the dark colour is just a marking in his pattern

 

Beautiful fish! I've read up that the scales coming off is caused by "septicemia" (can be caused by infection from dirty water or stress). From what I understand it's basically fin rot for scales. You said it's not getting worse, so that's good. The salt should help with both fin rot and the scales problem. Think the scales might take longer to heal though...

 

are you sure hes missing scales? the dark colour is just a marking in his pattern

Very sure, yes. The texture is completely smooth, where the rest of him looks the way every betta's scales look. I pointed out the color being dark blue because many searches regarding scratched off scales involve white or yellow, or otherwise very obviously unhealthy flesh underneath, where his just seems smooth.

Beautiful fish! I've read up that the scales coming off is caused by "septicemia". From what I understand it's basically fin rot for scales. You said it's not getting worse, so that's good. The salt should help with both fin rot and the scales problem. Think the scales might take longer to heal though...

Isn't he???? My 5-year-old daughter says he's ugly because his face looks so rough (that and neither she nor I had ever seen popeye in person before, and he had it when I brought him home. It's not fun to look at, so the memory of that might be part of why she says he's ugly. But she says ugly fish need to be taken care of, too, so it works), but I think he's adorable.

I think he's a half moon, but so much of his fins and tail are gone, it's impossible to tell. You can see just how bad it is. That's why I had to ask here, because none of the pictures I could find online of fin rot look like that. Of course he only just started spreading his fins in the last few days, they had been all clumped together, so I couldn't see it before.




Poor little guy. But he's a fighter, man. I didn't think he'd make it. He's completely bent on staying alive and enjoying life.

Most of my other bettas are more or less indifferent to my existence, unless I'm feeding them, but he honestly just gets so excited when he sees me. His tank is a few feet inside my front door, and that's an awesome thing to come home to.

Thank you! I will definitely look that up. No, it's not getting worse, thankfully. And with his fin rot being so severe, it makes sense that he would have a "scale rot," as well, so to speak.

Oh I'm sure it'll take a long time to heal, if it even ever does. I've read that sometimes scales that have been rubbed or scratched off never grow back, so I wonder if these ever will. Along with his fins.

But even if they don't, he's still gorgeous, and I love him to death.

 

I'm rather optimistic about the scales coming back if the skin still looks healthy, I had a flashy goldfish who knocked his scales off, and two weeks later you could see the new ones growing back in

 

I'm rather optimistic about the scales coming back if the skin still looks healthy, I had a flashy goldfish who knocked his scales off, and two weeks later you could see the new ones growing back in

Oh awesome, I'm glad to hear that! I've had him for about three weeks, and there hasn't been any new growth yet, but with how bad his health was when I got him, it's not surprising that everything may take much longer than usual to improve.

 

He looks like a dragonscale betta, it's probably just his natural scaling. Some dragons lack scales all over their head.

 

He's beautiful! I think it's just his natural markings. Both my dragon scales have it. I like the little blaze on their heads. I think it's cute. My one kabukI has dark skin and bright blue scales just like that.

 

I don't have a lot of experience with missing scales but you're right in that you need soft decorations. My betta managed to cut his eye on a hide rock I got from LFS. Personally I'd recommend using live plants instead of the fake ones. Betta are original from slow moving rivers in Siam, now Thailand. They're fairly densely planted rivers which I think is why bettas generally like lower light levels. I can't say much for the scales and fin rot but as long as he is swimming around rather actively and still eating he'll probably be fine. He is a beautiful fish. I'm currently planning on using some aquarium calking and making my betta hides for his tank. Hope everything works out it sounds like you're doing well. I'm no expert so take my advice with a grain of salt.

 

I have to tell you that every time I see that picture of Grumpy he reminds me of the Mayor of Munchkinland lol with the bald head and the swirling hair and pointed beard haha. Just the way the missing scales kind of swirl around his eyes. Anyways, I had to share that lol

 

I look forward to seeing updates of his improvements! He's a beauty! And lucky to have found you.

 

My new betta has the same issue with the missing scales on his head but the skin looking colored and healthy. I'm curious to see if anyone knows what's up with them or if it's just natural. He's so adorable by the way! So glad that you saved him and best of luck!

 

I don't have a lot of experience with missing scales but you're right in that you need soft decorations. My betta managed to cut his eye on a hide rock I got from LFS. Personally I'd recommend using live plants instead of the fake ones. Betta are original from slow moving rivers in Siam, now Thailand. They're fairly densely planted rivers which I think is why bettas generally like lower light levels. I can't say much for the scales and fin rot but as long as he is swimming around rather actively and still eating he'll probably be fine. He is a beautiful fish. I'm currently planning on using some aquarium calking and making my betta hides for his tank. Hope everything works out it sounds like you're doing well. I'm no expert so take my advice with a grain of salt.

Yeah live plants are my eventual goal. I've got plastic in there now, but very, very soft. My very first double tail become a triple tail because I didn't realize it was such a big deal, the poor thing. Now I'm super picky about what I put in all their tanks.

Yes, he's active and happy, and loves zooming in and out through his plants. The hides you mention sound like a good idea. You should post pics when it's done.

I have to tell you that every time I see that picture of Grumpy he reminds me of the Mayor of Munchkinland lol with the bald head and the swirling hair and pointed beard haha. Just the way the missing scales kind of swirl around his eyes. Anyways, I had to share that lol

Lol!!!! I knew exactly what your were talking about as soon as you said it. And yeah he totally does!! I've been wanting to change his name now that it looks like he's a permanent new family member. I was thinking Grim, but I wonder if that Mayor has a name. I'll have to look that up.

I look forward to seeing updates of his improvements! He's a beauty! And lucky to have found you.

Awe, thank you! I was planning on posting pictures tomorrow after his water change, unless my husband is home and can take pictures during the water change. He associates it with food so he gets so excited and is just all up in the middle of everything. He doesn't care, and my convenience is not super high on his list of priorities to begin with, so it's just funny to watch.

My new betta has the same issue with the missing scales on his head but the skin looking colored and healthy. I'm curious to see if anyone knows what's up with them or if it's just natural. He's so adorable by the way! So glad that you saved him and best of luck!

Thank you! Yeah I've seen them like that at the pet store, and I have a half moon with some really odd speckled coloring who has this line of bare skin down his back (His scales are white-ish, while his skin is like a dark red. It's really unusual and interesting to look at). But I've never seen just a patch like that before. I guess it is just how some of them naturally are.

 

I would expect the missing scales to be from inbreeding. To get those fancy fins, there is a lot of crossing and recrossing in his ancestry, and sometimes, the choices a fancy breeder makes cause the fish to gain one thing and lose another.

It could be they came off as a disease response, if they were weak to begin with, but the pattern looks pretty sold.
That's a face with character.

 

Alright, so husband couldn't get pics of GrI'm (I'm changing his name from Grumpy) during the water change and gravel vacuuming (I bought a gravel vacuum because I read you're not supposed to wash/rinse the gravel with an undergravel filter). But I got a couple afterward.

I'm a little concerned because I'm not seeing a marked improvement, but I don't know how long it usually takes. Also, I put an eighth of a Jungle Fungus Clear tab in last night. I read that it's supposed to turn the water blue, but it didn't. And it almost looks like there are little tiny pieces of matter floating around in the water now. Is that normal?



This is what he looks like today.

And for comparison, this is what he looked like when I first posted. I don't see a whole lot of improvement.




Is it just me or do those pinhole tears look bigger? Is it getting worse?

Aaaaaaannddd in other news....




Uggghhh!!!

Seriously, I think I made up a whole new class of swear words. I was impressed with myself.

I guess I should've looked for that from the beginning. I mean, I've known for awhile now that he's not going to die immediately, I should've checked for everything. It's not surprising that he has velvet, too.

And I am flat broke until Wednesday. Like, flat broke.

So I raised the temp to about 83 (which is as high as it goes), turned off his light, and tossed a black pillowcase over his tank (what do you know, the small size of the tank actually has a benefit now. Much easier to cover that than a 5 gallon). I'm still putting in 1/2 a teaspoon of salt with each 50% water change, and I'll do the next dose of JFC tabs in a couple days (I think the label says 4 days).

I also switched all my bettas to a better diet. I was feeding them HikarI Betta Bio-Gold, with fish meal, wheat flour, soybean meal, and rice bran as the first four ingredients. Yesterday I got Omega One betta pellets with salmon, whole herring, wheat flour, and whole shrimp as the first four ingredients. The price difference is significant, but GrI'm definitely needs it, and the others will benefit from it, too.

Seriously, the guy who had GrI'm is just an awful human being. I hope, for the rest of his life, he steps in a wet spot as soon as he puts on a new pair of socks. And explosive diarrhea with frequent sneezes on every first date.

 

So I decided to check all my fish for velvet. The others look fine, but EnkI is my first and only white one, and it's always hard to tell with him because his colors are just so iridescent. He's also changed color a bit in the 6-ish months that I've had him, so that makes it harder, too.

Is this velvet, or his natural coloring? I'm noticing it has almost a green-ish tint, rather than the rust color, but it might be rust colored, too.







I don't share anything between tanks without thoroughly rinsing it in scalding hot water, so I don't think it's velvet, but I'd much rather be safe than sorry. The last thing I need right now is a velvet outbreak.

He's my most active (and youngest) fish, insatiable appetite, curious, inquisitive, nosy like you wouldn't believe. Everyone who walks into the room, he's got to know what they're doing. If that's velvet, it's all over his body. I'd think he'd be acting noticeably sick by this point, right?

But then again, GrI'm has it and isn't acting sick either.

 

I don't have much advice for you, but I'm so happy to see he's doing well! I saw your thread when you originally got him (can't remember if I posted in it or not), and I'm really glad he made it ️ I can't believe that someone would let an animal live like that, but you're a truly good person for trying to do something about it instead of ignoring it. Keep doing what you're doing, and I hope GrI'm makes a full recovery

 

If your worried, my guy has the same thing and I've had him for about 5months; had it before there was any decorarions in the tank. I keep my water very very clean as well. He acts like the hungry puppy dog he is and it doesn't seem to affect him. They're almost a similar shade of blue too Just maintain what you can for the fin rot, and I have hopes he'll get better. Although, putting my two cents in, the edging of the tail almost looks like tail biting patterns, minus the pinholes. There is a chance he is tail-biting and further causing the infections/fin rot...the longer finned bettas sometimes do this.

 

I don't have much advice for you, but I'm so happy to see he's doing well! I saw your thread when you originally got him (can't remember if I posted in it or not), and I'm really glad he made it ️ I can't believe that someone would let an animal live like that, but you're a truly good person for trying to do something about it instead of ignoring it. Keep doing what you're doing, and I hope GrI'm makes a full recovery

Thank you, I couldn't believe it either. I wish I'd thought to take pictures of his bowl and what he looked like when I first got him. It was infuriating. But he's unbelievably tough, to survive that for God knows how long, and then to also survive me not actively treating him, and putting him in an uncycled tank.

He doesn't give up easily. I'm pretty sure he'll make the full recovery, just out of sheer stubbornness.

If your worried, my guy has the same thing and I've had him for about 5months; had it before there was any decorarions in the tank. I keep my water very very clean as well. He acts like the hungry puppy dog he is and it doesn't seem to affect him. They're almost a similar shade of blue too Just maintain what you can for the fin rot, and I have hopes he'll get better. Although, putting my two cents in, the edging of the tail almost looks like tail biting patterns, minus the pinholes. There is a chance he is tail-biting and further causing the infections/fin rot...the longer finned bettas sometimes do this.

What a gorgeous fish!

Thank you, I absolutely will. I've never seen him bite his tail, and I don't know enough about fin rot to tell whether it's getting better or worse. And then of course the velvet doesn't help things.

How can you tell for sure if he's tail biting? Is there a way to find out other than just catching him doing it? How do you stop it?

 

I actually think his tail looks better. What you think looks like bigger holes to me looks like new growth. New growth will be clear or whitish in color and will fill in with color later. It might just be the angle of the picture, but I think it looks better.

Keep dosing with the salt and the jungle Fungus tabs. Next dose, dissolve the tab in a cup of tank water first. Then pour into the tank. You will notice a slight bluish green tint. It literally needs to fizz when you add it to the water. Like alka seltzer tabs. If it doesn't fizz then stir it around in the cup until it dissolves completely.

I have a tail biter too. It is basically anxiety. GrI'm isn't bored yet, so my guess is stress. I'm not sure your guy is biting. You can't really stop them. Some people rearrange the tank often or Add toys. Stuff to keep them occupied. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Good luck! You will get him through this. He is lucky to have you!

 

Jen86 do you have pictures of EnkI from before? So maybe a comparison. It does kind of look like velvet, but a before & after would help.

 

Jen86 do you have pictures of EnkI from before? So maybe a comparison. It does kind of look like velvet, but a before & after would help.

Not with a light on him like that.

I actually was just gifted a pathetically small, straight up abusive set of 3 tanks by a well-meaning friend who knew my financial issues with Grim. I seriously spit my drink out when I saw how much the "tanks" cost. She paid $50 for 3 ridiculously small tanks. Like, 1/2 a gallon each.

So I'm returning that and am going to get a bigger tank for GrI'm to start cycling, and am considering medication for velvet. But GrI'm is already medicated with the JFC tabs and I'd rather not use malachite green or copper sulfate with EnkI if I don't have to.

I put salt in his tank, and am also going to buy a water testing kit. I'm planning on doing daily 50% water changes in his tank along with Grim's. I'm hoping that a few days of salt and super clean water will make a difference, and then I'll take another pic of him and post it.

If there's no difference and he's still not showing any symptoms, I think it might just be his color. I've only had GrI'm for 3 weeks, I have no idea how fast it can grow, but it looks really advanced on Enki. More so on him than Grim. And the only way he could've gotten it is from Grim.

At this point though, I'm going to treat him as if he has it. I'd absolutely rather be safe than sorry.

Thank you so much for your reassurances with Grim's fin rot. That makes me feel a lot better.

 

Yeah check this out.



Fifty bucks for this.

It's pathetic. For the life of me, I will never, ever understand why places even sell junk like this. And I've never seen a set this small for this much money.

She thought she was doing me a favor because I've got six (which, if I hadn't had to drop $70 on tank, decor, medication, gravel vacuum, etc for Grim, I would've been able to afford to care for easily. Normally I do not get a new pet unless I can comfortably afford to care for it as well as my others), and I could put 3 in here, so that made sense to her.

I thanked her and told her she's a lifesaver (perhaps literally), but that I would be returning the tanks and using the money for stuff I need.

Sigh... she knows all of my tanks are at least 2.5 gallons, and most of them are 5. And that with Grim's health, he needs a 5. The only one who is in a 2.5 is Enki, because he's so small. And that's temporary, he's going to be upgraded down the line, and the 2.5 will be my QT/hospital tank.

Hmmm, maybe I'll get a 10 and divide it. Then I'll have a new home for both GrI'm and Enki, and I'll use both the little ones as QT or hospital tanks. I've never run into an issue before, but with 6 fish (and let's be honest, once my finances stabilize, I'm getting more. I'm always getting more. I miss my sorority and right now I have one old girl in a 20 gallon all by herself. She could downgrade to the 5 that my other female is in, and I could start a new sorority with my girl Asherah and some new ladies), it might not be a bad idea to have 2 cycled spare tanks.

The velvet should be gone by the time the new tank would be cycled anyway, right? So GrI'm and EnkI could both upgrade to better accommodations.

That went off topic a bit. But it just surprises me how much she's over and sees how I care for my fish, and the kinds of setups they're in. She's heard me lament how small Grim's tank is. She said it just never even occurred to her, she saw bettas in the picture, and saw three tanks, and thought it would work. It's so crazy how readily pet stores push misinformation on customers.

But at least I have some financial breathing room, and my sweet, tough boy will have a better home than the pitiful 1.5g he's in. There's a light at the end of the tunnel.