What Is The Problem??? My Tank Won't Cycle.

HI everyone. I've been trying to get my 10 gal cycled since March. Made a lot of dumb mistakes prior to April and lost guppies but I finally got on the right track - mostly. The last advice I was given was back on April 30th. I now have 5 male guppies who seem happy and healthy. I've been changing 30% of the water every other day, using Prime. My ammonia shows between .25 - .50, nitrites are always at 0 and nitrates have been 5 for the past month. I don't think I'm overfeeding. This is really getting frustrating. It shouldn't take 3.5 months. What could I be doing wrong? My regular tap water didn't show any ammonia. (also have 3 moss balls) I'm exhausted - please advise.

 

What is your pH? I believe it’s more difficult to cycle a tank with a low pH because the ammonia turns into ammonium which doesn’t feed BB.

 

It's been around 8.

 

Have you tried using a bacteria established, like Seachem Stability? That always gets my tank cycled within 2 days of filling. That and running previously established media through the filter.

 

5 male guppies being overfed will produce ammonia, BUT your cycle should catch up eventually. 0 Nitrites and low nitrates are a sign you're ALMOST there.

Are you changing out the filter regularly? If so, that's your issue.

 

May I suggest that you slack off on the water changes? Try to go at least a week between them. Of course if your ammonia goes too high you will want to do a water change sooner to get it back down. If your cycle is in fact complete the nitrates should start going up. The every other day water changes are most likely why they are staying at 5.

Did you use a bottled bacteria at any time during the cycling process, 'specially Stability? The reason I am asking is several folks have had a problem with lingering low amounts of ammonia long after it should be totally gone and the common denominator seems to be the use of some of the bottled bacterias.

 

Have you tried using a bacteria established, like Seachem Stability? That always gets my tank cycled within 2 days of filling. That and running previously established media through the filter.

At one point, I did use Stability and Prime. Another member suggested I use only Prime. Hard to know what to do.

5 male guppies being overfed will produce ammonia, BUT your cycle should catch up eventually. 0 Nitrites and low nitrates are a sign you're ALMOST there.

Are you changing out the filter regularly? If so, that's your issue.

I changed the filter once, back in April. Haven't changed it since. I occasionally rinse it out in the old water.

May I suggest that you slack off on the water changes? Try to go at least a week between them. Of course if your ammonia goes too high you will want to do a water change sooner to get it back down. If your cycle is in fact complete the nitrates should start going up. The every other day water changes are most likely why they are staying at 5.

Did you use a bottled bacteria at any time during the cycling process, 'specially Stability? The reason I am asking is several folks have had a problem with lingering low amounts of ammonia long after it should be totally gone and the common denominator seems to be the use of some of the bottled bacterias.

The reason I do the water changes every other day is because the ammonia climbs to .5, which is bad from what I've read. I used Prime and Stability at one point and another member suggested I only use Prime. Since March, I lost probably 7-9 guppies, most likely due to ammonia poisoning. I was only changing the water once a week back then.

 

the ammonia climbs to .5, which is bad from what I've read

A 0 ppm ammonia reading is ideal, but 0.5 ppm is at the very low end of ammonia toxicity. For example, de Oliveira (2008) conducted a study involving cardinal tetras, and a sample population showed mortality only when ammonia reached 1.4 ppm ammonia, while the lethal dose (50% mortality over 96 hours) was 23.7 ppm.

Generally, most people recommend larger (50%) water changes when ammonia reads 1 ppm.

 

A 0 ppm ammonia reading is ideal, but 0.5 ppm is at the very low end of ammonia toxicity. For example, de Oliveira (2008) conducted a study involving cardinal tetras, and a sample population showed mortality only when ammonia reached 1.4 ppm ammonia, while the lethal dose (50% mortality over 96 hours) was 23.7 ppm.

Generally, most people recommend larger (50%) water changes when ammonia reads 1 ppm.

Is .5 ok with the ph at 8? Temps around 78.

 

Is .5 ok with the ph at 8? Temps around 78.

The reason I do the water changes every other day is because the ammonia climbs to .5, which is bad from what I've read. I used Prime and Stability at one point and another member suggested I only use Prime. Since March, I lost probably 7-9 guppies, most likely due to ammonia poisoning. I was only changing the water once a week back then.

As long as you are using Prime to bind the ammonia You can skip the water change for that day. If it doesn't go over .5 at any time you can go for up to a week without changing the water as long as you add prime at least every other day.

Prime is first and foremost a water conditioner. It does nothing to help cycle a tank so is not needed to speed the process along. The reason I personally recommend it is because it not only removes the chlorine and some heavy metals but it also binds up low amounts of ammonia thus protects your fish from that lingering ammonia.

At this point in your cycle you should be to the point of only having to do weekly water changes. I know there are those that will not agree with me but this in one more time I read that someone has a lingering low amount of ammonia long after using Stability. I don't know why it happens but it happens too often just to dismiss it out of hand.

 

If you are using Prime every other day (or everyday) you will get ammonia readings. Prime creates "false" ammonia readings. I would stop the WC and using prime and monitor the ammonia on daily basis, if it spikes up the issue is somewhere else and immediately use Prime again.
Other possible issue could be your biological media is no large enough to handle your bioload, but try the above first before we come up with other possible issues.

 

If you are using Prime every other day (or everyday) you will get ammonia readings. Prime creates "false" ammonia readings.

Do you have documentation for this statement? If ammonia is present and Prime is added to protect the fish the API test will still pick it up. Prime doesn't remove it. It just binds it into a form that is less harmful to the fish. That isn't considered a "false" positive.

 

If you are using Prime every other day (or everyday) you will get ammonia readings. Prime creates "false" ammonia readings. I would stop the WC and using prime and monitor the ammonia on daily basis, if it spikes up the issue is somewhere else and immediately use Prime again.
Other possible issue could be your biological media is no large enough to handle your bioload, but try the above first before we come up with other possible issues.

Prime does not cause false positive ammonia readings. Not sure where you got that info.
I do daily water changes on some of my fry tanks, with prime, and they are ammonia free.

 

Considering your readings and your fish and tank size, I'm wondering if your tank is actually cycled but your bacteria just can't build a big enough colony to keep up.

Depending on your filter, there just might not be enough surface space inside it for the bacteria colony to grown large enough to cope.

You might try to get a small bag of fluval biomax media (it's a small net bag full bn of ceramic tubes) and place it in the main open space of your filter. This will allow more bacteria to grow in your filter which will be able to eat a larger amount of ammonia.

 

Do you have documentation for this statement? If ammonia is present and Prime is added to protect the fish the API test will still pick it up. Prime doesn't remove it. It just binds it into a form that is less harmful to the fish. That isn't considered a "false" positive.

You are correct that Prime does not remove ammonia, it binds it to an ionized NH4 form for ~24hrs and the biological filtration (if present) or water changes (using water with no ammonia) are the ones removing the ammonia. I should have elaborated more, or worded things differently. If the test is picking up ammonia readings, there is a form of ammonia present. However, she currently is doing water changes every other day which can be introducing ammonia from her water source directly (first post said no, I would test again), or prime is "creating" (unbinding would be the correct term) the (non harmful) ammonia when removing chloramines (if present). I would check with you water company to see what chemical they use to sanitize the water, or post your location.


It would also be good to know the brand o f the test, the size of her tank, the filter she using, the filtration media she using, etc etc.

BTW - The manufacturer uses the term "false positive" for non harmful ammonia, which can come from binding the existing ammonia to an NH4 form, or from the biproduct of NH4 coming from the chlorimines removal process.

 

prime is "creating" (unbinding would be the correct term) the (non harmful) ammonia when removing chloramines (if present).

I understood it to be that the existing ammonia is being converted to less harmful ammonium for 24 hours. Meaning it is converting the ammonia that was ALREADY IN THE TANK. This wouldn't change the results of the test. The prime didn't add any ammonia, it just converted the already existing ammonia, that was already in the tank water, to ammonium.

 

I understood it to be that the existing ammonia is being converted to less harmful ammonium for 24 hours. Meaning it is converting the ammonia that was ALREADY IN THE TANK. This wouldn't change the results of the test. The prime didn't add any ammonia, it just converted the already existing ammonia, that was already in the tank water, to ammonium.

Correct, Prime does not add ammonia from the product...it can "create" non harmful ammonia from chloramines (if they are present in your tap water). Someone with chlroamines in their tap water, suing prime and doing WC every day or every other day are very likely to get what I would consider ammonia readings....you might no be giving enough time for your biological filter to remove the non toxic ammonia.

 

Correct, Prime does not add ammonia from the product...it can "create" non harmful ammonia from chloramines (if they are present in your tap water). Someone with chlroamines in their tap water, suing prime and doing WC every day or every other day are very likely to get what I would consider ammonia readings....you might no be giving enough time for your biological filter to remove the non toxic ammonia.

I thought it was the ammonia being converted to less harmful ammonium. I had never heard of the chloramines being turned into non harmful ammonia.......

 

I would add a sponge filter or another filter and keep everything else the same. Seed the new filter with some media from old filter. Monitor and keep us posted.

 

I thought it was the ammonia being converted to less harmful ammonium. I had never heard of the chloramines being turned into non harmful ammonia.......

Prime does several things including removing chlorine and chloramines and detoxification of nitrite nitrate and ammonia. Chloramines=Chlorine+Ammonia, the way prime "removes" chloramines is by unbinding the two elements in chloramines, from here the the chlorine is removed by converting it into non toxic chloride ions, and the ammonia is "detoxfified" into ammonium (NH4)

 

Idk if I am missing it , but I don't see any details regarding her fish tank ( filter model or sizer, filter media) etc etc...this would help to make additional recommendations.

 

Prime does several things including removing chlorine and chloramines and detoxification of nitrite nitrate and ammonia. Chloramines=Chlorine+Ammonia, the way prime "removes" chloramines is by unbinding the two elements in chloramines, from here the the chlorine is removed by converting it into non toxic chloride ions, and the ammonia is "detoxfified" into ammonium (NH4)

Yes. I just went to the seachem website to get a better understanding. I was confusing converting and binding. It appears the binder-ing process is what ultimately does the converting? I don't know. But I learned something new today. Even though it still confuses me....


From the website
"Prime® also contains a binder which renders ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate non-toxic. It is very important to understand how those two functions work together. All dechlorinators operate through a chemical process known as reduction. In this process, toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3)."

 

It is also worth noting that when using prime and doing water changes directly in your fish tank, you need to add prime before the tap water. If you add the water first and then prime, Chlorine and Chloramines can easily kill stuff in your tank, specially a small one, including your filter bacteria creating spikes of ammonia. It might sound obvious, but I have seen a few people not doing this correctly.

 

This website gives such poor advice, prime doesn’t create “false” readings, cycling your tank is an easy process, fish-in cycles are simple as sticking a few skirt tetras in, dosing prime everyday and let nature run its course on your filter. Your tank WILL cycle.

 

This website gives such poor advice, prime doesn’t create “false” readings, cycling your tank is an easy process, fish-in cycles are simple as sticking a few skirt tetras in, dosing prime everyday and let nature run its course on your filter. Your tank WILL cycle.

I would suggest reading the entire thread...if you change water daily using prime and have chloramines in your tap water you will get a "false" ammonia reading because it doesn't have to do anything with the nitrogen cycle in your tank, you are introducing ammonia every day....
A poor advise is to do a cycle with fish... this user has been running the tank since March, 5 months later she still gets ammonia readings which probably have another source other than finishing the initial nitrogen cycle (can be form the water changes, under filtration, overfeeding, overstock, etc, etc...)

 

As long as you are using Prime to bind the ammonia You can skip the water change for that day. If it doesn't go over .5 at any time you can go for up to a week without changing the water as long as you add prime at least every other day.

Prime is first and foremost a water conditioner. It does nothing to help cycle a tank so is not needed to speed the process along. The reason I personally recommend it is because it not only removes the chlorine and some heavy metals but it also binds up low amounts of ammonia thus protects your fish from that lingering ammonia.

At this point in your cycle you should be to the point of only having to do weekly water changes. I know there are those that will not agree with me but this in one more time I read that someone has a lingering low amount of ammonia long after using Stability. I don't know why it happens but it happens too often just to dismiss it out of hand.

Wow. I wish I could have talked to you months ago!! I didn't know I could just add the Prime without a WC. I know that sounds dumb, but I thought I was to only add it when replacing or adding water. I will certainly start doing this. Thank you!!!

Prime does several things including removing chlorine and chloramines and detoxification of nitrite nitrate and ammonia. Chloramines=Chlorine+Ammonia, the way prime "removes" chloramines is by unbinding the two elements in chloramines, from here the the chlorine is removed by converting it into non toxic chloride ions, and the ammonia is "detoxfified" into ammonium (NH4)

I'm glad you all understand this stuff! It feels a bit over my head. Thanks for the education!

 

Wow. I wish I could have talked to you months ago!! I didn't know I could just add the Prime without a WC. I know that sounds dumb, but I thought I was to only add it when replacing or adding water. I will certainly start doing this. Thank you!!!

You are very welcome. Hopefully this cycle will soon be behind you and you can finally relax and just enjoy your tank. There will still be weekly upkeep but maintenance is a lot less stressful than the cycling process.