What Do You Think About Hybrid Fish?

CaptainAquatics

Member
Hi! I currently have two “hybrid” cichlids. I have a flowerhorn and a Blood Parrot Cichlid. I don’t have a problem with hybrids individually as fish, so I don’t mind having them and my Blood Parrot is actually my favorite fish. I know some people have issues with hybrids and I want to know why. I under stand it can cause deformities but if the fish can live happily I don’t see a problem with it. I think it’s cruel when people don’t give the hybrids a fair chance at life because they “don’t support” the copanies. I understand that when you buy a hybrid it will give the companies money but what about that fish. It will not survive if it doesn’t have a good home and are you really willing to kill a fish just because you don’t want to “support” a company. Let me know your guys opinions.
 

maggie thecat

Member
Mixed. A hybrid fish has no place in the wider world. On the one hand that might save a wild fish from over capture. On the other hand, if some day they make fishkeeping illegal, what's going to happen to them?

Pluses and minuses.
 

Fashooga

Member
I'm actually ok with them, but some of the hybrids are terrible, the blood parrot flower horn mix is one ugly fish. Whoever thought that combo would work ought to be put in prison as a menace to society.
 

Accents

Member
I think if they're so deformed that they can't function, it's unethical, as is the case with some blood parrots. If they can live fine, I don't really see a problem with it. (For example, some blood parrots will live perfectly fine and even defend themselves with a messed-up mouth. I know mine can do that.) I think the main issue is that when there is a hybrid, people tend to just do whatever they want with it, such as chopping off their tails, dyeing them, etc, and that seems to happen more with man-made fish than other ones.
 

Aquaman9101

Member
As long as the animals are healthy and clearly labelled if sold, I'm indifferent. For exsmple, lots of CA hybrid cichlids are fine specimens that sometimes even surpass their ancestors in beauty and health.
 

DoubleDutch

Member
I don't like hybrids and don't understand why humans aren't satisfied with the awesome creatures Mother Nature made herself. Btw that also counts for linebrwd colormorphs, genetic altered or dyed fish btw.
 
  • Moderator

ryanr

Moderator
Member
I draw the line at dyed fish, but that's a separate topic
Hybrids are always contentious. Whether it's fish, humans or other animals, and even plants and fruit/vegetables.

I think it's quite interesting to see what science, and in some regards nature, can come up with. That's not me condoning animal experimentation, but more the "happy accidents" are quite interesting. In some regards, it's kind of the Theory of Evolution in a way (Don't go off at me, just trying to make an analogy), like the way some live-bearers have been known to cross pollinate.

Off-topic, but even selective breeding has its dangers.

As long as the animal is healthy and doesn't suffer, I don't have a particular problem with it.

Pretty interesting list of hybrids (some natural, some man made) List of genetic hybrids - Wikipedia
 

Aquaman9101

Member
DoubleDutch said:
I don't like hybrids and don't understand why humans aren't satisfied with the awesome creatures Mother Nature made herself. Btw that also counts for linebrwd colormorphs, genetic altered or dyed fish btw.
You do make a good point. However, we cannot claI'm to be naturalists, for we often clump together animals and plants who would never encounter one another with fake ornaments in a clear box. I do admit that there are plenty of selections of natural creatures, however, and hybridasation/line breeding are unnecessary.
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Aquaman9101 said:
You do make a good point. However, we cannot claI'm to be naturalists, for we often clump together animals and plants who would never encounter one another with fake ornaments in a clear box. I do admit that there are plenty of selections of natural creatures, however, and hybridasation/line breeding are unnecessary.
I don't claI'm to be a naturalist.
 

Aquaman9101

Member
DoubleDutch said:
I don't claI'm to be a naturalist.
Sorry, nevermind the naturalist remark (for lack of a better word). What I should have said is that while I do agree with you with certain points, I do not agree completely. I apologise if I insulted you.
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Aquaman9101 said:
Sorry, nevermind the naturalist remark (for lack of a better word). What I should have said is that while I do agree with you with certain points, I do not agree completely. I apologise if I insulted you.
Oh no you didn't hahaha.
But opinions were asked and I gave mine hahaha. No one has to agree with my opinion (There will be a lot that don't).
 

Fanatic

Member
I do not own any hybrid fish, only single species, even my bettas as well.
 

H Farnsworth

Member
It depends on the hybrid some hybrids result in sterile offspring and other genetic effects but there are occasions when hybrids produce really strong offspring. This is called hybrid vigor and its really hit or miss.
 

Momgoose56

Member
H Farnsworth said:
It depends on the hybrid some hybrids result in sterile offspring and other genetic effects but there are occasions when hybrids produce really strong offspring. This is called hybrid vigor and its really hit or miss.
Mules for one.
 

Massalo85

Member
Fish have existed for 100's of millions if not billions of years they are all hybrids most happen overtime in the wild some are from human intervention. I don't see an issue with them has long as they are healthy.
 

Rtessy

Member
Fanatic said:
I do not own any hybrid fish, only single species, even my bettas as well.
Well, your betta's are a hybrid species. Hybrids of splendens, imbellis, and smaragdina, if not more.
That's one thing I don't get; most people don't seem to count the "tamer" looking hybrids as actual hybrids, even if they do have serious health problems due to either the hybridization or domestication.
I'm indifferent, if I like the way a fish looks, then I like it. I like the way some hybrids look, I don't like the way other hybrids look. Since we have so many hybridized species now, it doesn't matter to me much
 

Fanatic

Member
Rtessy said:
Well, your betta's are a hybrid species. Hybrids of splendens, imbellis, and smaragdina, if not more.
That's one thing I don't get; most people don't seem to count the "tamer" looking hybrids as actual hybrids, even if they do have serious health problems due to either the hybridization or domestication.
I'm indifferent, if I like the way a fish looks, then I like it. I like the way some hybrids look, I don't like the way other hybrids look. Since we have so many hybridized species now, it doesn't matter to me much
I was referring more to hybrid fish such as long fin neons, or long fin tetras, not a fish branched off from another species.
 

Rtessy

Member
Fanatic said:
I was referring more to hybrid fish such as long fin neons, or long fin tetras, not a fish branched off from another species.
Well those are selectively bred fish, not hybrid fish. A hybrid is a cross of one or more species. And technically the common domesticated betta is a longfin, so I'm not sure your statement is quite true
 

Coptapia

Member
Massalo85 said:
Fish have existed for 100's of millions if not billions of years they are all hybrids most happen overtime in the wild some are from human intervention. I don't see an issue with them has long as they are healthy.
Most fish are not hybrids at all. Hybridisation is uncommon in nature.
 

A201

Member
I really wasn't wild about Hybrids and wasn't interested in keeping one until I happened upon a 1" Red Texas FH. I made a hasty impulsive buy, not totally thinking out long term housing plans. Within a few months he grew to 4" and began to go Central American on his African Cichlid tankmates. He now resides in his semI private 65 gal. tank. Located in my wife's art studio. I've come to accept Hybrids, but still prefer pure bloods. BTW, the Red Texas FH is currently 10" long.
 

H Farnsworth

Member
Good looking fish
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Rtessy said:
Well, your betta's are a hybrid species. Hybrids of splendens, imbellis, and smaragdina, if not more.
That's one thing I don't get; most people don't seem to count the "tamer" looking hybrids as actual hybrids, even if they do have serious health problems due to either the hybridization or domestication.
I'm indifferent, if I like the way a fish looks, then I like it. I like the way some hybrids look, I don't like the way other hybrids look. Since we have so many hybridized species now, it doesn't matter to me much
Then they are called crossbreeds and not hybrids. A different thing.
 

Coptapia

Member
DoubleDutch said:
Then they are called crossbreeds and not hybrids. A different thing.
Different in what way?

Dictionary definition of crossbreed...
“an animal or plant produced by mating or hybridizing two different species, breeds, or varieties.”
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Coptapia said:
Different in what way?

Dictionary definition of crossbreed...
“an animal or plant produced by mating or hybridizing two different species, breeds, or varieties.”
Ok. I must be wrong then.
I always though a hybrid was two different genus or animals (a lion × a tiger) crossed.

So all our "common" BN's, horses, sheep, dogs etc.... are hybrids ? I always believed they were crossbreds.
 

Coptapia

Member
A hybrid is a cross between two different species. They can be in the same genus...
In my mind a crossbreed involves one species, like dog varieties for example...


...but by definition I think the two terms mean the same...
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Isn't a Red parrot Amphilophus citrinellus x Paraneetroplus synspilus? That is what I thought was a hybrid.
 

Coptapia

Member
DoubleDutch said:
Isn't a Red parrot Amphilophus citrinellus x Paraneetroplus synspilus? That is what I thought was a hybrid.
Yes, Red Devil (or Midevil?) x Vieja melanura... probably.

Platies and Swords... hybrids from same genus.
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Then indeed all our BN's are hybrids hahaha.
 

Redshark1

Member
If we are going to produce hybrids for our own amusement, we better ensure the species that produce them survive in the wild.

Only living in the wild gives the natural selection pressures that ensure fitness.
 

Coptapia

Member
Redshark1 said:
If we are going to produce hybrids for our own amusement, we better ensure the species that produce them survive in the wild.

Only living in the wild gives the natural selection pressures that ensure fitness.
Playing devil’s advocate here... things have changed for those fish. Man made hybrids don’t exist in the wild (well some do). Their selection pressures are now those of aquarium life, and they are proving for the most part that they have the fitness required, and living in the wild can’t help them with the new captive pressures.
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Are Flowerhorns or Red Parrots able to lay viable eggs / have their own fry ?
 

Nikki2577

Member
DoubleDutch said:
Are Flowerhorns or Red Parrots able to lay viable eggs / have their own fry ?
Yes
 

Brizburk

Member
I like them! We humans breed all sorts of wild animals and turn them into pets usually through some sort of hybridization... I love blood parrots and want one some day. Currently keep nanos.
 

Coptapia

Member
DoubleDutch said:
Are Flowerhorns or Red Parrots able to lay viable eggs / have their own fry ?
Dunno about flowerhorns, but Parrot females are fertile while most males are infertile. You get an occasional male that can do the job.
 

Redshark1

Member
Coptapia said:
Playing devil’s advocate here... things have changed for those fish. Man made hybrids don’t exist in the wild (well some do). Their selection pressures are now those of aquarium life, and they are proving for the most part that they have the fitness required, and living in the wild can’t help them with the new captive pressures.
Playing devil's advocate here. When your stupid hybridising human race is finally extinct so too are your hybrid fish. Wild fish live on, yay!!!
 

Coptapia

Member
Redshark1 said:
Playing devil's advocate here. When your stupid hybridising human race is finally extinct so too are your hybrid fish. Wild fish live on, yay!!!
Sorry to break it to you but “my” stupid human race will not go extinct.
 

Redshark1

Member
You are in denial as always. You are well on your way to extinction already and you are unwilling to turn back despite having this knowledge.

I'm not too sure on your theory about hybrid fish being fit either. I think you are on shaky ground there. Some of these hybrids seem particularly unfit compared to wild fish e.g. the Blood Parrot has a dodgy spine, gills, mouth need I go on?

Extinct. That's your theory right there.
 

Coptapia

Member
Redshark1 said:
You are in denial as always. You are well on your way to extinction already and you are unwilling to turn back despite having this knowledge.

I'm not too sure on your theory about hybrid fish being fit either. I think you are on shaky ground there. Some of these hybrids seem particularly unfit compared to wild fish e.g. the Blood Parrot has a dodgy spine, gills, mouth need I go on?

Extinct. That's your theory right there.
Really??? I am “always in denial”? Well you obviously know me better than I do, so you obviously know my opinions about all things.

Yes please go on. Tell us why the blood parrot is not well adapted to life in an aquarium.

You seem to have quite a big issue with my opinions. Why is that?
 

Rtessy

Member
Coptapia said:
Sorry to break it to you but “my” stupid human race will not go extinct.
Well, I think that's a bit presumptuous. The heat death of the universe will kill everything
Plus, we'll probably turn into a new species soon too, evolution just keeps on going.
 

Redshark1

Member
Because you said you were playing devil's advocate? Why are you not playing all of a sudden? Don't you know the meaning of your own words?

In common parlance, the term devil's advocate describes someone who, given a certain point of view, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with (or simply an alternative position from the accepted norm), for the sake of debate or to explore the thought further.
 

Coptapia

Member
Rtessy said:
Well, I think that's a bit presumptuous. The heat death of the universe will kill everything
Plus, we'll probably turn into a new species soon too, evolution just keeps on going.
Turning into a new species is survival, not extinction.
 

Rtessy

Member
Coptapia said:
Turning into a new species is survival, not extinction.
Depends on the definition I think, as technically our species will be extinct and a new one will take our place. I believe it is both progress and extinction.
 

Coptapia

Member
Redshark1 said:
Because you said you were playing devil's advocate? Why are you not playing all of a sudden? Don't you know the meaning of your own words?

In common parlance, the term devil's advocate describes someone who, given a certain point of view, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with (or simply an alternative position from the accepted norm), for the sake of debate or to explore the thought further.
Jeez, what are you smoking today? I hate hybrids. I was playing devils advocate in saying that they don’t need to be fit for life in the wild, because they’re not in the wild.

Your attempts to get me worked up are not working btw. You’d need to be a lot more abrasive than that.
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Guys we are allowed to have our opinions don't we? I don't like (man made) hybrids for a bit and I don't like man made colorvariaties as well. Just my opinion.
l think Mother Nature did a great job with the beautiful natural fish.
 

Demeter

Member
GMO, fish bred for physical deformities and otherwise dyed fish are a no-go for me. Crossbreeds are fine so long as they’re not being sold as a pure species. I myself have mutt African cichlids that are perfectly healthy and look beautiful. Some I raised on accident, others on purpose. Let’s not forget the ever popular betta splendens, a man made species.

A fish is a fish and I will treat hybrids like any other.
 

Coptapia

Member
Demeter said:
Let’s not forget the ever popular betta splendens, a man made species.
Betta splendens is not a man made species. It existed in nature and we discovered it. It still exists in the wild. All we’ve done is produce longer fins, different colours etc, by line breeding and hybridising with other Betta species.
 

Demeter

Member
Coptapia said:
Betta splendens is not a man made species. It existed in nature and we discovered it. It still exists in the wild. All we’ve done is produce longer fins, different colours etc, by line breeding and hybridising with other Betta species.
From my understanding, the colors and fin lengths were created by mixing different species (hybridization yes?) and selective breeding. So in reality, the pet store bettas should not be called betta splendens at all then.
 

DoubleDutch

Member
Demeter said:
From my understanding, the colors and fin lengths were created by mixing different species (hybridization yes?) and selective breeding. So in reality, the pet store bettas should not be called betta splendens at all then.
Betta cf splendens?
 

Coptapia

Member
Demeter said:
From my understanding, the colors and fin lengths were created by mixing different species (hybridization yes?) and selective breeding. So in reality, the pet store bettas should not be called betta splendens at all then.
Agreed, and by the same rules domestic varieties of Platies and Swordtails shouldn’t be called those either...
 

Rtessy

Member
Coptapia said:
No. Our species is changing imperceptibly over time. That’s how evolution usually works. The “new one that will take our place” will be us, evolved.
Yes, but it's still not us, therefore we and our species is dead. Extinct. Yes it evolved, but into a different species, and while it is a continuation, the old species is still technically extinct.
 

Most photos, videos and links are disabled if you are not logged in.

Log in or register to view

Top Bottom