What do I do after my tank is cycled?

I have researched, but I'm finding conflicting info. I am officially cycled. After adding 4ppm of liquid ammonia, my 24hr results are:
ammonia: 0ppm
nitrite :0ppm
nitrate : 40ppm

I don't plan to get fish for a week or two. So what do I do?
Do I continuing dosing to 4ppm?
How often? Every day, every few days?

 

You have decomposing stuff (leaves etc) in the tank, right? Then do nothing, maybe add some extra leaf litter and do a waterchange to bring Nitrates down to below 20 just before introducing lifestock.

 

You have decomposing stuff (leaves etc) in the tank, right? Then do nothing, maybe add some extra leaf litter and do a waterchange to bring Nitrates down to below 20 just before introducing lifestock.

I have 5 guava leaves and a samrong pod. Really? I don't need to add anything? I won't kill of the BB in the next couple weeks? Interesting.

 

Yes I would continue feeding with ammonia but to 2ppm. Also start adding fish food.

 

I have 5 guava leaves and a samrong pod. Really? I don't need to add anything? I won't kill of the BB in the next couple weeks? Interesting.

I usually use botanicals instead of ammonia. The stuff is bioload. Double it, make sure all is aerated well and that's it.
Within a week the filter organisms won't die off.

 

Yes if your already using leaves the ammonia isn’t needed. But the fish food will help.

 

Wow, thank you both. Sounds great! I've been adding a lot of ammonia over the last month.
Also, I should expect my ph to stabilize now, right? It usually starts at 7.6 after a water change, and a week later I'm sitting at 7.2

 

Wow, thank you both. Sounds great! I've been adding a lot of ammonia over the last month.

As you added much too little botanicals to cycle that was completely right. But to keep an established filter flora alive the botanicals will do the trick.

Also, I should expect my ph to stabilize now, right? It usually starts at 7.6 after a water change, and a week later I'm sitting at 7.2

Ammonia is a base, so the addition of ammonia raises pH. Nitrate on the other hand is dissolved in water as nitric acid, accordingly lowering pH.

Where exactly your pH will settle depends on the KH reading. Usually it's a bit below the tap level.

 

As you added much too little botanicals to cycle that was completely right. But to keep an established filter flora alive the botanicals will do the trick.


Ammonia is a base, so the addition of ammonia raises pH. Nitrate on the other hand is dissolved in water as nitric acid, accordingly lowering pH.

Where exactly your pH will settle depends on the KH reading. Usually it's a bit below the tap level.

I see! My nitrates have been pretty high. Up close to 80 or more at times during the cycle. I've done some water changes. My tap kh is 6. My tank is 3 and a week later is 1-2

 

My tap kh is 6. My tank is 3 and a week later is 1-2

Allright, you are firmly in soft water territory. Keep the humic substances coming (addition every second week is important) and let the botanical mulm accumulate.
Please keep in mind the pH tests will not work properly once the KH moves below 2°. So expect erratic results and don't get unnerved by those. Long term get a TDS meter and control only TDS and EC regularly while testing nitrates only if plants show deficiencies and pH only if the animals start acting weird.

 

Allright, you are firmly in soft water territory.

Does it matter if my gh stays around 6-8? I know gh doesn't directly affect ph.

Keep the humic substances coming (addition every second week is important) and let the botanical mulm accumulate.

When you say humic substances, you are referring to the botanicals I had added, correct? Also, is mulm all waste, including poop, or just plant break down? I'm not sure I even have any mulm yet.

Please keep in mind the pH tests will not work properly once the KH moves below 2°. So expect erratic results and don't get unnerved by those.

So it's possible my ph is stable, I'm just not getting stable results due to a change in kh? I should go look over my results. I've been keeping a log of all my test results as it has been cycling. *OK, I looked at my results. The ph drops once the kh hits 2.

Long term get a TDS meter and control only TDS and EC regularly while testing nitrates only if plants show deficiencies and pH only if the animals start acting weird.

Is the TDS supposed to show me how much carbonate is in the water?

 

Does it matter if my gh stays around 6-8? I know gh doesn't directly affect ph.

No, that's pretty much irrelevant.

When you say humic substances, you are referring to the botanicals I had added, correct?

Humic substances are organic acids. The stuff people often call wrongly "tannins", that colour the water dark. It doesn't take much, but as it breaks down as any organic compounds they have to be added again regularly.

Also, is mulm all waste, including poop, or just plant break down?

Everything, yes. With a good base amount of botanical mulm the feces break down so fast, there is no need to remove any. A good mulm layer might not be sightly to everybody but it keeps the tank healthy.

So it's possible my ph is stable, I'm just not getting stable results due to a change in kh? I should go look over my results. I've been keeping a log of all my test results as it has been cycling.

pH drip tests do not test the actual carbonate but the overall acid capacity. It includes carbonates, though. So with KH below 2° the total amount of buffering material is so low the pH test is inconclusive. The KH test schould still work just fine. The only halfway reliable way to measure pH in that circumstances would be to use a pH meter, which I find too error prone unless using one of the pricyer ones.

Is the TDS supposed to show me how much carbonate is in the water?

No. The T stands for Total. It measures all dissolved solids in the water. But as things (like carbonates, acids, organic carbon, nitrates and other stuff) accumulate so the TDS rises. If you know what they are composed of you can tell a lot about the state of the tanks chemistry.
So when you take GH and KH in mg/l (= ppm), Nitrates and e.g. fertilizers you soon know the ideal TDS level of your tank at which everything should work smoothely.

 

No, that's pretty much irrelevant.

Humic substances are organic acids. The stuff people often call wrongly "tannins", that colour the water dark. It doesn't take much, but as it breaks down as any organic compounds they have to be added again regularly.

Ok, I see! So I should add more humic substances every two weeks. How often should I keep each set in the tank? 2 weeks? A couple months? I'm assuming I can eventually take them out so there's not tons of them......

Everything, yes. With a good base amount of botanical mulm the feces break down so fast, there is no need to remove any. A good mulm layer might not be sightly to everybody but it keeps the tank healthy.

Wow, so I should never vacuum the substrate? I don't think it will look too unsightly having the plant substrate in the tank. Does it matter if I only have 4 plants right now?

pH drip tests do not test the actual carbonate but the overall acid capacity. It includes carbonates, though. So with KH below 2° the total amount of buffering material is so low the pH test is inconclusive. The KH test schould still work just fine. The only halfway reliable way to measure pH in that circumstances would be to use a pH meter, which I find too error prone unless using one of the pricyer ones.

No. The T stands for Total. It measures all dissolved solids in the water. But as things (like carbonates, acids, organic carbon, nitrates and other stuff) accumulate so the TDS rises. If you know what they are composed of you can tell a lot about the state of the tanks chemistry.
So when you take GH and KH in mg/l (= ppm), Nitrates and e.g. fertilizers you soon know the ideal TDS level of your tank at which everything should work smoothely.

Thank you so much for all your help over the last month! I'm getting closer to figuring my tank out.

 

So I should add more humic substances every two weeks.

Roughly. Takes some experimenting.

How often should I keep each set in the tank? 2 weeks? A couple months? I'm assuming I can eventually take them out so there's not tons of them......

Erm... I leave leaves in the tank indefinitely. Until they decompose to mulm. Bigger botanicals like seed pods you can add every few months. You can also make extracts from alder cones and rooibos tea (only rooibos without any additives, never use real tea!) and add that brew.
Also I'm assuming you mistake the botanicals for the humic substances. The substances are what leaches from the botanicals and stains the water.

Wow, so I should never vacuum the substrate? I don't think it will look too unsightly having the plant substrate in the tank. Does it matter if I only have 4 plants right now?

Oh wait... you are using soil? And have barely any plants? That is a problem, as you have added much more nutrients than necessary to the tank. Stock up on plants asap. Fast growers, floaters, unfuzzy plants. Hydrocotyle leucocephala, Ceratophyllum, Egeria, Elodea, Salvinia, Limnobium.
Also the soil is lowering your KH. It loses that property over time. Another reason to keep an eye on the parameters.

 

Roughly. Takes some experimenting.

Erm... I leave leaves in the tank indefinitely. Until they decompose to mulm. Bigger botanicals like seed pods you can add every few months. You can also make extracts from alder cones and rooibos tea (only rooibos without any additives, never use real tea!) and add that brew.
Also I'm assuming you mistake the botanicals for the humic substances. The substances are what leaches from the botanicals and stains the water.

Oh wait... you are using soil? And have barely any plants? That is a problem, as you have added much more nutrients than necessary to the tank. Stock up on plants asap. Fast growers, floaters, unfuzzy plants. Hydrocotyle leucocephala, Ceratophyllum, Egeria, Elodea, Salvinia, Limnobium.
Also the soil is lowering your KH. It loses that property over time. Another reason to keep an eye on the parameters.

Yes, but it's used soil. The person I bought my used tank from used the soil for a while first. It's still in the little ball form. Also, I don't have any plants in the soil. 3 of them are glued to rocks or branches, and the Amazon sword is in a glass bowl. I have 1 Amazon sword, 1 anubias, and 2 java ferns. I have some scarlet temple, but I don't think it's going to make it. My tank is too low tech (low lighting, and no co2).

So if I don't have enough plants, do I slow down on botanicals?

Should I wait to add fish for a while, until things level out? The first fish I'm getting are harlequin rasboras.

 

Normally, a tank is considered cycled if it will process 2 ppm of ammonia in 24 hours. The reason your nitrates are 40 ppm is that you used 4 ppm of ammonia. Be sure to do a water change before adding fish to lower the nitrate level.

Remember that converting ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate is only part of the nitrogen cycle. Fish do not produce ammonia. They produce a variety of waste products including urea. The urea has to be converted to ammonia. This is done by another group of beneficial bacteria. Since you already have some organic waste in the tank, these bacteria should be developing as well. However, you can encourage the growth of these bacteria by adding a pinch of fish food to the tank each day. This will keep the nitrogen cycle in good shape, ready for fish.

Once you start adding fish food, you no longer need to add ammonia to the tank.

Good job and good luck with your fish!

 

Normally, a tank is considered cycled if it will process 2 ppm of ammonia in 24 hours. The reason your nitrates are 40 ppm is that you used 4 ppm of ammonia. Be sure to do a water change before adding fish to lower the nitrate level.

Oh, wow. I did 4ppm because I had read it was better for tanks of 40g. I hope it's not a bad thing I did that, other than the nitrates of course. And yes! I absolutely will be doing a water change or two!

Remember that converting ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate is only part of the nitrogen cycle. Fish do not produce ammonia. They produce a variety of waste products including urea. The urea has to be converted to ammonia. This is done by another group of beneficial bacteria. Since you already have some organic waste in the tank, these bacteria should be developing as well. However, you can encourage the growth of these bacteria by adding a pinch of fish food to the tank each day. This will keep the nitrogen cycle in good shape, ready for fish.

Ahhhh......interesting! Thanks.

Once you start adding fish food, you no longer need to add ammonia to the tank.

Good job and good luck with your fish!

I REALLY appreciate it. I'm overwhelmed with it all often. I just want to provide the best home I can to my fish!

 

Yes, but it's used soil. The person I bought my used tank from used the soil for a while first. It's still in the little ball form.

I remember... For the future, use only sand.

Also, I don't have any plants in the soil. 3 of them are glued to rocks or branches, and the Amazon sword is in a glass bowl.

Put the Echinodorus in the substrate. Anubias and Microsorum are pretty slow growers, they won't use much nutrients, the other plant isn't either, so you will need much more plant mass to make use of all the nutrients. Nutrient surplus is a good base for algae and bacteria blooms. Neither is necessarily bad, but among those cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) might turn up and that is the only type of microorganism even I say has to be removed from a tank.
I have no experience with Alternanthera as I consider it a plant for high tech planted tanks, not for the low tech stuff I do.

Once you start adding fish food, you no longer need to add ammonia to the tank.

With leaf litter and botanicals fish food isn't necessary. It just decomposes quicker releasing more nutrients in an already nutrient overloaded tank. The dead plant material has less active but more constant decomposition.

 

Oh, wow. I did 4ppm because I had read it was better for tanks of 40g. I hope it's not a bad thing I did that, other than the nitrates of course. And yes! I absolutely will be doing a water change or two!

Ahhhh......interesting! Thanks.

I REALLY appreciate it. I'm overwhelmed with it all often. I just want to provide the best home I can to my fish!

Just remember that all of these are natural processes. For a long as fish have been swimming around in water, bacteria have been doing their thing. It is only when fishkeepers started doing fishless cycling did things become overwhelming. When I started over six decades ago, nobody worried about the nitrogen cycle. There were no bottled bacteria. There were no ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kits. We could test for pH, but that was about it. We would purchase a couple of inexpensive, hardy fish, put them in dechlorinated water, and start feeding them. After the bacteria started to do their thing, you would add a few fish at a time until a suitable stocking level was reached,

Somewhere I read that fish keepers are obsessed with developing the biofilter in their aquaria while the reality is that over time the biofilter will develop no matter what you do. Because the bacteria are all around us, it is impossible to avoid developing a biofilter unless you are adding disinfectants to kill the bacteria.

With leaf litter and botanicals fish food isn't necessary. It just decomposes quicker releasing more nutrients in an already nutrient overloaded tank. The dead plant material has less active but more constant decomposition.

That may be true, but the plant material does not contain the full complement of proteins that are found in fish food. Once fish are added to the tank, you will be feeding them fish food, so I prefer using fish food as the nitrogen source.

Some people are vegetarians, or even vegans, but I prefer a carnivore diet.

 

That may be true, but the plant material does not contain the full complement of proteins that are found in fish food. Once fish are added to the tank, you will be feeding them fish food, so I prefer using fish food as the nitrogen source.

The bacteria, archaeans and fungi won't mind, as they also die and decompose in the biofilms, producing protein in the process, which they use themselves in turn. Adding too much to a developing food network overdoes it, I think.

 

The bacteria, archaeans and fungi won't mind, as they also die and decompose in the biofilms, producing protein in the process, which they use themselves in turn. Adding too much to a developing food network overdoes it, I think.

Moderation in all things. I agree, adding too much is harmful. I usually add only a pinch.

 

I remember... For the future, use only sand.

Put the Echinodorus in the substrate. Anubias and Microsorum are pretty slow growers, they won't use much nutrients, the other plant isn't either, so you will need much more plant mass to make use of all the nutrients. Nutrient surplus is a good base for algae and bacteria blooms. Neither is necessarily bad, but among those cyanobacteria (blue-green algae) might turn up and that is the only type of microorganism even I say has to be removed from a tank.
I have no experience with Alternanthera as I consider it a plant for high tech planted tanks, not for the low tech stuff I do.

I didn't put the Echinodorus in the substrate because I didn't want the roots covering the entire bottom.
Should I stop fertilizing with liquid fert and root tabs? And should I hold off on more botanicals until I get more plants? I also have brown algae starting.

With leaf litter and botanicals fish food isn't necessary. It just decomposes quicker releasing more nutrients in an already nutrient overloaded tank. The dead plant material has less active but more constant decomposition.

Just remember that all of these are natural processes. For a long as fish have been swimming around in water, bacteria have been doing their thing. It is only when fishkeepers started doing fishless cycling did things become overwhelming. When I started over six decades ago, nobody worried about the nitrogen cycle. There were no bottled bacteria. There were no ammonia, nitrite and nitrate test kits. We could test for pH, but that was about it. We would purchase a couple of inexpensive, hardy fish, put them in dechlorinated water, and start feeding them. After the bacteria started to do their thing, you would add a few fish at a time until a suitable stocking level was reached,

That's crazy. That definitely sounds easier. I think I over worry because I see so many people online suddenly losing their whole tank. I'm sure it's less common than I think, and that I am just seeing a lot because people come online when they have a problem.
Honestly, I may hold off on the harlequins for a bit, or really any fish. I may just focus on getting more plants and learning more before I add the fish. I understand most of what you two are sharing, but I am definitely missing some pieces.

Somewhere I read that fish keepers are obsessed with developing the biofilter in their aquaria while the reality is that over time the biofilter will develop no matter what you do. Because the bacteria are all around us, it is impossible to avoid developing a biofilter unless you are adding disinfectants to kill the bacteria.


That may be true, but the plant material does not contain the full complement of proteins that are found in fish food. Once fish are added to the tank, you will be feeding them fish food, so I prefer using fish food as the nitrogen source.

Some people are vegetarians, or even vegans, but I prefer a carnivore diet.

I didn't put the Echinodorus in the substrate because I didn't want the roots covering the entire bottom.
Should I stop fertilizing with liquid fert and root tabs? And should I hold off on more botanicals until I get more plants? I also have brown algae starting.


That's crazy. That definitely sounds easier. I think I over worry because I see so many people online suddenly losing their whole tank. I'm sure it's less common than I think, and that I am just seeing a lot because people come online when they have a problem.
Honestly, I may hold off on the harlequins for a bit, or really any fish. I may just focus on getting more plants and learning more before I add the fish. I understand most of what you two are sharing, but I am definitely missing some pieces.

Also, is it possible the wood, leaves, and pod are lowering the ph throughout the week? If so, Is that change bad for the fish? From 7.6-7.2 in a week. Also, I apologize if I'm mixing all of this up. I'm trying hard to grasp the chemistry of it all. I'm watching videos, reading articles, etc.