What Breed Is My New Goldfish?

RoseLorek
  • #1
Yesterday I went to a real nice upscale fish store with my husband and ended up buying a really beautiful calico telescope. Only thing is he looks different from your average telescope. most telescopes i've seen have similar tails to fantails, maybe even shorter but this one had the longest tail out of any of the others in the tank! Also I haven't found another telescope like him on google. I'm really fascinated with the breeds or all my fish (even though I know they're all goldfish at the end of the day) but I know you can interbreed them and get mixures. Does anyone out there have any idea what this telescope could have in it? Or is it just chance it has a much longer tail than average? I've included a picture of a normal telescope i've found and mine which is the calico one, Thanks!
 

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Goldiemom
  • #2
It’s a very beautiful veil tail. Enjoy!
 
RoseLorek
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
It’s a very beautiful veil tail. Enjoy!
That's what I thought when I looked up the different types of fish, is it possible one of it's parents had the gene or actually was a veil tail?
 
Goldiemom
  • #4
That's what I thought when I looked up the different types of fish, is it possible one of it's parents had the gene or actually was a veil tail?
Probably a parent was one. I have 2 and they get more beautiful with age.
 
mjfromga
  • #5
A TRUE veiltail is very rare. It isn't forked like this fishes tail and the fish look nothing like this one. Have a look...


This fish has what appears to be fused caudal fins, asymmetric eyes, a weak peduncle not suited for such a tail, a weak leading dorsal ray, a mostly red calico pattern that lacks the proper blues, and no body depth whatsoever.

By definition, this fish is a calico telescope eye. He definitely is *NOT* a veiltail. He simply has long fins.

There are usually many fish in a spawn with fins that are too long. Those fins will likely cause swimming issues later down the line. His unbalanced finnage isn't a good thing. Good breeders cull fish like this one, which is why you find them at pet stores.

With that said, he's a cute little guy and may develop into something beautiful.
 
Goldiemom
  • #6
We do use the term veil tail quite often these days. If you go by standards, it may not be a true veil tail but If you look up pics of veil tails it definitely is. When they say no fork they are referring to the edges of the tail. For show purposes, we would have to stick to the breed standards but most of us are in the hobby for enjoyment, not showing. Perhaps in my 50 years of raising goldfish something has changed recently?
 
mjfromga
  • #7
Just because people label long finned fish a certain thing on GOOGLE doesn't mean they actually fit the standard. I saw tons of fish labeled veiltails that don't fit the breed standard at all. That is why I provided the origin link to the actual show based variety of fish.

America has done much harm to the true breed standards of fish and we are quick to think we are correct over other countries and standards when we are wrong. This fish is not a veiltail. It just isn't. Doesn't fit the standard at all. Not even close.

Goldfish did not originate here and many overseas areas where the hobby is prevalent know much more than we do. Google is a good way to be wrong about something. Gotta look a bit deeper than that.
 
Guanchy
  • #8
that is one beautiful vail tail goldfish! would love to see more pictures!
 
Goldiemom
  • #9
Just because people label long finned fish a certain thing on GOOGLE doesn't mean they actually fit the standard. I saw tons of fish labeled veiltails that don't fit the breed standard at all. That is why I provided the origin link to the actual show based variety of fish.

America has done much harm to the true breed standards of fish and we are quick to think we are correct over other countries and standards when we are wrong. This fish is not a veiltail. It just isn't. Doesn't fit the standard at all. Not even close.

Goldfish did not originate here and many overseas areas where the hobby is prevalent know much more than we do. Google is a good way to be wrong about something. Gotta look a bit deeper than that.
Thank you for your information and we do sincerely appreciate it. My information on veil tails comes from long before Google or the intranet was ever dreamed of though. Again, these are not show standards, just what we have used for decades in hobbyist aquarist terms.
 
mjfromga
  • #10

This first fish is not what a true Veiltail should look like. This is a mess. The fins are forked and it just looks sloppy and all over the place.. The babies and last two fish are proper veiltails.


This is close to the breed standard and the finnage almost matches what a proper one should look like.

Neither fish can swim properly and this happens a lot when a fishes fins are excessively long and the body isn't able to hold them properly. Seeing a nice veil tail that can swim properly is very uncommon, especially in the United States. Why people WANT these fish that can't swim normally is beyond me.

But there's no point in an argument. Good luck with your fish OP... He's definitely a pretty guy.
 
mjfromga
  • #11
Thank you for your information and we do sincerely appreciate it. My information on veil tails comes from long before Google or the intranet was ever dreamed of though. Again, these are not show standards, just what we have used for decades in hobbyist aquarist terms.

I understand. I guess people only into the hobby grade fish call all fish with long fins veiltails. It's all good. Have a nice day
 
Goldiemom
  • #12
Your calico looks a lot like one of mine.
 

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Goldiemom
  • #13
One more of mine...and he swims perfect! I love this pic!
 

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Goldiemom
  • #14
I understand. I guess people only into the hobby grade fish call all fish with long fins veiltails. It's all good. Have a nice day
I’m curious, what type of tail would you say the fish has? Not breed, but tail type.
 
goldface
  • #15
It’s a ribbontail. I agree a veiltail isn’t forked.
 
Goldiemom
  • #16
I

This first fish is not what a true Veiltail should look like. This is a mess. The fins are forked and it just looks sloppy and all over the place.. The babies and last two fish are proper veiltails.


This is close to the breed standard and the finnage almost matches what a proper one should look like.

Neither fish can swim properly and this happens a lot when a fishes fins are excessively long and the body isn't able to hold them properly. Seeing a nice veil tail that can swim properly is very uncommon, especially in the United States. Why people WANT these fish that can't swim normally is beyond me.

But there's no point in an argument. Good luck with your fish OP... He's definitely a pretty guy.
. Truly interesting. The shorter tail fish are simply fantails but not veil tails in my opinion. The fish with swimming issues has obvious body distortion in comparison with the tail which causes the swim issues. If his body was longer he would do much better. Sad what happens to some of these fish, isn’t it?
 
mjfromga
  • #17
I’m curious, what type of tail would you say the fish has? Not breed, but tail type.

The fish the OP has appears to have a FUSED ribbontail. It is deeply forked. It isn't a veiltail. Veiltails must never be forked. They're supposed to look like the lobes of a brides veil. People who work hard to get fish to adhere to the true breed standards wouldn't appreciate pet store culls being mislabeled as a fairly rare type of fish. That's why I commented to begin with. I wasn't trying to insult because I think the little fish is great just the way he is.
 
Goldiemom
  • #18
It’s a ribbontail. I agree a veiltail isn’t forked.
No, a ribbon tail has deeper cuts in the tail.
 
Goldiemom
  • #19
The fish the OP has appears to have a FUSED ribbontail. It is deeply forked. It isn't a veiltail. Veiltails must never be forked. They're supposed to look like the lobes of a brides veil. People who work hard to get fish to adhere to the true breed standards wouldn't appreciate pet store culls being mislabeled as a fairly rare type of fish. That's why I commented to begin with. I wasn't trying to insult because I think the little fish is great just the way he is.
No problem and I understand as I use to breed English bulldogs and would get so frustrated with breeders who went against breed standards. However, that is a breeders issue, not the general public’s to correct.
 
mjfromga
  • #20
I had many fish with long fins. They're mostly just culls and junk fish from pet stores. I loved them and some were beautiful fish, but I didn't call them what they weren't.
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Goldiemom
  • #21
Ok. I’m stopping here. I was enjoying the conversation until you inferred that we have nothing but “ junk”. I find that offensive. I’m sorry.
 
goldface
  • #22
Ok. I’m stopping here. I was enjoying the conversation until you inferred that we have nothing but “ junk”. I find that offensive. I’m sorry.
I think she simply meant culls. Yes, bad word choice, but I'm sure she didn't mean anything offensive by it.
 
mjfromga
  • #23
Yes that is how I meant it. I loved my "junk" fish with all my heart and was crushed when I lost them all last winter. Spent so much trying to save them. I was referring to my OWN fish as junk. It just means not show grade. Was not trying to be offensive. Take it easy.
 
Pescado_Verde
  • #24
I understood your intent. Thank you to all for the informative discussion. As a Betta owner I know mine are just "junk" from the Pstore but I think they're beautiful. Maybe not prize winners but that's fine with me.
 
RoseLorek
  • Thread Starter
  • #25
A TRUE veiltail is very rare. It isn't forked like this fishes tail and the fish look nothing like this one. Have a look...


This fish has what appears to be fused caudal fins, asymmetric eyes, a weak peduncle not suited for such a tail, a weak leading dorsal ray, a mostly red calico pattern that lacks the proper blues, and no body depth whatsoever.

By definition, this fish is a calico telescope eye. He definitely is *NOT* a veiltail. He simply has long fins.

There are usually many fish in a spawn with fins that are too long. Those fins will likely cause swimming issues later down the line. His unbalanced finnage isn't a good thing. Good breeders cull fish like this one, which is why you find them at pet stores.

With that said, he's a cute little guy and may develop into something beautiful.
Ma'm I respect your opinion but there is no need to critisize my fish like that. Nobody's perfect and I happen to think imperfection is more beautiful. Veil tail or not you don't have to point out every imperfection on my fish like it's some sort of Frankenstein. He's beautiful.
 
RoseLorek
  • Thread Starter
  • #26
Also I never denied my fish wasn't a telescope but it IS possible for it to have a veil gene. Just because it isn't a pure veil tail doesn't mean it can't harbor some of its features!
Just because people label long finned fish a certain thing on GOOGLE doesn't mean they actually fit the standard. I saw tons of fish labeled veiltails that don't fit the breed standard at all. That is why I provided the origin link to the actual show based variety of fish.

America has done much harm to the true breed standards of fish and we are quick to think we are correct over other countries and standards when we are wrong. This fish is not a veiltail. It just isn't. Doesn't fit the standard at all. Not even close.

Goldfish did not originate here and many overseas areas where the hobby is prevalent know much more than we do. Google is a good way to be wrong about something. Gotta look a bit deeper than that.
 
Skavatar
  • #27
i've read goldfish have 4 pairs of chromosomes,tetraploid, instead of the usual 2 pairs. making them genetically more complex in the breeding process.

the long tail is probably a recessive trait in that line of telescope goldfish.

i've noticed that feeder comets coming from the same batch have short and long tails.
 
RoseLorek
  • Thread Starter
  • #28
that is one beautiful vail tail goldfish! would love to see more pictures!
 

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goldface
  • #29
Sorry, that’s not a veiltail but a ribbontail. You can think of a ribbontail simply as a longer fantail. It looks like a tied ribbon, almost.

This, here, is what a veiltail looks like. I got this photo from Solidgoldaquatics website: Goldfish Varieties & Standards – Solid Gold Aquatics

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Also, here is a link to Steve’s website, Rain Garden. He’s a goldfish breeder in Hawaii. You can check out the differences between his Fantails and Ribbontails.
Fantail goldfish from Rain Garden
 
RoseLorek
  • Thread Starter
  • #30
Sorry, that’s not a veiltail but a ribbontail. You can think of a ribbontail simply as a longer fantail. It looks like a tied ribbon, almost.

This, here, is what a veiltail looks like. I got this photo from Solidgoldaquatics website: Goldfish Varieties & Standards – Solid Gold Aquatics
View attachment 483071
Also, here is a link to Steve’s website, Rain Garden. He’s a goldfish breeder in Hawaii. You can check out the differences between his Fantails and Ribbontails.
Fantail goldfish from Rain Garden

Thanks for the info, Did you see the other photos I posted with a clearer view of his tail? I was never trying to push that he was a veil tail was just asking for peoples opinions. I know he's got a little something different whatever it is is debatable. He's beautiful either way and that's all that matters!
 
RoseLorek
  • Thread Starter
  • #31
Ok. I’m stopping here. I was enjoying the conversation until you inferred that we have nothing but “ junk”. I find that offensive. I’m sorry.
Couldn't agree more with you. No fish or animal is junk.
 
goldface
  • #32
Thanks for the info, Did you see the other photos I posted with a clearer view of his tail? I was never trying to push that he was a veil tail was just asking for peoples opinions. I know he's got a little something different whatever it is is debatable. He's beautiful either way and that's all that matters!
Yes, I did and I still stand by it. I actually prefer the longer ribbontail over the shorter fantail, myself. It's difficult to find an actual Ribbontail variety in the states, unfortunately.
 
TheeLadyG
  • #33
I've got some kind of mutt goldfish that *definitely* would not make it in the show world. I can't decide if she's gorgeous, or hideous! Haha... I know breed standards better now and both my fish are probably culls sold cheap to the pet store. ♡ my girls, but I wouldn't breed them
 
mjfromga
  • #34
Ma'm I respect your opinion but there is no need to critisize my fish like that. Nobody's perfect and I happen to think imperfection is more beautiful. Veil tail or not you don't have to point out every imperfection on my fish like it's some sort of Frankenstein. He's beautiful.

And with all due respect, ma'am you should encompass all of what I wrote before you act like I said he was a horrible fish. I actually rather like the little guy and I would have picked him too. He IS a beautiful fish. A cull doesn't mean an ugly fish. Not at ALL. I wasn't arguing with you and I wasn't even addressing you when it came to what the fish actually was.

I've had fish I loved harshly picked apart by people who were way more knowledgeable in the hobby and it did nothing but help me learn. At first I was annoyed but then I realized that maybe I wasn't right and soon I was happy to have them teach me things.

To anybody who was offended by my use of the word "junk", it wasn't intended that way. All my current fish are "junk" or "culls" and I love them the same as people who have show grade and costly well bred fish.
 
mjfromga
  • #35
I understood your intent. Thank you to all for the informative discussion. As a Betta owner I know mine are just "junk" from the Pstore but I think they're beautiful. Maybe not prize winners but that's fine with me.

I just got 3 "junk" Bettas crammed into the SAME cup from Walmart. Didn't really want them, didn't really have space for them... But I just didn't want them to die... And left for much longer they would have killed each other.

If these people knew how much I LOVED fish, they wouldn't take what I am saying so harshly. I was only trying to make a correction with visible and detailed comments, I was not trying to downgrade anybody's pets.

I DO NOT OWN any high grade fish but I respect the people who work hard to uphold variety and breed standards and so I try my best to call fish the appropriate names. Nobody is perfect and we get things wrong sometimes, me as well.
 
Guanchy
  • #36
I understand. I guess people only into the hobby grade fish call all fish with long fins veiltails. It's all good. Have a nice day
Why are you so aggressive because someone has a different opinion than you? chill mama its just a fish
 
mjfromga
  • #37
Why are you so aggressive because someone has a different opinion than you? chill mama its just a fish

I explained my position already to the people I was addressing, which wasn't you BTW. It's funny that you are the one quoting a message way back in the thread to point a finger at me (for some inconceivable reason) when I already explained what I meant. You are trying to call someone aggressive and telling them to chill after such a move? Perhaps you should chill. I wouldn't have written anything else had you not quoted me in this manner and this thread would have chilled. After all, "it's just a fish" right? In addition, having a different opinion isn't an issue to me at all. Being wrong whilst insisting you are correct is a different matter.
 
Guanchy
  • #38
I explained my position already to the people I was addressing, which wasn't you BTW. It's funny that you are the one quoting a message way back in the thread to point a finger at me (for some inconceivable reason) when I already explained what I meant. You are trying to call someone aggressive and telling them to chill after such a move? Perhaps you should chill. I wouldn't have written anything else had you not quoted me in this manner and this thread would have chilled. After all, "it's just a fish" right? In addition, having a different opinion isn't an issue to me at all. Being wrong whilst insisting you are correct is a different matter.

hahahaha exactly my point, have a good day ma'am!
 
mjfromga
  • #39
You too
 

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