What Angelfish Type Am I?

Trying to determine what the fry would be exactly with these guys as parents. I've always had trouble figuring out whether or not the mother was a gold marble or koi? (I thought gold marble) I'm fairly certain the papa is a Silver Veil. They have some juvenile babies and some new fry and I want to be sure I know what they would be considered before I bring them to my LFS to sell.

All of my adult angels are adopted from a friends mother who was unable to care for them any longer. Out of the original 10 angels, 6 paired up and I now have 3 breeding pair. Gold, Marble, and the pair I'm asking about. Any input will be appreciated.

 

First one looks like a gold marble for me, second is a silver veiltail.

 

First one looks like a gold marble for me, second is a silver veiltail.

So would the fry be silver & gold marble veiltail? Lol I'm sure that can't be right but I really am not sure what they would be called

 

So would the fry be silver & gold marble veiltail? Lol I'm sure that can't be right but I really am not sure what they would be called

Depends on the gentic makeup. I SUCK with angel genetics, but off memory the veiltail is recessive so that means the marble needs to be a carrier of the veiltail gene. And from memory, the silver is dominant, so you may have other genetics come in play. Google angel genetics and it may answer your question for you.

 

Depends on the gentic makeup. I SUCK with angel genetics, but off memory the veiltail is recessive so that means the marble needs to be a carrier of the veiltail gene. And from memory, the silver is dominant, so you may have other genetics come in play. Google angel genetics and it may answer your question for you.

Ok I'll try it and see what it says. Thanks a bunch

 

its a golden marble the fry will be mixed half and half genetics in fish is rather tricky to follow the color morphs will be intresting but do what faithfulninja22 said google angelfish genetics cheers john u may end up with some thing way diffrent to what your expecting to get

 

bizaliz3 has angelfish and knows about genetics

 

Actually veil tail is dominant. So you will have veil tails even if only one is a veil.

Either way...they both look like veils....but I need a zoomed out photo of the first one to confirm.

As for the color morphs...There is a good chance the babies will just be marbles and Silvers. But it all depends on the recessive hidden genes they may have. You'll have to wait and see. That's what is so fun about it!

 

The thing to know is that Gold Marble is actually a gene separate from Marble or Gold, all of which are on the same locus. A fish with only one gene for Gold does not show Gold because it is recessive to everything, so a fish with one gene for Gold and one for Marble would simply be a standard Marble. However, the Gold Marble gene behaves differently than either of those, as it is co-dominant with wild type (Silver) gene, while Marble is a completely dominant gene over wild type. From the appearance of the fish, it looks like a homozygous Gold Marble, that is, two genes for Gold Marble. In which case the fry will all be what is called Silver Gold Marble. This is a fish that is basically Gold Marble, but has shadowy stripes of a Silver Angel because it is heterozygous for normal (silver) and Gold Marble.

 

Depending on how much black marbling pigmentation is on the other side of the gold Marble angel, she could have one Gm gene and one gold. That would produce some silver babies with one gold gene.

 

My first pair was a black marble and a silver. The babies were 50/50. Half were silver, half were marble.

chromedome52 couldn't the first one be g/gm? I would think there would be more black coverage if it were gm/gm.

If it is g/gm, you would get half silver and have gold marble silver. Rather than 100% silver gold marble.

And what if the gold marble is hiding a stripless gene? Then there could be ghosts too.

 

My first pair was a black marble and a silver. The babies were 50/50. Half were silver, half were marble.

chromedome52 couldn't the first one be g/gm? I would think there would be more black coverage if it were gm/gm.

If it is g/gm, you would get half silver and have gold marble silver. Rather than 100% silver gold marble.

And what if the gold marble is hiding a stripless gene? Then there could be ghosts too.

You could be right. There, I said it. Are you happy?

 

You could be right. There, I said it. Are you happy?

hahaha you are too funny! I am in no way looking for that! I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track. And I trust your knowledge so much!! I didn't want to say it with too much confidence and be wrong. (even though I was pretty convinced I was right) I mean....your signature says it all:

'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

But yes...I am glad to hear that I was on the right track! And admittedly....its kind of exciting to be able correct you for once! haha

(technically it appears angelcraze beat me to it...but I was busy typing my response when she posted hers, so I missed hers. She ninja'd me)

 

(technically it appears angelcraze beat me to it...but I was busy typing my response when she posted hers, so I missed hers. She ninja'd me)

That's only because I started with Gm/g. I know those genes well, but you all blow me out of the water with the more rare and complicated genetics hahaha.

 

Actually veil tail is dominant. So you will have veil tails even if only one is a veil.

Either way...they both look like veils....but I need a zoomed out photo of the first one to confirm.

As for the color morphs...There is a good chance the babies will just be marbles and Silvers. But it all depends on the recessive hidden genes they may have. You'll have to wait and see. That's what is so fun about it!

Yes it is exciting!! They are already starting to develop their coloring!! As soon as I get home from work I'll get a better shot of mom and I'll try and get some of the juveniles. To me, they are looking like golds but with the silver stripes and yes of course they are veil! I was just watching them swim last night and looked up and it was 3a.m. Glad I noticed the time cuz work came very early lol

 

The thing to know is that Gold Marble is actually a gene separate from Marble or Gold, all of which are on the same locus. A fish with only one gene for Gold does not show Gold because it is recessive to everything, so a fish with one gene for Gold and one for Marble would simply be a standard Marble. However, the Gold Marble gene behaves differently than either of those, as it is co-dominant with wild type (Silver) gene, while Marble is a completely dominant gene over wild type. From the appearance of the fish, it looks like a homozygous Gold Marble, that is, two genes for Gold Marble. In which case the fry will all be what is called Silver Gold Marble. This is a fish that is basically Gold Marble, but has shadowy stripes of a Silver Angel because it is heterozygous for normal (silver) and Gold Marble.

Ok that sounds about like what they're starting to look like but they do have the veil like fins... does that change things?

 

Yes it is exciting!! They are already starting to develop their coloring!! As soon as I get home from work I'll get a better shot of mom and I'll try and get some of the juveniles. To me, they are looking like golds but with the silver stripes and yes of course they are veil! I was just watching them swim last night and looked up and it was 3a.m. Glad I noticed the time cuz work came very early lol

Silver's can look sort of gold as babies. So if you see no other markings other than stripes, they are just normal silvers.

I completely understand missing out on sleep to watch the babies!! haha

Ok that sounds about like what they're starting to look like but they do have the veil like fins... does that change things?

Veil is it's own gene. Any color morph can be a veil tail.

 

My first pair was a black marble and a silver. The babies were 50/50. Half were silver, half were marble.

chromedome52 couldn't the first one be g/gm? I would think there would be more black coverage if it were gm/gm.

If it is g/gm, you would get half silver and have gold marble silver. Rather than 100% silver gold marble.

And what if the gold marble is hiding a stripless gene? Then there could be ghosts too.

I'm so excited to see how they turn out! My cup runneth over!!

 

You could be right. There, I said it. Are you happy?

Haha

 

hahaha you are too funny! I am in no way looking for that! I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track. And I trust your knowledge so much!! I didn't want to say it with too much confidence and be wrong. (even though I was pretty convinced I was right) I mean....your signature says it all:

'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

But yes...I am glad to hear that I was on the right track! And admittedly....its kind of exciting to be able correct you for once! haha

(technically it appears angelcraze beat me to it...but I was busy typing my response when she posted hers, so I missed hers. She ninja'd me)

Those dang ninjas! You guys are cracking me up

 

hahaha you are too funny! I am in no way looking for that! I just wanted to make sure I was on the right track. And I trust your knowledge so much!! I didn't want to say it with too much confidence and be wrong. (even though I was pretty convinced I was right) I mean....your signature says it all:

'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.

But yes...I am glad to hear that I was on the right track! And admittedly....its kind of exciting to be able correct you for once! haha

(technically it appears angelcraze beat me to it...but I was busy typing my response when she posted hers, so I missed hers. She ninja'd me)

And educating for sure

 

It seems like a mixture of spots and stripes on some. That's why I couldn't figure it out

 

Silver's can look sort of gold as babies. So if you see no other markings other than stripes, they are just normal silvers.

I completely understand missing out on sleep to watch the babies!! haha



Veil is it's own gene. Any color morph can be a veil tail.

Ok that makes sense. To think I was gonna add some other types into the mix... Probably should wait til I know the basics first. They are just so pretty

 

Ok. I apologize I passed out when I got home! I got some pictures of the juveniles in question ance done look like silvers and some don't. I dunno. What do you think?

 

Ok. I apologize I passed out when I got home! I got some pictures of the juveniles in question ance done look like silvers and some don't. I dunno. What do you think?

Of course you have the obvious marbles (different parents) and then there are some golds in there as well. I'd say about half of them (silver veil dad and gold marble mom) look like gold marble veil and the other half you can definitely see the silver stripes! They change almost everyday though, so who knows what ill end up with when all is said and done.

 

It would seem that your Silver was carrying a hidden Gold gene, as well. It takes two gold genes to make a gold angel, and you definitely have some gold angels there. The marbles that have stripes showing through are Silver Gold Marbles, and you also got some regular silvers because a gold gene, as suggested by others here, combined with a normal gene, makes normal silvers, as everything is dominant over gold.

Sometimes the right combination of genes will give you something specific, while the wrong combination can give you Heinz 57 Varieties. It can be fun for some people getting a lot of different fry. Personally it drives me nutz!

 

I think your Gold marble angel actually IS homogeneous for Gm (two Gold marble genes) because I see wild bars as well as marble markings on the young one in the 1st and 2nd pic at least. I see that on some others as well.

Also, you have a few with a lot of dark coverage. Maybe the silver had a dark gene too? (The lace caudal fin?) Here's where my genetics knowledge gets a bit cloudy. OR they simply have more Gold marbling expressing, but IMO, it looks more like Marble than Gold marble.

 

I think your Gold marble angel actually IS homogeneous for Gm (two Gold marble genes) because I see wild bars as well as marble markings on the young one in the 1st and 2nd pic at least. I see that on some others as well.

Also, you have a few with a lot of dark coverage. Maybe the silver had a dark gene too? (The lace caudal fin?) Here's where my genetics knowledge gets a bit cloudy. OR they simply have more Gold marbling expressing, but IMO, it looks more like Marble than Gold marble.

But in order for there to be gold babies BOTH parents have a single gold gene. So it has to be g/gm.

 

But in order for there to be gold babies BOTH parents have a single gold gene. So it has to be g/gm.

Oh you are sooooo right! I feel like an idiot lol! What is causing all the dark? A dark gene on the silver?

 

I think those were from a different pair of fish, from what she said in her post. I could be wrong.

Oh you are sooooo right! I feel like an idiot lol! What is causing all the dark? A dark gene on the silver?

 

It would seem that your Silver was carrying a hidden Gold gene, as well. It takes two gold genes to make a gold angel, and you definitely have some gold angels there.

Yea, I see the gold in the silver angel now. I wasn't sure with the pic at first. I do find his fins are very dark tho. Is it just me? Would he have that lace caudal without a dark gene? Would that be the way one dose of dark is expressed?

 

It would seem that your Silver was carrying a hidden Gold gene, as well. It takes two gold genes to make a gold angel, and you definitely have some gold angels there. The marbles that have stripes showing through are Silver Gold Marbles, and you also got some regular silvers because a gold gene, as suggested by others here, combined with a normal gene, makes normal silvers, as everything is dominant over gold.

Sometimes the right combination of genes will give you something specific, while the wrong combination can give you Heinz 57 Varieties. It can be fun for some people getting a lot of different fry. Personally it drives me nutz!

Thanks for all the info! It will most certainly help me out in the long run!

 

I think your Gold marble angel actually IS homogeneous for Gm (two Gold marble genes) because I see wild bars as well as marble markings on the young one in the 1st and 2nd pic at least. I see that on some others as well.

Also, you have a few with a lot of dark coverage. Maybe the silver had a dark gene too? (The lace caudal fin?) Here's where my genetics knowledge gets a bit cloudy. OR they simply have more Gold marbling expressing, but IMO, it looks more like Marble than Gold marble.

Omg I'm sorry I thought I told you guts that the darker ones are Marbles, 2 different parents, the golds are just golds, 2nd set of parents, then the other multI colored kids are the silver veil and gold marble babies. I'm sorry I feel like a jerk for not clarifying that. These guys were the smaller ones of all 3 pair spawns . They were getting bullied in the other tanks so I put them together in their own tank so they had a better chance

 

Oh you are sooooo right! I feel like an idiot lol! What is causing all the dark? A dark gene on the silver?

So so sorry.