What am I doing wrong with my Monte Carlo?

I got monte carlo (tissue culture) with the intention of carpeting part of my 10-gallon tank and put it in around Nov. 3. I had a peppered cory nudging some of it up, but he's left it alone after a day or two. It hasn't been growing though, and I had to pull up a few patches that had just melted away into nothing but brown mush and algae. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, but can't think of it and would like some advice.

Tank when I got the monte carlo:
I started doing CO2 Nov. 1 with a smaller Fluval CO2 kit and there was about a day or two after the first canister ran out that I didn't have a replacement ready (I've got a 5lb canister I need filled and I'll switch to that once I have). I have a Fluval AquaSky that was set to go up to a max of 85% and back down from 9am to 7pm with a 2hr break from 12-2pm. I was dosing liquid Leaf Zone and CO2 Booster (to keep algae down) every other day or twice a week instead of Leaf Zone and use the CO2 Booster on occasion (and when out of CO2 canister)

Changes I'm going to try:
I changed the lighting yesterday to go up to 100% with no break from 9am to 9pm to see if the higher lighting will help what patches are left (moving my clear glass lid out of the way of it even). I also added root tabs this morning to see if that would help, even though my soil is Fluval Stratum, I heard root tabs would add pockets of nutrients that could encourage it. My CO2 timing isn't perfect because I don't have it on a timer, so it comes on around 10am and turns off between 7-9pm when I manually turn it off. I now dose (as of last week) ThriveC twice a week.

Attached are pictures of the tank when I first added the patches and two pictures of the patches now, which are all showing some melting but also some root growth? I just don't know what to do to get it to carpet. All other plants are surviving fine, just the monte carlo is struggling. Went from 5-6 small patches on both sides to 5 patches on one and only 1 patch on the other after removing 3-4 brown mush/algae patches.

 

From my understanding, Monte Carlo is pretty slow to establish and can take a month or two to take off. It appears to be sending out runners...I’d let it be and just keep an eye on melting/browning vegetation to remove. Otherwise they look healthy

 

From my understanding, Monte Carlo is pretty slow to establish and can take a month or two to take off. It appears to be sending out runners...I’d let it be and just keep an eye on melting/browning vegetation to remove. Otherwise they look healthy

Yeah, there are a few patches that are actually growing roots so I'm hopeful (so long as my darn cory leaves them alone) but they do have some melting too. I just had to remove quite a bit though because it was melted beyond repair. I was pulling it out and it came out as a clump of brown with strings of brown hair algae all over it. I'm going to try and keep maybe some daily photos or something to keep better track of whether the patches are growing or not.

Do the runners go very far from the patches? And would it be better to get more so the patches are closer and can interconnect into a carpet better?

 

Yeah, there are a few patches that are actually growing roots so I'm hopeful (so long as my darn cory leaves them alone) but they do have some melting too. I just had to remove quite a bit though because it was melted beyond repair. I was pulling it out and it came out as a clump of brown with strings of brown hair algae all over it. I'm going to try and keep maybe some daily photos or something to keep better track of whether the patches are growing or not.

Do the runners go very far from the patches? And would it be better to get more so the patches are closer and can interconnect into a carpet better?

What light are you using? The smaller you can break up the pieces of Monte Carlo when planting, the faster it will carpet. Ideally you’d break it up into small pieces, and then plant in a grid pattern with about a half an inch in between each bit.

 

What light are you using? The smaller you can break up the pieces of Monte Carlo when planting, the faster it will carpet. Ideally you’d break it up into small pieces, and then plant in a grid pattern with about a half an inch in between each bit.

I'm using a Fluval Aquasky 2.0. I just changed the settings a bit to something brighter as I was only going up to 85% max with a 2hr low light break (I can post the percentages of my settings if you want) and am now getting it up to 100% max. I looked it up and it was saying PAR is 55-65 at 14 inches (If this is helpful, I honestly don't know what it means and my tank depth is about 12 inches, 10 inches to the stratum).

I had smaller patches (those were the ones that died off and I removed) but because I had my two cory I wasn't sure how aggressive they'd be about pulling them up. So, split them into slightly bigger patches just to keep them in the gravel better. Would it be better to get more monte carlo, make smaller patches and add them in? Or try to break these patches into smaller ones even though they've already been in there a while?

 

I'm using a Fluval Aquasky 2.0. I just changed the settings a bit to something brighter as I was only going up to 85% max with a 2hr low light break (I can post the percentages of my settings if you want) and am now getting it up to 100% max. I looked it up and it was saying PAR is 55-65 at 14 inches (If this is helpful, I honestly don't know what it means and my tank depth is about 12 inches, 10 inches to the stratum).

I had smaller patches (those were the ones that died off and I removed) but because I had my two cory I wasn't sure how aggressive they'd be about pulling them up. So, split them into slightly bigger patches just to keep them in the gravel better. Would it be better to get more monte carlo, make smaller patches and add them in? Or try to break these patches into smaller ones even though they've already been in there a while?

Okay cool, PAR is the best measurement there is for a light’s intensity. Typically you want around 50 PAR at the substrate to grow a carpet. I personally wouldn’t go beyond 6 hours of lighting if you are having any nuisance algae issues. Assuming the Fluval light is programmable, for viewing pleasure you could do the rest of the time you’d like the tank to be lit at under 10% lighting. So I’d recommend 6 hours at 85% and then the rest of the time at under 10%. When lighting a tank, going beyond 10 hours of stronger light leads to significant diminishing returns in plant growth and promotes nuisance algae growth, so most people light their tanks (not including low viewing light pleasure) 7-10 hours, while 5-6 is common for less established tanks.

I would probably leave the patches you’ve already planted alone and add more, breaking up the new additions into smaller pieces. I feel your pain though, planting in gravel is tough. I think you could at least get away with going half the size of the clumps you have already in the tank while keeping them sturdy enough to avoid being dug up by the Corys, but that’s a judgment call.

If you’re going to be injecting CO2 and using 50 par and above, you’ll definitely want to look into a comprehensive fertilizer. API Leaf Zone is not a comprehensive fertilizer, see this video for reference:

A member of the forum made it a few years back and it explains API leaf zone vs a couple other good options.

How long has your tank been set up?

 

Okay cool, PAR is the best measurement there is for a light’s intensity. Typically you want around 50 PAR at the substrate to grow a carpet. I personally wouldn’t go beyond 6 hours of lighting if you are having any nuisance algae issues. Assuming the Fluval light is programmable, for viewing pleasure you could do the rest of the time you’d like the tank to be lit at under 10% lighting. So I’d recommend 6 hours at 85% and then the rest of the time at under 10%. When lighting a tank, going beyond 10 hours of stronger light leads to significant diminishing returns in plant growth and promotes nuisance algae growth, so most people light their tanks (not including low viewing light pleasure) 7-10 hours, while 5-6 is common for less established tanks.

I would probably leave the patches you’ve already planted alone and add more, breaking up the new additions into smaller pieces. I feel your pain though, planting in gravel is tough. I think you could at least get away with going half the size of the clumps you have already in the tank while keeping them sturdy enough to avoid being dug up by the Corys, but that’s a judgment call.

If you’re going to be injecting CO2 and using 50 par and above, you’ll definitely want to look into a comprehensive fertilizer. API Leaf Zone is not a comprehensive fertilizer, see this video for reference:

A member of the forum made it a few years back and it explains API leaf zone vs a couple other good options.

How long has your tank been set up?

I just ordered Thrive All in One plant fert. but I've been using the ThriveC I have for my betta tank since last week.

I'll adjust my lighting again. I had it set to be from 10am to 7pm with a 2 hr break from 12-2 because I was getting brown algae on the glass (would this be a better setting?). I am seeing some of that algae return along with some green algae on my dragon stone but I'm sure the nerite I've got in there will gobble it up.

I'll get some monte carlo again and make some smaller patches to add to these ones. I'm sure the person get them from is wondering where it all goes

And the tank has been set up since May, but was switched from gravel with a couple of plants to fluval stratum with a lot of plants mid October. The monte carlo wasn't added until November 3.

 

I just ordered Thrive All in One plant fert. but I've been using the ThriveC I have for my betta tank since last week.

I'll adjust my lighting again. I had it set to be from 10am to 7pm with a 2 hr break from 12-2 because I was getting brown algae on the glass (would this be a better setting?). I am seeing some of that algae return along with some green algae on my dragon stone but I'm sure the nerite I've got in there will gobble it up.

I'll get some monte carlo again and make some smaller patches to add to these ones. I'm sure the person get them from is wondering where it all goes

And the tank has been set up since May, but was switched from gravel with a couple of plants to fluval stratum with a lot of plants mid October. The monte carlo wasn't added until November 3.

Oh awesome, sorry about that, I see you do have aquasoil. I have Fluval stratum in one of my tanks too, nice choice. I know that some people do breaks in light periods like you do, but most of the people I’ve followed don’t so I’ve never tried it, so I can’t speak to that method from experience. I would think that lighting schedule would be fine though, it’s up to you. The algae you have is perfectly normal, the brown algae is called diatoms and it’s common with new tanks, especially planted ones. I get some algae on my rocks too—every tank has some algae, as long as it doesn’t become a nuisance it’s fine. Sounds like you’re doing everything right and you just need the plants to grow in a bit more and the tank should balance.

 

So, I've been trying to get a carpet going and the first 2 times it hasn't worked. Whether it was me planting too big of bunches or the cory pulling them out or something else, I don't know. They would start bright green, then would start to brown, then would rot in the substrate until I removed them.

This is my 3rd time trying. I planted them as individual stalks (the etsy person I get them from sent me some tall-growing ones so this was easier). They were long enough the cory didn't pull them out (and I recently moved the cory to a larger tank with more cory) and they're in Fluval Stratum substrate. I also does liquid CO2 once a week and Thrive liquid fert 2-3 times a week. I have CO2 running during the day (though the valve is a bit finicky and likes to turn itself off, but I try to make sure it's on all day and off at night). I have AquaSky lights that were doing high light from 10am to noon, low light for 2-3 hrs, then high light again from 3pm-9pm with an hour sunset from 9pm to 10pm.

I am starting to see the same discoloration as I saw before though. The plants are turning a sort of brownish-yellow. Some have the edges of their leaves turning transparent. Their once bright green appearance is just vanishing and I'm looking for new growth and am unsure if I'm getting any or if it's spreading at all. I've changed the lighting, thinking it needs more light so the light is now an hour sunrise from 9am-10am, high light from 10am-6pm, and sunset from 6pm-7pm. I've posted pictures below and am trying to figure out what is going on.

 

So, I've been trying to get a carpet going and the first 2 times it hasn't worked. Whether it was me planting too big of bunches or the cory pulling them out or something else, I don't know. They would start bright green, then would start to brown, then would rot in the substrate until I removed them.

This is my 3rd time trying. I planted them as individual stalks (the etsy person I get them from sent me some tall-growing ones so this was easier). They were long enough the cory didn't pull them out (and I recently moved the cory to a larger tank with more cory) and they're in Fluval Stratum substrate. I also does liquid CO2 once a week and Thrive liquid fert 2-3 times a week. I have CO2 running during the day (though the valve is a bit finicky and likes to turn itself off, but I try to make sure it's on all day and off at night). I have AquaSky lights that were doing high light from 10am to noon, low light for 2-3 hrs, then high light again from 3pm-9pm with an hour sunset from 9pm to 10pm.

I am starting to see the same discoloration as I saw before though. The plants are turning a sort of brownish-yellow. Some have the edges of their leaves turning transparent. Their once bright green appearance is just vanishing and I'm looking for new growth and am unsure if I'm getting any or if it's spreading at all. I've changed the lighting, thinking it needs more light so the light is now an hour sunrise from 9am-10am, high light from 10am-6pm, and sunset from 6pm-7pm. I've posted pictures below and am trying to figure out what is going on.

Honestly, and i could be wrong as I'm fairly new(2 1/2 years) to plants my self and have 0 experience with co2. what ive experienced and from what I've read on here is that some plants grow for some people and others don't. It could be the minerals in your tap water just don't mix well with the monte carlo. I've tried several plants multiple times, some grow some don't. If nothing else works i would attempt a different carpeting plant but hopefully someone on here can give you a better answer. Best of luck to you!

 

I always find it hard to diagnose based on a few images and text; so I simply share my experiences. I had Monte carlo once growing in an Iwagumi tank, bright lights, CO2, ferts; the carpets were growing just ridiculously, and got really tired of trimming.

For years, I'm keeping Monte Carlo emersed in a flat vase; the vase has aquasoil which I keep wet. But all the emersed plants absorb so much water, I can't keep up with the pace of refilling. The vase is on a windowsill; no dedicated lights; no ferts; decent lights and lots of CO2 obviously as it grows emersed. So I neglect the vase oftentimes, but the Monte Carlo is as green as can be.

A few weeks ago, I created a new scape with Monte carlo. I did a dry start, but I run out of patience and filled the tank after 2 weeks. The tank has bright lights for 8 hrs in a row, aquasoil, and I conduct the EI approach with an all-in-one fertiliser, but no CO2. However, the tank is very shallow and I create a lot of water movement and surface agitation with a HOB filter. The Monte carlo is doing excellent; after 4 weeks it is starting to take off. I have a lot of other plant species in the tank already, including emersed ferns, to prevent algae.

I would stop dosing liquid CO2. If you fear algae, add more plants in your tank, even if its just temporarily until your MC takes off.

Light regime; I favour 8 hrs straight. Not an advocate of siestas, especially if dosing CO2.
If you like to enjoy the tank in the morning and evening, use a dimmer with time controller (8 hrs decent light, 2 hrs before en 2-4 hrs after very dim light).

EI approach is something to think about. In other words, overdose with fertilizers daily, followed by a big water change at the end of the week.

And finally, what I live by: good water movement. I know carpets can let go easily in the beginning, but ideally, you see some tiny movement of the leaves.

Good luck.

 

I always find it hard to diagnose based on a few images and text; so I simply share my experiences. I had Monte carlo once growing in an Iwagumi tank, bright lights, CO2, ferts; the carpets were growing just ridiculously, and got really tired of trimming.

For years, I'm keeping Monte Carlo emersed in a flat vase; the vase has aquasoil which I keep wet. But all the emersed plants absorb so much water, I can't keep up with the pace of refilling. The vase is on a windowsill; no dedicated lights; no ferts; decent lights and lots of CO2 obviously as it grows emersed. So I neglect the vase oftentimes, but the Monte Carlo is as green as can be.

A few weeks ago, I created a new scape with Monte carlo. I did a dry start, but I run out of patience and filled the tank after 2 weeks. The tank has bright lights for 8 hrs in a row, aquasoil, and I conduct the EI approach with an all-in-one fertiliser, but no CO2. However, the tank is very shallow and I create a lot of water movement and surface agitation with a HOB filter. The Monte carlo is doing excellent; after 4 weeks it is starting to take off. I have a lot of other plant species in the tank already, including emersed ferns, to prevent algae.

I would stop dosing liquid CO2. If you fear algae, add more plants in your tank, even if its just temporarily until your MC takes off.

Light regime; I favour 8 hrs straight. Not an advocate of siestas, especially if dosing CO2.
If you like to enjoy the tank in the morning and evening, use a dimmer with time controller (8 hrs decent light, 2 hrs before en 2-4 hrs after very dim light).

EI approach is something to think about. In other words, overdose with fertilizers daily, followed by a big water change at the end of the week.

And finally, what I live by: good water movement. I know carpets can let go easily in the beginning, but ideally, you see some tiny movement of the leaves.

Good luck.

It's a 10 gallon tank with lots of plants. I was only doing the CO2 liquid because the CO2 regulator often turns itself off (I need to get a refill of the 5lb paintball canister I've got and use that but haven't gotten around to it). I'll post a full picture below but it's already kind of heavily planted. I've actually recently removed some plants into a larger tank I was starting, and I have some green algae but a nerite who cleans it up. The lighting I've changed so it gets a nice 8hrs of high light with an hour before and after of sunrise/sunset low light. One side of the tank has really good flow because of the HOB filter outflow. The other side is calmer. I've got Monte Carlo on both sides. I'll look into the EI approach though.

 

Liquid CO2 is not equivalent to or a substitute for pressurised CO2; not even close. It can work as a algaecide, but that's it.

 

Liquid CO2 is not equivalent to or a substitute for pressurised CO2; not even close. It can work as a algaecide, but that's it.

Okay, cool. I didn't know that. I just knew my plants did better when the tank was gravel once I started putting the liquid CO2 in.

If I try doing the EI approach and I'm using Thrive, would it just be one pump a day and a 50% water change every week? I'm seeing doses of individual nutrients but nothing saying how to do it with Thrive which has them all mixed together.

 

Dosage depends heavily on CO2, lights and plant-mass. So in your case: little, strong (although, I don't know the lumens or PAR of your lights), and modest respectively.

Here's a guideline:

Dosage per 40 litres
Lots of light (>0.5 Watt per litre) + CO2	5 ml per day
Little light (<0.5 Watt per litre) + CO2	0.5-2 ml per day
No CO2 supply	1-2 ml per week

This dosage suggestion is just a guideline. The dosage may have to be raised or lowered depending on the conditions in your tank in order to give you good results.

1 ml Makro Basic Estimative Index per 40 litres of tank water adds the following nutrients:
NO3	0.92 mg/l
PO4	0.17 mg/l
K	0.70 mg/l
Mg	0.025 mg/l

This is from the AquaRebell brand.

So 10 gallon is about 40 liters.... given your conditions.....I would say 3x a week 1ml of all-in-one, which seems to be what you are doing already. In case of doubt, or lack of results, add a bit more. The big water change is the key part. With MC it can take a while; but once it is going....it is going!

By the way: here is my go-to reference for planted tanks. The URL refers to EI: Analysis of the Estimative Index (EI) nutrient dosing approach

PS the performance of the liquid CO2 might be a correlation and not a causation. Or perhaps, it successfully attacked algae (including on leaves), which helped your plants. But it is not CO2.

 

So I’ve only just started dosing everyday and with the light on for a constant 8 hrs and I’m finally seeing progress! I’ve got new sprouts poking up from the ground so I guess the browning was a weird kind of melting of the old leaves? I’m used to seeing a different kind of melting (thinning, browning, mush) but this works, I suppose.

 

I tried monte carlo without Co2 and failed. Tried again with CO2 and more ferts and it worked out. You may just need to try again and use this a a test run. Try adding more ferts. Are you using all in 1 fert or do you have multiple elements?

 

I tried monte carlo without Co2 and failed. Tried again with CO2 and more ferts and it worked out. You may just need to try again and use this a a test run. Try adding more ferts. Are you using all in 1 fert or do you have multiple elements?

I've got a not-great CO2 thing right now that likes to turn itself off. But I switched from Thrive + to the APT that was suggested in another post. It's a leaner fertilizer and the plants are doing well now. Still a bit of melting here and there but I'm getting more new leaves popping up and have a scattering of decent-sized bits of it. It's taking its time but doing better than it was. Switching to APT also got all my other plants growing well too.

 

if you are getting new healthy gorwth/leaves but the other leaves are dying, i believe that is a nitrogen deficiency. could be wrong so double check but that means you have a nutrient deficiency. I am trying ti fix my own as that was happening to me. I bought all the seachem nutrient dosing bottles and am tryign to revise my fert schedule to see if i cant bring some plants back from the edge lol

 

if you are getting new healthy gorwth/leaves but the other leaves are dying, i believe that is a nitrogen deficiency. could be wrong so double check but that means you have a nutrient deficiency. I am trying ti fix my own as that was happening to me. I bought all the seachem nutrient dosing bottles and am tryign to revise my fert schedule to see if i cant bring some plants back from the edge lol

It's old melt from earlier that I was hesitant on messing with. Everything is growing bright green now. and it's just a matter of me untangling the old stuff that's died off without pulling up anything new. Like I said, the APT stuff I for is working well for my set up. All my other plants are gaining new leaves and everything. I just need to get my CO2 better as I've got a load of staghorn algae I'm fighting off currently.

 

i will try out the thrive APT and see if I dont massacre this new tissue culture of monte carlo lol

 

i will try out the thrive APT and see if I dont massacre this new tissue culture of monte carlo lol

It's called APT by 2hraquarist. I got the APT 3/APT complete. The Thrive + I was using before was too much, I suppose.
https://www.2hraquarist.com/products/apt3

 

Thanks for linking it for me, much appreciated!