Western to English

Hey guys and gals!! I ride a friend's horse about once a week and the horse (Cowboy)is currently having training issues, most of it is problems turning. He is currently trained in western and I was wanting to switch him to English. Would now be a good time? Is there any pointers you can give me?

 

What kind of turning problem does he have?

You can switch any time, though the transition will be easier at certain times along his Western training. How familiar are you with English riding?

 

He just doesn't like to turn or trot. He's not trained that much. I'm not familiar with english riding other than watching videos and reading practically every article there is, I have never rode english though as I haven't been given the opportunity but I'm going to ask to use the their English saddle next time we go over there. They prefer western so none of the horses are trained in English they just have a English saddle in fairly good condition lying around. (Not joking)

 

There's a lot more to English riding than using an English saddle. Why not take a few English lessons first?

Getting him to turn or trot won't magically be easy if you switch to English. It sounds like this horse needs a good trainer and some time in training.

 

We don't have the money for lessons. That's why my friend is letting us use her horses. Anyway I know how to hold your hands, how and where to sit, how to tack up, and how to adjust everything. I know how to train and I know the horse he's nice and is a quick learner (He learned follow me in 1 hour) but I just want to try a English saddle just to see which one I like better.

 

English riding involves a ton of more input from the rider. If you ride a horse English that only knows western, be prepared for a frustrated throw.

If you don't know posting and how to reign correctly it takes a bit of feel to get used to. Why are you so interested? If it's the dressage videos they are amazing, but incredibly trained horses. If it's jumping, then I totally get it. Good luck!

 

I just want to try different saddle to see which one is more comfortable for me and him. I'm not doing shows I just love horses and want to do family trail rides and hang around horses. Again I'm not doing shows I just want to try both saddles.

 

I don't think you'll get a good feel for whether you prefer English or Western without knowing what you're doing riding English.
It's not as simple as just tossing a different saddle on. They're 2 entirely different riding styles. I've tried both and while I prefer most things about English, I prefer the comfort of a Western saddle.
If you can't afford lessons, do you know anyone experienced in English who could give you some pointers?

I also wouldn't try to train a horse for English without learning it yourself first. I've trained Western horses for English and you need to have some knowledge of the riding style etc first.

 

Nope. What is so different that can't do it without spending 100 dollars a week for lessons that we can't always get to?!? My friend isn't the best but she isn't the worst. My mom and dad work and we are struggling to pay the bills so paying a lot for something I can do my self seams outrageous.

 

I know almost nothing about English riding but I know enough to know it's not something you can teach yourself. And it's CERTAINLY not something you can teach your horse without being almost an expert yourself. If you try to go about it yourself you'll end up with a very frustrated horse who has a thousand bad habits.

 

I know almost nothing about English riding but I know enough to know it's not something you can teach yourself. And it's CERTAINLY not something you can teach your horse without being almost an expert yourself. If you try to go about it yourself you'll end up with a very frustrated horse who has a thousand bad habits.

And a rider with bad habits!!

Seriously though..

If you just want to try both saddles then throw the English one on him and sit in it lol. Better to have someone experienced with English riding with you to help you adjust the stirrups properly and help you find your seat/leg position. You're used to a western saddle which holds your butt a little more and has the horn in front to hold on to. No "Oops" handles in English haha!

In all reality, the horse doesn't care what equipment you use. If he's not responding to your aids while he's wearing Western tack, he's not going to respond wearing English tack. The horse does not need a change in disciplines, he needs foundation work. Turning and moving more forward are basics that he'd need to know in any line of horse work. Fundamentally, basic aids in Western and English are.... the same! Hands, seat and legs.

I always recommend training from a coach in these situations. Ideally you would take lessons and that horse would spend some quality time with a trainer.

But when it comes down to it, for putting around in the arena or hacking out in the field it doesn't matter what saddle you put on him as long as you are comfortable, confident and secure with you're equipment. (And able to use your aids clearly, effectively and gently!)

Happy trails!

 

Thank You! Well I'm going to start training him in english next time we go over there.

 

Hah. Sounds like you already had your mind made up no matter what anyone on this forum said. My opinion was just to try out the saddle and ride the horse. In the end it doesn't matter what's between his back and your butt.

Training is a whole different thing..... Something I wouldn't recommend attempting with a green horse without guidance and experience.

However I certainly hope it works out for you, whatever you decide to do. Good luck!

 

Thank you, you are right I already was pretty sure which one I was going to do but I started the thread for advice on getting him used to it. You are very nice thank you for answering my questions.

 

I don't see how you're going to train him in English when you've never ridden that way before yourself, but best of luck!

And there is nothing wrong with using an English saddle when trail riding because it's more comfortable. It doesn't mean that you're riding English or that you trained him to ride English, it just means you're using a different saddle. And that's totally okay.

 

I'm just gonna put I different saddle on and make sure he's comfortable and get on. That's probably not necessarily training him in english, your right. But it won't hurt to try different aspects of riding. I'll let you all know how it goes if they let me use the english saddle. (There could be something wrong with it I don't know about.)

 

There's nothing wrong, it's a little less comfortable due to the higher angle of the knees. You're going to want a tighter bend in your knee with an English saddle. It helps with posting, which you can do, the horse won't understand, but may actually appreciate it. If the horse isn't used to jumping I wouldn't do it. It sucks quite a bit to get a last second refusal. Lying on your back wondering why you can't breathe gets old. It's even worse if the horse feels bad and raises his head to try and keep you on the saddle. Best case you're riding on its neck if you're light enough, worst case it sends you into the ugliest acrobatics exposition of your life.

Always always always wear a helmet. Don't worry about the lingo. The horse knows walk, jog, lope etc. Don't use trot, canter, etc. As it will only confuse the horse at first.

Make sure that girth strap is tight. Check and re check. English saddles seem to be slightly less forgiving.

 

The bottom of your stirrup iron should be right at your anklebone when your leg is just hanging. The key is TIGHT legs around your horse. Lots of beginners prefer a slightly shorter stirrup so you don't feel like you're reaching for them all the time. The stirrup should stay at the ball of your foot and keep those heels DOWN! You don't want your foot going through the stirrup.

Also entirely possible to post in a western saddle. I used to have a trail riding buddy who rode Western while I rode English. She posted as much as I did!

Agreed, Wraithen! Girths for English saddles are tougher than Western cinches.
Don't make it real tight down at the barn, walk him a bit up to where you ride and tighten again. Then check once more once you get on.
Elastic goes on the left! (unless its on both ends of the girth! )

It sucks quite a bit to get a last second refusal. Lying on your back wondering why you can't breathe gets old. It's even worse if the horse feels bad and raises his head to try and keep you on the saddle. Best case you're riding on its neck if you're light enough, worst case it sends you into the ugliest acrobatics exposition of your life.

Yessssssssss! Even worse when they dump you right on top of the fence.. lol!

 

I think the most pain I was ever in from riding was when we were practicing 2 point. (Horse jockey stance.) My horse was on the large size for a quarter and he stumbled in the arena. As soon as he realized I was flying forward he tried to stop me by moving his head as high as possible. I believe they said 4 flips before I hit on my back, flipped to my stomach, and bounced back onto my back. Felt like I wasn't breathing for almost a minute. Me and that horse were mortal enemies until that point. He bit me when I was saddling him for the first time a month earlier. Lifted me up by my back!
Anyway, after that debacle he actually walked over, draped the reigns in my face and nudged me. Poor guy thought he killed me I think. Good thing young kids bounce. I'd probably be dead if that happened to me now.

 

Or at least you'd FEEL dead! Yikes! Glad you were okay!

I've had a few nasty spills in my day too. Not the most painful one but definitely my least favorite was the horse falling on top of me. We were out trail riding and the horse slipped in some mud. Legs in the air, rolled over top of me and I wound up following her the whole way back to the barn. She'd had enough I guess! Wasn't about to wait for me, anyway.

I'm just gonna put I different saddle on and make sure he's comfortable and get on. That's probably not necessarily training him in english, your right. But it won't hurt to try different aspects of riding. I'll let you all know how it goes if they let me use the english saddle. (There could be something wrong with it I don't know about.)

I'm definitely interested to hear how this goes! Keep us updated on practicing turning and jogging/trotting with him too!
How often does he get ridden? By more than just you and your friend? Lessons?

 

Thanks for responding and mom won't let me ride without a helmet anyways☺. Thanks for letting me know where the stirrups should be, it's probably important . I'm not going to do any jumping (other than maybe a log in the way on a trail....much later). About the falls, flips, and breath....ouch! I haven't fallen off, been bucked, reared, kicked, or bit....yet. He doesn't get ridden but whenever I can come over (ideally once every week but with work we can't go over there that much) and my friend doesn't actually ride him, it's her brother and he barely rides him (1 time in 2 weeks maybe). He's working on another horse. I'll take pictures next time I go if you want me to.

 

Man my instructor was rough. I'd been bucked onto a pony's neck, stayed on for countless rears and bucks, tons of falls and stepped on plenty within my first year. The bite happened my second year. I've even taken a tumble off a stallion at a trot standing bareback once. ( I told them I couldn't do it yet.)

Course, he was also old school when it came to the horses. First thing he said when my mom started screaming at him and showed him the teeth impressions was "well, is his hand ok?" Mom was confused until she realized that Toby was basically asking how hard I hit the horse for biting me.

 

That's actually kind of funny. My 9 year old sister was riding and horses hoof was bothering him so he bucked her, she somehow slided down the his neck and once her feet were on the ground she stepped back then he ran off. At that point every body was over there and after she was okay everything set in and she cried for a moment then went to help catch the horse.

 

Odd as it is I've never come off if the horse was trying to knock me off. ( I did jump from a terrified green broke after it got bit by a dog that was trying to "help" me. After 30 seconds I figured if it fell on me or broke for the woods I was better off hiding under the lawn mower.)

 

Lol.. Well I don't know the next time we can go over there. I would think the 13 because mom is off work but my brother has a shoot (4-h shooting club). So other than that I have no idea when we can go over there. They like to cancel ALL the time, maybe the 14?? What breed is your guys horses?

 

I've never owned any. I've ridden a couple of ponies, (because why not start off the hard way, huh toby?), a sweetheart appaloosa mare, a sweetheart old quarter horse mare, some bull headed quarter geldings, a proud but gentle all black thoroughbred stallion, a couple of paints and mustangs, and a green broke Morgan I believe. My instructor boarded a lot of horses in addition to his collection so I got to ride most of them. As you could guess I got really used to quarters and loved riding them as a kid, but I'm not really a horse person anymore. They way I interacted with them lines up more with a rancher than most horse people. If the belly was pushed out while tightening the girth strap, they got a jab or two low on the ribs to suck it in. If they got their mouths too close to me while saddling they got threatened with a kid sized fist. My wife is a vet tech and some of the people are so soft with their horses, it makes me think the horse never respected them.

It was never about violence in action with the horses, just zero tolerance for some things. I didn't punish the ones that reared or bucked. They just learned I was more bullheaded. I eventually got along with all of them. Me and the one that bit me were a really good team after a while. I was the only person in the world that could get him to walk backwards. I was also the only one he couldn't get off by rearing until he was too tired to rear anymore Mike was a jerk, but he was my favorite.

 

That's a lot of horses!! Well I've rode a pony mix of some sort, a old (24) paint mix, and cowboy the horse I'm staying with until I get my own is a 3 year old paint horse/ quarter horse mix and he's a stallion but is really nice and gentle.

 

Hey guys, remember that shoot that my brother had to go to? It's cancelled!! Which I would say that means we can go over there tomorrow but my mom works at a warehouse and gets up at 3a.m to go to work and she gets home at 3 o'clock p.m(if nothing else pops up) and she is constantly lifting heavy things so when she comes home she hurts really bad because she has fibromyalgia. She does get tomorrow off but she might still hurt and they might cancel. Sunday we will probably be doing something together because that's the only day that both parents will certainly be home. (Sometimes dad doesn't get the week end off). But that's okay because they might cancel too. Well I'll let you know when I have a date of when we are going over there.

 

HI guys he is being bred until sometime in November so.... I can't start training him until he gets back (obviously) but on the bright side she thought it was a great idea and on the down side it doesn't have stirrups right now . But I can still start training him with the saddle.