Wen growth food.. good or bad? Question

  1. hollie1505 Well Known Member Member

    Although I have had goldies pretty much all my life, I have only really recently started to learn about them specifically as opposed to fish in general or applying my tropical knowledge to them. this thread will probably be a lot of little, confusing questions but I am a little confused by what I have researched.

    I have heard of people feeding their fancies Wen growth food and although I haven't seen any I am wondering if it should be fed to goldies with a wen? If not wen growth food then is their a food that is good for their wens? I think what I am asking is, is there a way to look after wens? should they be a certain size? Do they mean a fish is healthy or unhealthy? I have read about them having to be removed if they grow too large so I am assuming that wen growth food is not good for them.

    I do not particularly want my oranda to have a big wen, but I don't really know much about wens and information is hard to come by. If I should be doing something to look after the wen then I want to do it. Much of the information I have read is rather conflicting and I trust you fellow fishlorians more than any other site to answer my queries.

    thanks in advance for any advice and information and i apologise for my rambling list of questions.x
     
  2. Jomolager Well Known Member Member

    I visit only one other fish forum. (I stumbled on it when my Fancytail stopped eating and I got limited knowledgeable advice here) You might not want your Oranda's wen grow too much. On that other website they have instructions as to how to surgically trim the wen because it can obscure Oranda's vision.

    In other words, be careful what you wish for :)
     

  3. poeticinjustices Well Known Member Member

    I'm not sure what brand of food you're talking about but often food designed for wen growth is high in protein. This is good for growth but too much protein can be bad for goldfish - especially their swim bladders. For awhile, I was feeding my goldies Hikari Lionhead. Personally, I will never feed my goldfish Hikari again. Every type of Hikari food I tried made them floaty and after speaking with the breeder at ECR, she also confirmed that she has witnessed this issue in Hikari foods as well. It could also be an issue with their ingredients, which are shockingly bad for such "high end" food, but that's the general issue with wen growth food.

    There are a lot of other ways to influence wen growth indirectly. It does start with diet, but remember goldies require a lot of veggies (I think it's supposed to be 70% veg) and that makes high protein foods problematic. Water quality, adequate room and diet will all influence growth, not just of the wen but everything. I'm done with wen growth food personally. I take care of them to the best of my ability and I let their genetics dictate the rest of their growth.

    And, yes, sometimes wens can get too big and become problematic. They can cover the eyes, mouth and I've even read about the gills being covered too. They can be trimmed back if this happens, but personally, I'm not going to encourage wen growth. I just keep them healthy and loved and, if their wen grows, then it grows :)

    I don't know if you noticed when you looked at Lolo (formerly Lola), but he has hardly any wen. This has not changed at all since the day I got him, it's just not meant to be. Meanwhile, my other goldies wen's periodically get bigger.

    Side note - wens grow in growth spurts and they start out white. So you'll see a little bit of a white area on the wen or in the folds. It can look scary but this does color up in a few days and is nothing to worry about. The way I've witnessed it on mine, you can kind of tell it's a part of his wen and not growing on top of it. It doesn't get stringy or fuzzy either, just looks like a patch of white wen :)
     
  4. hollie1505 Well Known Member Member

    I don't want Klaus' wen to grow, i didn't know if it was a bad thing if it didn't. The only reason I would want it to grow is for his health. Sorry, I wasn't very clear on that. He is the first Goldie I have had who even has any type of wen and the more I searched, the more confused I became! I read something, somewhere (sorry, not very specific I know) that mentioned the growth food and I wondered if it was needed more than anything else.

    I love my fishies just the way they are, that isn't to say I don't like it when they change! I am just trying to do what's right by the fish. I had read a lot about removal and problem wens so assumed what I had read must have either been wrong advice or bad advice but I wanted to be sure. Now I know that it causes a little more harm than good, I will not be encouraging growth.

    I must admit I feed my tropical fish a much wider variety of food than my Goldies, although I am pretty sure they can eat most of it. They get a pretty standard Goldfish flake most of the time as I am having trouble finding suitable, quality food locally and am not too sure what to search for online. I do soak their food in Garlic Guard on one day, Vitachem the next. They get bloodworms on bloodworm day but I have lots of daphnia, brine shrimp, tubifex, earth worms, algae wafers, spirulina, and lots of other things I can't think of off the top of my head. As you mention protein, I'm guessing Bloodworms once a week is enough and I shouldn't feed daphnia, brine shrimp, tubifex or earth worms (or switch out the bloodworms) but spirulina and algae wafers must have less protein? Am I on the right track here? I want to vary their diet more but am a little afraid to do so, if I'm honest!

    Lolo and Klaus have pretty similar wens and I like the round look of their little heads! It will be interesting to see how/if it develops. but as Jomolager says, I should be careful what I wish for!

    Thanks Poeticinjustices for the advice on the growth spurts there, that would have had me very worried if I saw it and no doubt there would have been a panicked thread somewhere in the future!

    Thanks for all the info. I really am clueless here!xx
     

  5. poeticinjustices Well Known Member Member

    hollie1505 - I apologize if I've given you the impression that all wen growth food is more bad than good. As I mentioned, it does depend on the brand and the issue for me could have been related to something else in the Hikari. With diet, it is all about variety and balance. But to answer your question, it is not necessary. To be absolutely clear, I am fairly new to fishkeeping (though I would not call it dabbling) and I am only just starting to learn a little more about certain foods and such. As always, getting input from multiple people is important and to do your own research from a variety of sources. Which is why we are all here in the first place. And if the information I have given above is incorrect, I hope that other people will post corrections.

    I can look for the links I read that mentioned high protein food being problematic for mature goldfish, if you'd like. Give me a moment to find them again.

    Here's one of them.
    http://www.wetwebmedia.com/fwsubwebindex/gldfshmalnut.htm
    http://www.exoticgoldfish.net.html
    And, in general, I have used goldfish-emergency
    http://www.exoticgoldfish.net/care.html
    And much of the information about about goldies and in general I've found here and, more recently, GoldfishKeepers.com.
    Some info on the goldfish GI tract
    http://www.solidgoldfish.com/2012/07/the-goldfish-digestive-system.html
    http://watergardenclubst.org/goldfish.html

    I apologize I cannot find the swim bladder/high protein info but the way I figure it is if a food cannot be well digested, it will cause blockage, which can contribute to swim bladder issues. It also would depend on the type of protein I'd think but, once again, balance is something that is not often argued against. I just don't like Hikari foods, I feel like both the filler and the higher protein content have worsened swim bladder/buoyancy issues.
     
  6. HappyKnitter Member Member

    Wen growth in fish is genetics if parents had large wens , thier offsprings will too . Now about wen growth food to me is like shampoo for baldness to make your hair grow . It only work if you have the genes; You are feeding them good and healthy food , no matter how much you feed them its only going to grow as much it genetics tell it too.
     
  7. Adam55 Well Known Member Member

    I think one problem facing oranda is that most people prefer a pronounced wen, hollie1505. There have been mistakes made by overly eager breeders looking to cash in on that, in my opinion. If I had oranda - and I don't - I would be on your side. I like it smaller. Are you hoping it does not get too large because of the risk of infection with an overgrown wen?
     

  8. aHumanBeing Well Known Member Member

    I too would like to know about overgrown Wens. I don't have anything to contribute really other than that i've seen videos of wen trimmings and it looks horrifying. I wonder what is in those particular foods that makes the Wen grow?
     
  9. Rivieraneo Moderator Moderator Member

    Hello, in respect to the OP, please stay on topic, ive removed any posts and content not relevant to this thread.
     
  10. hollie1505 Well Known Member Member

    @poeticinjustices I can only thank you for your advice that i know is given with the best intentions and i find your replies thorough and explained in a way that I personally can understand. You have clearly done your research and I truly appreciate the time you give to me. How long you have had fish has nothing to do with the knowledge you have. Some people have fish for many years (I am one of them) without knowing a thing, whereas the amount of time you spend with your fish, caring for them, researching them and giving others advice is priceless. You have given me a lot of in sight into goldies which I will be sure to read through all your information and links you provided :) and I know you have been given advice from experienced goldie keepers, which brings me to...

    @HappyKnitter thanks for the information, I had no idea about the genetics of a wen and it has settled a lot of my concerns about his "brainless face".x

    @Adam55 I only wanted my Orands's wen to grow if it would improve his life. I did not have any real idea if a wen was an area of the fish that needed specific care, food, treatment etc. Now I understand the risks involved in wen growth I am more afraid of it growing than I thought I would be. H e has practically no wen at the moment and I was just making sure that was okay and he was healthy too.xx