Weird Loss.

TheFishmonger

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I did a 25% water change last night on my 5.5 gallon with the 5 celestial pearl danios and the 6 red cherry shrimp. I had not changed the water for two days. I am still cycling the tank. All my shrimps that survived the first 4 days kept growing, most seem to have molted (saw two) and they are monsters compared to when I got them a week and a half ago. They mostly feed on the hornwort, moss balls, flakes and I drop some bottom feeder pellets from time to time.

Today as I turned up the light in the morning, there was a shrimp turned on it's side and kicking. The rest came to see what was going on and kept a distance as I fended them off. Soon enough the shrimp turned on it's back, so I put it in a net to protect it from being torn apart. The shrimp died, which makes me wonder what went wrong.

I keep ammonia under 0.25 ppm, it's been two weeks I have not seen nitrites and nitrates. I do 25% water changes daily.. and keep the temperature between 71-78, with the most common value being 74-75. pH is always between 6 to under 7.

Could it be that..

1) It tried to molt with last nights water change but failed?
2) Sudden water change after 2 days not doing one affected it?
3) Starvation? I don't feed them pellets every day and I see them chew on flakes and hornwort.
4) That random red cherry death?
5) I added a little too much prime with my water change?

The shrimp have grown rather big, and one colored up deep red. The one that died was big as well and had a nice color. I noticed a white line half way between her red body. It was probably a female because of her look and color.. I have lost almost all the good looking female ones, I only have one deep red female the rest are ugly looking males.

The fact that they came looking for it, made me think they are probably hungry so I dropped two pellets.
 

richie.p

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Hi there for it's not going well for you but Shrimp in a 2week old tank is never going to work and the chances of the others surviving is slim, your constant water changes will inevitably lead to shock and death, shrimp tanks should be at least 2monthes old before you attempt to put them in, apart from dripping them into a mature tank for 4hrs theres not a lot you can do for their survival
 
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TheFishmonger

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Hi there for it's not going well for you but Shrimp in a 2week old tank is never going to work and the chances of the others surviving is slim, your constant water changes will inevitably lead to shock and death, shrimp tanks should be at least 2monthes old before you attempt to put them in, apart from dripping them into a mature tank for 4hrs theres not a lot you can do for their survival
It sucks because I read online that shrimp tanks don't have to be cycled and that RCS are hardy. Misinformation I guess. So what can I do to keep them alive for another 6 weeks? Give them away? I don't know anyone who owns a fish tank and major pet shops already turned that offer down.. So they need to survive through 0.25 ppm ammonia. This is where I could use experienced shrimp owners advice to make even those slimmest chances possible. What would you do if you were in this situation and how would you fight it out?
 
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TheFishmonger

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Agree with @richie.p plus ANY amount of ammonia is quite deadly to shrimp. You aren’t cycled yet.
Yeah, I noticed after I got the shrimp. Because I read online misleading information that shrimp tanks don't have to be cycled. Should I move the fish to drop the ammonia? Do less water changes? Feed less? Decrease the temperature? All of the above?
 

richie.p

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You need to keep up your water changes obviously for the cycle and lowering ammonia so to try and keep them alive and not shock them any more drip your water changes from the bucket to the tank slowly make sure the water is the same temp or within a point or two, this way the shrimp will adjust each time you water change, keep an eye on Nitrits Nitraits dont leave these rise to much especially the nitrites, the shrimp will cope with Nitraits of 20ppm may e a bit higher
 

midna

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i think all those water changes are really hurting your shrimp. shrimp tend to molt after water changes, so if they aren't ready to molt yet, then they might have molting problems. plus in such a small tank, 25% daily water changes is a lot. it could cause ph swings, temperature swings... they like a stable environment. i cut my water changes down to about 25% once a week. too little or too much calcium can also cause these problems.
 
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TheFishmonger

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Great advice, I will cut down on the water changes because I usually remove 1/4 at least of the tank every day and I will drip or until I get a drip do very little removing and adding at a time. Perhaps I will get an extra bucket and two drips, one will add one will remove water. This way the water change will be continuous at the same rate.

What do you think of keeping the temperature low, will that help with the 0.25 ppm ammonia? I mean the ammonia is between 0-0.25 ppm, the color is lighter than the 0.25 ppm.
 

richie.p

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Temperature 22.5 you can go a bit lower, the ammonia chart is so close on the 0.25&0 so chances its 0 , good advise from @midna if you can reduce the changes and monitor your perameters the better, make sure you dont overdose with prime as that will kill so work out exactly how much is needed for each change, in fact if you have a 10ltr container you put 4 drops out of a 1ml syringe and that's perfect,
 

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Not sure where the OP is from but I have seen at my lfs here in the USA shrimp water. I am sure it’s a gimmick that it’s just adjusted RO water but a couple bottles could fill a small tank or container. You could keep them in there-until your tank cycles. IDK if this would work but if might be worth a shot. The other option is add prime every other day to get your ammonia to be non toxic. Be careful not to over dose the prime.
 

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Is there any reason you can't add nitrifying bacteria from your other tanks to help cycle the shrimp tank?
 
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TheFishmonger

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Is there any reason you can't add nitrifying bacteria from your other tanks to help cycle the shrimp tank?
Yes, I just set up both my tanks this month after being away from the hobby for 10 years. The other tank is not cycled as well. But the fish are doing way better than the shrimp. Tried looking for some media from large pet stores but was turned down. Soon as the 20 gallons cycles I will add media, but it seems all ammonia and nitrites are consumed by the growing plants. I feed the 20 gallons quite often, but the ammonia does not rise. It might take an other 4 weeks to get the bacteria going. The 5.5 gallons is planted as well with 2 hornwort, 3 moss balls which is why the ammonia is kept low I guess. So I am assuming the shrimp losses were from the 25% daily water changes.

The fish will survive no doubt, I was prepared to cycle with fish.. The shrimp caught me off guard, I was not prepared for them neither did I do in-depth research on them and the information I read about them was wrong. But that's the internet, there is a lot of good information but also a lot of bad advice. Which is the main reason I joined this forum.
 
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TheFishmonger

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Update.

I decided to change my strategy and revert back to the 25% water changes. I am updating most of my threads with observations along the way in order to share my experience and knowledge. Yes it is true that shrimp are very sensitive, but I cannot allow ammonia to increase by neglecting a daily water change. The day I posted this I lost two shrimp after not doing water changes for two days. For a week I was doing daily even twice a day 25% water changes and added ice to decrease the temperature.. and I didn't have a shrimp loss.

Ammonia rose to 0.50 ppm from 0.25 ppm and I lost two shrimp. Shock or not shock, it all irrelevant either way, because the shrimp will die from increasing ammonia if I change 10% every week.. In theory shrimp like stable environments, but in practice doing less water changes will certainly lead to shrimp death due to increased ammonia. Also I cannot abstain from feeding past 2 days. Like I said earlier when I did daily 25% daily water changes, I had 0 losses. I will stick with this strategy until I cycle. It has worked best for me.
 

richie.p

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Obviously you didn't read my post above I told you to carry on with the water changes due to ammonia and to drip your water changes this would have saved your shrimp, why you stopped I dont know
 

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Can u move the danios and just keep the shrimp in the 5.5? Thatll help keep ammonia down a bit
 
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TheFishmonger

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Obviously you didn't read my post above I told you to carry on with the water changes due to ammonia and to drip your water changes this would have saved your shrimp, why you stopped I dont know
I wasn't talking about your post. I posted about these shrimp in several threads before this one. I am collectively responding to those thoughts here. Just to clariffy, I agree with your posts. I do not disagree.
 
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TheFishmonger

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Can u move the danios and just keep the shrimp in the 5.5? Thatll help keep ammonia down a bit
It is a very good idea, but I am not sure if the celestial pearl danios will become snack for the black ruby barbs in the 20 gallon.
 
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