We Have Lift-off - Good News & Bad News

GOOD NEWS: Day 4 of ZymBac treatment - everything looks promising....I just tested water parameters and they read: Ammon.50 ppm; Nitrate.0ppm; Nitrite .25 ppm. This is the first time ever I have had a Nitrite reading, ammonia seems to be climbing, I assume tank is starting to cycle. But what do I know. What are the ideal readings??


BAD NEWS- the red area on Neptune's tail (plus a little more)- is frayed this morning. He was perfect last night. (Betta Mom is pulling hair out - doing primal screams in a padded closet :'() I should have known it was too good to be true.

Could these water parameteers precipitated the fraying of the tail?? (ie) Nitrite poisoning - I'm a little too shook up and frustrated to really believe something is going right - it has only been 3 months..LOL :-\

Well having had a few minutes to compose myself, and discuss with my hubby - at his suggestion we decided to get a hospital tank. Neptune needs medication bad, and I think I will use Maracyn Plus again just because it is so easy to dose in these odd size tanks, with Amquel to reduce water changes.

My question today: Does the hospital tank need a heater and a filter? I will have to depend on Walmart, since I am not going to put this treatment off for a couple of days waiting for Foster & Smith, so I could be limited.

PS: I am worried about having a second tank in the house, when Neptune is cured and gets sent back to his home --- ahhhhh - stay away from fish stores!! LOL

Thanks for you help. Val

 

Your tank is beginning to cycle, but .5 Ammonia is really too high-- do a partial water change (I would do 50%, but you decide).

Yes the water parameters will make the tail fray-- it is more finrot, which is caused by stress, and the cycle process stresses the fish.

It is a good idea to have a hospital tank, because meds can stop or slow the cycle.

And yes it needs a heater, I didn't use my filter because I couldn't get the carbon out of the cartridges-- so filter with no carbon or at least an airstone.

PS-- finrot sets in fast (yes overnight) and will get out of control if not treated right away.

Good luck.

Ideal readings
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate less than 20 ppm

 

Yes you do need a heater and any small filter will do. A cheap one that is small and even aerates the tank is a Whisper 3I internal filter. I use them even for my 5 gallon tank and it cleans just fine. You should be able to get one for around $10 or so. It works by blowing air up the filter intake tube and pushing the water up into the filter. It comes included with the air pump. Just use a piece of filter floss or filter sponge instead of the carbon filter that comes with it.

Your ideal reading for a cycle is ammonia - 0 , nitrite - 0 , nitrate - less than 20  
If you have this then your tank is fully cycled.

 

Thank you..am I correct that if I take Neptune out and put him into a hospital tank, I can just let the ammonia go crazy? I am going to Walmart within the hour, so he will be in a new tank on meds early this afternoon. It saddens me since we had made such progress.....oh well, get right back at it....I am determined Neptune will heal, survive and thrive .............it's me I am worried about..LOL :-[

 

Yes, as long as there is no fish in the cycling tank let the ammonia and nitrite do as they must. I think with no fish you may need to add just a little ammonia each day to keep the process going. I've never cycled that way so maybe someone who has can instruct you.  Just use Prime or AmQuel+ water conditioner in your hospital tank and you should be ammonia and nitrite free for at least 3-4 days so you can medicate without diluting it with frequent water changes.

 

We hope Neptune gets back on the mend again and look forward to when he's healthy and in his cycled tank. Good luck on both fronts.

 

Well the cycling seems to be moving ahead nicely ammon .50 and Nitrites between.25 & .50....yay. I think I will add a bit more ZymBac since Neptune is no longer in there. I am not sure if I want to dick around with ammonia??? Anyone out there done that?

 

Well the cycling seems to be moving ahead nicely ammon .50 and Nitrites between.25 & .50....yay. I think I will add a bit more ZymBac since Neptune is no longer in there. I am not sure if I want to dick around with ammonia??? Anyone out there done that?

I still need to get a bottle of that stuff, but probably will order it when i'm going to use it so it'll last longer. I think it's worth a shot. At the least you'll be building knowledge of how ZymBac works.

 

I still need to get a bottle of that stuff, but probably will order it when i'm going to use it so it'll last longer. I think it's worth a shot. At the least you'll be building knowledge of how ZymBac works.

So far so good.......it seems to be working quickly as well. $10 and $3.85 delivery, although since they screwed up my order, they overnighted it for free!! I love free!There is quite a bit in the bottle also, so since I am doing fishless cycling now, I thought adding a Tbsp or so every second/third day would help things along. And I love liquid meds/treatments - they are so much easier to dose.

I will keep you posted. Val

 

You can't beat free..

 

Your tank is beginning to cycle, but .5 Ammonia is really too high-- do a partial water change (I would do 50%, but you decide).

Yes the water parameters will make the tail fray-- it is more finrot, which is caused by stress, and the cycle process stresses the fish.

It is a good idea to have a hospital tank, because meds can stop or slow the cycle.

And yes it needs a heater, I didn't use my filter because I couldn't get the carbon out of the cartridges-- so filter with no carbon or at least an airstone.

PS-- finrot sets in fast (yes overnight) and will get out of control if not treated right away.

Good luck.

Ideal readings
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate less than 20 ppm

I hope you didn't do any water changes. .50 is really not that high. It's not dangerously high anyway. If it get's passed 1.0 then I would do a water change because that where it gets dangerous. I'm glad it's working out for you. If you see a halt in it though even with the extra added treatment maybe put some fish food in there so it has something to nosh on. You also have it on biological filter though, so that already has established bacteria, so I don't think you'll have too much of a problem with the fishless tank for awhile.

Another thing is even though you are putting him in a hosp tank it is uncycled remember and even with the meds, being an uncycled tank you could still have a problem with him getting over it again. I hope you won't, but I don't want you to get your hopes up with the meds working right away. They may not. I don't want to be a bearer of negativity because god knows I try to think positive all the time. I'm just trying to give you a heads up about it. Good luck and keep us posted though I know you will.   Natalie

 

Thanks, Nat. Since the tank is "fishless" I am just letting it go, no water changes. I just want to get it cycled. I have used AmQuel Plus as well as stress coat to treat the water initially, and put 1/8 tsp of AmQuel yesterday and today ( it says when you are medicating this is supposed to help), and as you prob read, a tiny bit of aqu. salt. Maracyn Plus treats day 1-3-5. I might leave him in his new tank for another week, using Amquel, etc. We'll see how it goes.

Thanks for heads up, cuz ya, I do see myself looking for a miracle!! Val

 

DON'T do any water changes until your tank cycles. If you do a water change it'll wipe out the ammonia and nitrite and it will never cycle, trust me, I've been there!

Yes, Neptune will get worse as long as he's in an uncycled tank, esp since it's just now starting to cycle. If I were you I'd move him to a separate tank until that one cycles.

No, you do not need a heater or filter. It may be recommended, but it's not absolutely necessary. Spartacus (and all my other previous Bettas) did just fine without them. It's only going to be a temporary thing until your tank cycles. Just monitor the water in your hospital tank and clean it when necessary and he'll be fine.

Also, if you use the AmQuel+ in a tank that has not cycled, it will never cycle. You need high Ammonia followed by high Nitrite spikes in order for it to cycle, and the AmQuel+ will wipe out those readings. It's fine to use in the hospital tank, and an established tank that's already cycled, but not an uncycled one.

 

I wrote that last post kinda dahhhhhhhhhhh! My 6 g is cycling - no water changes

Neptune is in 1.66g.....with AmQuel Plus & aquarium salt & Vita Chem in treated water.........also no water changes. the AmQuel says when you are medicating, you can add a dose every 24 hours - so I am adding 1/8+tsp just to be sure ammonia, etc stays down.

I decided to "feed" the 6 gallon instead of adding more ZymBac - less$$, prob as effective.

 

Cycling seems to be moving along - todays readins are Ammon .5; Nitrite 1.9 and Nitrates between 20 & 40. This is the first time there have been Nitrate readings. Does that sound right?? We are on day 6 since adding Zymbac. I test every second day.

 

Where can I get this Zymbac stuff-- this seems fast. Are you adding ammonia too??? I want some!!!!

 

This is the link to Kordon website. It costs only $10.17, they will ship it any way you want. It has a shelf life of 6 months, and does not need to be refrigereated. I came upon this quite by accident, have read the whole website ( and posted about it on this forum) and I am sure it is the same as BioSpira.

No I am not adding ammonia, I put in a couple of bloodworms every second day. I also poured some of it over the bio wheel as suggested to speed things up.

Read the info on the website, it is very interesting.

Are these readings how it is supposed to go?? Thx

 

Yeah that sounds about right. Hopefully the nitrites will start lowering now that you are starting to show nitrates. I wouldn't want the nitrites to go up to much higher then that. Natalie

 

It is good that you have nitrAtes...  and yes this is how it is supposed to go.... Increase in NitrIte, decrease in Ammonia, Increase in NitrAtes, Decrease in NitrItes... to put it in a nutshell.  I think I might order some because my main tank is taking FOREVER to cycle, and my office tank took 6 weeks!

 

LOL...My 6 gallon has been up since last week in Jan :-\...then Neptune got fin rot so I was medicating. This seemed like the only way it would possibly happen.

 

My last reading was April 25. Today it is: Ammon. .25pp/Nitrite.1.0 ppm & Nitrate 5.0 ppm. Am I correct in thinking that it is progressing correctly??

ZymBac has been in 9 days.

Neptune still has a little red on his tail. His course of Maracyn Plus ended yesterday. He is in the 3 g, I am going to do a 30% water change and monitor him for a while with just clean water. Hopefully in a week or so, the 6 gallon will be cycled and he can go home!! And then Storm can move into the 3 gal. ( well I hope - I want to be optimistic in his regard). :-[

I am amazed at how Rose and Phlox & CherryRose & BettaCpl all manage so many tanks........this is like a second job.......well I am now retired so it is like a first job!! Good thing it is rewarding! We are building up good Karma for sure!!

 

LOL.. it's a lot of work.. but you know the crazy part -- if I had the room right now, we'd put at least 3 more tanks in.

 

LOL....I think I would too!

 

Trust me if I had the space I would definitely get another one. A female this time. Natalie

 

ROFL Yes it is a lot of work, but......still...., every time a meet a new betta I want to bring it home. (sigh)

CherryRose ;D

 

Last night water parameters; Ammon. 0ppm; Nitrite a shade over .25 ppm; Nitrate 0ppm.

Am I right to think Nitrite should be 0 and Nitrates 20? On the 25th Nitrates were 50...........is there something I can do or will this straighten itself out? I add a wee bit of fish food every couple days.

 

Last night water parameters; Ammon. 0ppm; Nitrite a shade over .25 ppm; Nitrate 0ppm.

those parameters sound like a tank in the middle of the cycle. the next few tests, hopefully will see nitrites go down to 0 and nitrates up to 5 or 10.

 

Hey guys...today's water parameters on this 6 gallon tank are now: Ammon. 0ppm; Nitrite .25 ppm & Nitrate 0ppm,

It seems to me the Nitrates should be moving up and the Nitrites down...right? Do these readings look like mid cycle progress? I am going to add some more Zymbac I think hurry it along.

 

looks like a minI cycle to me-- sorry!

 

Take readings every 2 days for about a week and you'll be able to see where you are in the cycle.

 

On April 27th Nitrites were 1.0 and Nitrates were 5.0.....Ammon was ,25 on that day......I thought Nitrates didn't show up until almost cycled?

Did I miss something?  I haven't tested every day.rose is right, it makes you crazy.

I see jendayI fed her tank twice a day...I didn't do it that often.please tell me I am not all of kilter because of that??

 

I read to add food every 12 hours, but I think the worst that feeding it less would do is slow things down.

 

OMG I am soooooooooo tired of slow - whatever happened to instant gratification?? LOL

 

OMG I am soooooooooo tired of slow - whatever happened to instant gratification?? LOL

lol.. they put it in a pouch and made it expensive to ship.

 

I didn't always feed my tank twice a day, only when I thought about it

I also didn't use any products to move my cycle along, either. The manager at my LFS talked me out of buying Bio-Spira from him even tho he carries it (and he's talked me out of buying other expensive products there too, lol) and offered me some gunk from the filter in one of his freshwater tanks when my tank was ready.

When I took Cujo out of the tank the ammonia was at about 1. Then I started adding the flake food. The ammonia climbed to around 2. Shortly after that I got a nitrite reading, but it was low - .25. That's when I got the filter gunk and added it. After that my nitrAtes sky-rocketed to 40, I guess from the crud. My ammonia stayed at 2, nitrItes at .25 for about a week. Then I lost my nitrite reading, and three days later I lost my ammonia reading and my nitrates were down to 20. So it sounds like things happened a little backwards for me, losing the nitrites before the ammonia. But maybe the different bacterias were all in there doing their thing at different rates?

So I guess it took my tank about 4 weeks to cycle, and 2 of those weeks were without fish. At first I wasn't sure that getting the filter sludge was working, and some people thought maybe it was a waste. But I guess the LFS manager might actually know what he's doing?? lol

 

I suppose different factors can act as 'sliders' of sorts to slide the ammonia and/or nitrite curves backwards or forwards in the cycle. that is interesting how it worked for you.

very cool to find a LFS manager with some know-how.. a far cry from our petco.

 

well I tested the cycling 6 this morning...Ammon. is )ppm; Nitrites 0ppm ( that is down) and Nitrates 0ppm......so something is happening. Am I now waiting for Nitrates to go up? Or could I be cycled. ???

Second question: what do I do when it is cycled?? Do I do a partial water change before adding Mr Neptune??


I re-read the instructions for Zymbac and it says for faster cycling you should add a bit more every day. Well I didn't do that, maybe that is why it is taking so long. Well actually it is only 2 weeks & a couple days - it just seems like forever. If Neptune wouldn't have been on meds, I could have left him in there for the cycle, with water changes, is that right??

 

you might be cycled.. but i'd do a test tommorrow or the next day and be sure. if the levels are all good, i'd not think that you need a pwc before adding neptune. probably was best on him, even not on meds, to not be in the cycling tank.