Water changes with simple dechlorinator or prime?

Currently cycling a 170l tank and planning water changes. Have rigged up something to the sink to empty the water straight into the pipe and then need to disconnect and connect to tap to fill tank back up again. Don’t have a python due to a)price b) issues getting faucet attachments here in Australia and c) you need pretty good pressure for it to work (not sure I have) and the water wastage which we are pretty precious over down under.

Anyway:
1. I’ve been using a cheap dechlorinator in my smaller tank with no issues, why do I hear so much about prime, what’s so good about it? It’s a lot more expensive

2. When doing a water change straight from the tap (I’ve read a lot of people either dose before or after with no issues to fish) why do I need to dose the whole tank volume and not the % of water I’m replacing?

3. How much water do people routinely change weekly?

Thanks

 

Hi Wonderingaloud .
If you don’t have fish in the tank you don’t need to change any water.
If you have fish in an uncycled tank you will need to change some water every few days.

As you have another tank add ornaments and hard surfaces like rocks and gravel. Even if you only a couple of months it will help transfer some good bacteria.

To answer your questions.

#1
All de chlorinator does the same job.
In Australia Prime can be expensive or you might find it a bit cheaper at times from independent stores. $60 per litre is a good price in my town.
It will likely be a lot cheaper because you need such a small amount. 0.5 ml ( plus a drop for luck) per 20 litre bucket. 5.0 per 200 litres.
Prime claims things that are not proven. Don’t worry about the claims today, they may be hot air?

#2
When doing a water change and adding water with a hose into the tank yes you must add enough conditioner for the whole volume of water in the tank. When adding water from a bucket you only add conditioner for the volume of the bucket.
In a single word answer the reason why we add for all the volume when using a hose its “ dilution “.
Just do it or use a bucket and save money on conditioner.

#3
When a tank has a full working nitrogen cycle ( is cycled) I change 45% every week in all tanks regardless. Some fry grow out tanks get 2 or 3 45% water changes each week. If I feel like cleaning a filter or something I will do random water changes in any tank day or night. Because of my unreliable water source coming from ether a lake , river or recycled sewage I never change more than 50% at one time. I am happy to change another 45% on the same day after the fish have had 4 hours to get used to slightly different water.

You are right in thinking python is wasting water.

You could consider a 100 litre rubbish bin on wheels from Bunnings or a cheap pair of 60 litre rubbish bins .

Feel free to ask questions. Someone is always around to answer and we all try to help.

Perhaps a fish net in the sink to stop fry or smaller fish going down the sink?

 

1. I’ve been using a cheap dechlorinator in my smaller tank with no issues, why do I hear so much about prime, what’s so good about it? It’s a lot more expensive

Prime is just one dechlorinator among others. It's all the same chemical: Sodium-Thiosulfate. It's completely irrelevant which one you use. Prime just comes in a fancy bottle and has taken over the US/Canada-Market, outside of North America nobody really cares.

 

Many of the cheapest conditioners ( K mart ) are a weak concentration of liquid meaning you have to use a lot more each time . They are more expensive per water change.
Prime is sold in many shops in Australia but the price varies a lot .

 

I don't use Prime because it does anything special. I've used it for years because it works out cheaper than most other brands that are not as concentrated.

However I've just noticed that my LFS sells Continuum Aquatics Fraction cheaper than Prime and it appears to be the same dose rate. Might get some next time.

 

Should be obvious that the cheapest budget options are just as unnecessary as the premium level name brands. A generic middle price section product does the job.

I'm really glad I don't need any of that stuff where I live.

 

Can you acquire Nutrafin products?

I never liked Prime, does nothing for slime coat and has little but the bare ingredients.

 

I never liked Prime, does nothing for slime coat and has little but the bare ingredients.

De-chlorinators are not designed for that. A "good" de-chlorinator should be just Sodium-Thiosulfate suspended in water. One can only argue about the concentrations, but that's it.

Use humic substances if you have softwater fish and salt for hardwater fish instead. Natural, no side-effects, and if you do it right: Dirt cheap or even for free. Otherwise additives are not necessary.

 

De-chlorinators are not designed for that. A "good" de-chlorinator should be just Sodium-Thiosulfate suspended in water. One can only argue about the concentrations, but that's it.

Use humic substances if you have softwater fish and salt for hardwater fish instead. Natural, no side-effects, and if you do it right: Dirt cheap or even for free. Otherwise additives are not necessary.

Oh right, right. My bad.
What I meant to say is Nutrafin AquaPlus acts as a great dechlorinator, and has some additives that I have found beneficial to overall fish health and water stability.


*Edit I will try these methods on a new tank soon. Saving money is as valuable as ....well I can't think of anything! It's utmost right now.

 

Let's not lose sight of the original questions

Currently cycling a 170l tank and planning water changes. Have rigged up something to the sink to empty the water straight into the pipe and then need to disconnect and connect to tap to fill tank back up again. Don’t have a python due to a)price b) issues getting faucet attachments here in Australia and c) you need pretty good pressure for it to work (not sure I have) and the water wastage which we are pretty precious over down under.

Anyway:
1. I’ve been using a cheap dechlorinator in my smaller tank with no issues, why do I hear so much about prime, what’s so good about it? It’s a lot more expensive

2. When doing a water change straight from the tap (I’ve read a lot of people either dose before or after with no issues to fish) why do I need to dose the whole tank volume and not the % of water I’m replacing?

3. How much water do people routinely change weekly?

Thanks

 

Don’t have a python due to a)price b) issues getting faucet attachments here in Australia and c) you need pretty good pressure for it to work (not sure I have) and the water wastage which we are pretty precious over down under.

My husband made a very simple adaptor to fit a normal hosepipe onto the kitchen tap. It is just a slightly bigger diameter piece of tubing (rubber I think) attached with jubilee clips. Works fine. I don't have to dechlorinate the water so even easier.

 

When doing a water change straight from the tap (I’ve read a lot of people either dose before or after with no issues to fish) why do I need to dose the whole tank volume and not the % of water I’m replacing?

I believe you treat only the water your are putting in. So dose by the volume of fresh water your adding on wc or maintenance days. We always pretreat the water, and also we have to let the water sit for maybe 2-3 days depending on how high the pH is coming from the tap.

How much water do people routinely change weekly?

General rule of thumb, unless there's other things that limit the need for water changes, is 25% of what the water level is currently, in whatever tank your changing water in.

 

What I meant to say is Nutrafin AquaPlus acts as a great dechlorinator, and has some additives that I have found beneficial to overall fish health and water stability.

http://www.regulatory-info-hsx.com/pdf/english/MSDS-A7925-A7927-A7928-A7929-A7930.pdf
Google the ingredients named in the safety sheet. I would not chugg this in a fish tank. All the talk of herbal stuff seems to be just a sham.

There is a reason I avoid naming brands if absolutely necessary and instead name product properties.

 

1. Other dechlorinators use 10x more product per water change than prime. Prime is more expensive but it will last 10x longer before needing to be bought again.

2. Everyone has a method that works for them, and a method that they didn't like. Do whatever works for you, just don't wait an hour to dechlorinate. Before or after doesn't matter much as long as you do it right away with the water change.

3. Everyone is different and depends on their set up and stocking levels.and how much nitrate you are putting on over time. I like to keep nitrates below 20ppm. I do water changes to make that happen. On one tank that might be 20% once a week, on another it might be 50% once a week and on my big tank which is massively overstocked I'm doing 30% every 2 days and I'm not able to keep that below 20ppm nitrates. But it does keep it from hitting 100ppm after 7 days.
Nitrate accumulation is a good gauge for how much water change you need to do, you'd want to keep it below 20ppm but most folks will bounce it between 40 and 20 ppm nitrates with a once a week or once every 2 weeks water changes. Plants use nitrates also, so some people can do less water changes.

Ideally to keep it "fresh" aiming to change out 100% ove the volume of the tank per month seems to work, not all at once really but could be 2x50%, 4x25%, 5x20%, even 10x10% like ever 3 days and a touch up and quick vac. Kind of all depends on your schedule and time available.
On my large tank I might opt to do a quick vac and 10% roughly 2x a week and change 10 or 15 gallons in a half hour after dinner rather than do two 50%s a month and take a couple hours each time to do it that way.

 

Here in the US I pay $12 for 1/2 liter of Prime. If I had to pay $60 a liter like Flyfisha, I would use one of the cheaper brands.

 

Looking online in Australia, I find prime from various sites for 100ml bottle between $9.99 and $19.99.
I'm not paid to endorse and product, use what you like, but I've done the math and you can too.

A cheap dechlorinator here in u.s. would be like tetra aquasafe, and like $2.50 for 50ml. the 50 ml treats 50 gallons of water.

For Prime 50ml here in the u.s, is like $3-$5. Like $6-9 for the 100ml. it takes 5ml to treat 50 gallons, so, a 50ml bottle treats 500 gallons of water for $5.
for the same volume of water treated, you'd need $25 worth of tetra aquasafe.

.and yeah with Prime there's people that overprice it also here, but everything in Australia is imported mostly, so there should be some sort of "scaling" between these products regardless, prime cost more there, so does aquasafe or any of the others compared to the u.s.....
unless there is a domestic manufactured brand available that doesn't need to be shipped across an ocean. Savings should still be there.

In general the prime definitely has the scary price compare to the cheaper options but cost isn't everything, You won't see it in the cost per ml either if you calculate it that way, Prime will still be more expensive, but, apples to apples, when you get to the dosing instructions, it takes 10x more product of the other brands than it does of the prime, because prime is concentrated, and why it cost more and it only costs like 2x more but treats 10x more water, even high priced in Australia and costing 4x more, it's still going 10x further by volume than the rest of the products out there.

Also I'm sure it's cheaper per ml, if you buy larger volume packaging also, like everything is. apples to apples the prime is more cost effective, but one is as good as another, and if I only had a couple bucks I'd probably buy the aquasafe for $2.50 and not factor long term savings, just wanting to get by for better days.

 

I don't want to stray the thread but big box stores here in Australia can make you pay $69 AUD for 500mL of Seachem Prime, but if you look online you can find the same 500mL bottle for $20AUD so I just go in and price match and get for 20$ its extreme value, cheaper products can be $5 AUD for 125mL with a strength of 5mL to 20litres... so it just makes sense for me too go with prime at $20 so much value and can do hundreds of water changes.

 

Thanks for everyone’s replies.
I’ve looked into it and ordered a 500ml bottle of prime for $27.


I’m still confused as to why I would dose the whole tank when doing a partial water change filling up directly from the tap? If the existing water is dechlorinated then the prime wouldn’t ‘act’ on that?

 

I’m still confused as to why I would dose the whole tank when doing a partial water change filling up directly from the tap? If the existing water is dechlorinated then the prime wouldn’t ‘act’ on that?

I assume it's because Prime needs to be at a minimum concentration to be effective and if you don't dose for the whole tank the required concentration won't be achieved when the tank is filled.

 

Seachem does not explain why, but they do say to dose for the tank volume if adding directly to tank.

I like GlennO's explaination.

 

Higher concentration means it takes effect faster. Up until a point when the concentration is too high and the molecules are blocking each other from reaction.
Lower concentrations will still work, though much slower. That's all.