Important Water Changes With Seachem Stability

Jeezusjuiicee

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Hey guys so I'm on day 15 of cycling my tank with fish! But I only started using prime and stability about 8 days ago. Anyway my last water change was 7 days ago. Tested waters today I got ammonia- .25 nitrite- .25-.5 and nitrate is at 0.

So I talked to a seachem support guy on the seachem forum and he told me when using stability to cycle you should try not to do water changes because I'll just be pulling the stability out of the water before it has a chance to work.

But I'm thinking he just meant don't do them every day or 2nd day like some people have to do during the cycle sometimes. Anyway what do you guys think of that?

Should I do a water change today? My numbers a looking really good but it has been 7 days
 
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nikm128

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Oh ok, I still feel a water changes isn't needed. While using prime I say you can wait until it hits 1ppm unless you aren't adding prime daily for the whole tank
 
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Jeezusjuiicee

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Oh ok, I still feel a water changes isn't needed. While using prime I say you can wait until it hits 1ppm unless you aren't adding prime daily for the whole tank
Yea that's what I'm feeling! Ill definitely add some water it's lost probably a gallon or 2 through evaporation. But thanks brah! Appreciate it
 

GuppyDazzle

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So I talked to a seachem support guy on the seachem forum and he told me when using stability to cycle you should try not to do water changes because I'll just be pulling the stability out of the water before it has a chance to work.
This is why I don't use bottled bacteria. "Don't do water changes."

Using the natural method you can completely monitor and control the cycling process. Take ammonia and nitrites, add the levels together, and do water changes to keep the total ppm to 1. or below. That will leave enough to feed the cycle, but will not hurt your fish.

If you use bottled bacteria, you're not supposed to do water changes, and you might as well not test the water because your readings won't make sense. I very much prefer the natural method, which takes about a month, because it's logical, easy to follow, easy to control, and works ever time.
 
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Jeezusjuiicee

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This is why I don't use bottled bacteria. "Don't do water changes."

Using the natural method you can completely monitor and control the cycling process. Take ammonia and nitrites, add the levels together, and do water changes to keep the total ppm to 1. or below. That will leave enough to feed the cycle, but will not hurt your fish.

If you use bottled bacteria, you're not supposed to do water changes, and you might as well not test the water because your readings won't make sense. I very much prefer the natural method, which takes about a month, because it's logical, easy to follow, easy to control, and works ever time.
When you say the test readings won't make sense is that because the bacteria interferes? I asked that question a while back aswell and they told me it does not change the test results. Man it's tough in this hobby everyone has something different to say!
 

nikm128

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When you say the test readings won't make sense is that because the bacteria interferes? I asked that question a while back aswell and they told me it does not change the test results. Man it's tough in this hobby everyone has something different to say!
Usually prime messes with the readings, not the bacteria
 
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Jeezusjuiicee

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Usually prime messes with the readings, not the bacteria
Yea I read that somewhere online and then I keep hearing yes and no! So do we have evidence that prime messes with the readings? I didn't want to use prime for that reason **** but when I found out it wasnt true I started using it.

The guy said it's still in the tank it's just in a non toxic form. So the test will still show it the same. And this is from a tech support from seachem! So I don't know what to believe anymore. All I know is my ammonia is turning into nitrite based on my last 2 tests. They seem to be working but I've never done tests without using these products
 
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Jeezusjuiicee

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Sorry, I misspoke. It is the bottled bacteria that can mess with them
Haha no problem! But dang that sucks. The bottle says to use it for the 1st 7 days in a row and then just with water changes. But the seachem guy said I can use it everyday until the cycle is over. But I bet that was a money grab lol!

Anyways I'm done the 7 days now anyway so I'll just stop using the bottled bacteria now! But prime is ok with the testing?

And thanks so much man I appreciate all your help
 

GuppyDazzle

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The bottle says to use it for the 1st 7 days in a row and then just with water changes. But the seachem guy said I can use it everyday until the cycle is over.
If it rains, add more expensive bottled bacteria. If the dog barks...

For the sake of argument, let's say the bottled bacteria works as advertised, and works great. It instantly cycles your tank. No waiting, no muss, no fuss. Fantastic!

If that's true, why do you need to use it with every water change?

As far as evidence it messes with the test results, just read all the many questions on this forum from people who are using bottled bacteria. The most common statement is, "Where are the nitrites?" Nitrites often never show up with bottled bacteria, and nitrites are part of the process. What good is a test kit if you can't see what's going on with toxin levels?

That's one theory about why you have to use the stuff with water changes even though your tank is "cycled." It's not really cycled, and it needs more of the magic potion every water change to avoid toxicity.
 

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I honestly don’t have anything for or against the bottle bacteria but if you do want to cut your chances I would stop using the bacteria (as long as the parameters don’t drastically jump) as the prime will continue to do its job. As mentioned above, as long as the total nitrite/ammonia ppm is less than 1ppm the prime will still work, so if it’s above that you should do a small water change to protect your fish
 
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Jeezusjuiicee

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If it rains, add more expensive bottled bacteria. If the dog barks...

For the sake of argument, let's say the bottled bacteria works as advertised, and works great. It instantly cycles your tank. No waiting, no muss, no fuss. Fantastic!

If that's true, why do you need to use it with every water change?

As far as evidence it messes with the test results, just read all the many questions on this forum from people who are using bottled bacteria. The most common statement is, "Where are the nitrites?" Nitrites often never show up with bottled bacteria, and nitrites are part of the process. What good is a test kit if you can't see what's going on with toxin levels?

That's one theory about why you have to use the stuff with water changes even though your tank is "cycled." It's not really cycled, and it needs more of the magic potion every water change to avoid toxicity.
What are you saying about the dog barking? Lol. I've been seeing nitrite on my tests and also the ammonia is going down while the nitrite goes up. So I have my own evidence that nitrite does show up on the tests. it was .25 and the next 2 days it went to .5 nitrite. Can someone explain to me why adding a little aerobic/anaerobic, and facultative bacteria to your new water isn't a good idea? I'll stop adding it to the tank everyday now. And the bottle says to add it once a month OR with water changes. And the reason for that is to just help out your biofiltration. I just tried googling the bacteria so I can learn but I'm just lost lol!

I'd like to add I started without stability. And after 4 days of using it I saw nitrites. So a total of 14 days and the nitrites are present. But since this is the 1st time I'm doing it right and testing my water. I really don't know how fast it takes on avg for the nitrite to show up! But if I start seeing nitrate this week that would be a 20-25 day cycle 100% competed. Is that not fast for a cycle? Again I don't have experience with the time frames!
 
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mattgirl

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What are you saying about the dog barking? Lol. I've been seeing nitrite on my tests and also the ammonia is going down while the nitrite goes up. So I have my own evidence that nitrite does show up on the tests. it was .25 and the next 2 days it went to .5 nitrite. Can someone explain to me why adding a little aerobic/anaerobic, and facultative bacteria to your new water isn't a good idea? I'll stop adding it to the tank everyday now. And the bottle says to add it once a month OR with water changes. And the reason for that is to just help out your biofiltration. I just tried googling the bacteria so I can learn but I'm just lost lol!
The only bottled bacteria I have seen that seems to cause the cycle to skip the nitrite phase is Tetra Safe Start + Once the cycle is complete I can see no reason to keep buying and adding Stability other than putting more money in the pocket of those that sell it.
 

nikm128

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You also don't actually need to add more every month or with water changes. Unless you're taking out your filter media and boiling it in bleach the amount of bacteria you could lose in a water change is nowhere near enough to hurt the cycle
 

GuppyDazzle

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What are you saying about the dog barking?

Can someone explain to me why adding a little aerobic/anaerobic, and facultative bacteria to your new water isn't a good idea?

I'll stop adding it to the tank everyday now. And the bottle says to add it once a month OR with water changes. And the reason for that is to just help out your biofiltration. I just tried googling the bacteria so I can learn but I'm just lost lol!
The dog barking comment was a sarcastic way to point out that the theme of most of the bottle bacteria instructions is to just buy more and dump more in, don't try to think about it or reason why, just buy more and dump more in. Don't ask us how it works, just buy more and dump more in. It's also related to my question, if this stuff really does help cycle your tank, why do you need to buy more and dump it in every water change, or even every month?

You completely lost me when you used the word "facultative." I'm too stupid to understand what that means, so I must be too stupid to understand what's going on with the cycle too. If I knew I'd have to wrestle with words like that, I never would have questioned the claims about bottled bacteria that make absolutely no sense. I'm sure I just don't understand. LOL!
 
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Jeezusjuiicee

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The dog barking comment was a sarcastic way to point out that the theme of most of the bottle bacteria instructions is to just buy more and dump more in, don't try to think about it or reason why, just buy more and dump more in. Don't ask us how it works, just buy more and dump more in. It's also related to my question, if this stuff really does help cycle your tank, why do you need to buy more and dump it in every water change, or even every month?

You completely lost me when you used the word "facultative." I'm too stupid to understand what that means, so I must be too stupid to understand what's going on with the cycle too. If I knew I'd have to wrestle with words like that, I never would have questioned the claims about bottled bacteria that make absolutely no sense. I'm sure I just don't understand. LOL!

Lol bro I actually got up and read the back of the bottle for that one (facultative). It says it helps in the break down of all that bacteria. And to be honest I don't know a whole lot about bacteria at all! So we are on the same level here hahaha. If anyone else chimes in with some actual scientific knowledge I'll listen to that. But for now I'll just stop using it

I threw some emojis in there but they never show up!
 

GuppyDazzle

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Seems a little heavy-handed to filter out the abbreviation Bee Ess. So I'll use horsehockey instead.

I sense a lot of horsehockey from manufacturers when they talk about bottled bacteria. It's horsehockey when they say "instant cycle," or "add fish right away!" I believe it's horsehockey when they say to add it every water change, unless it really doesn't cycle the tank like they say it does.

And if the manufacturer uses a word like "facultative" in their instructions, they're just baffling their customers with horsehockey. They know there's probably not one person in 100 who knows that word or the definition. More and more things pile up that increase my skepticism. They won't say how it works, or how the ammonia/nitrite/nitrate cycle is affected. Dump and pray.
 
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