Water changes check this out!!!

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Fish Monster

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I figured while we were on the subject and know one seems to know what to do for my sick fish which is ashame hopefully if I stop the water changes he will get better, I see no point in qt him now as the other ones would have surely been infected with this by now so hopefuly with decreased water changes he will get better.

OK NOW CHECK THIS OUT,

I just got a book thru Barnes and Nobels I have ordered about a week ago it is called Discus Fish Book byGiovanetti & Lucanus, maybe some of you have heard or read this book your selves??

Well listen to what they say about water changes and I am parahrasing here, basically 30 - 40% every two weeks is all that is needed, they even state that most would disagree with this from the hobby of years ago it is because of the filtration systems are so much better than they use to be it no longer needed to be done as often. The authors do go on to say that more frquent water changes are needed if breeding.

Now this is more to the other end of what we were talking about and in my case. I think all in all a common middel ground would be good, I would say for me I feel comfortable with at least two 40% changes every week would be the least i am willing to do maybe once a week but no less.
So what do you all feel about whats being said here and remeber this is comming from a book where I imagine these guys no their stuff rite?????
 

Shawnie

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Fish Monster said:
I figured while we were on the subject and know one seems to know what to do for my sick fish which is ashame hopefully if I stop the water changes he will get better, I see no point in qt him now as the other ones would have surely been infected with this by now so hopefuly with decreased water changes he will get better.
id say you got quite a bit of advice/help in your other thread or am i missing something? but whether it be from books, or members here, the ultimate choice is yours....
 
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Fish Monster

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No No you are rite I did get a ton of advice but a lot of i was about what I should have done or should be doing in the future which now I know well I did know QT and I certainly will be from now on, but I never really got a clear cut advice on what to do now, that is unless I missed it?

I mean what to do with the one that is peeling leave him be treat him treat him in a hosp tank or treat the main tank, with what and for how long? these are the things I felt I was missing out on.

The book was something ordered over a week ago I just got it and decided to skim thru to see if it had anything to say about treatment well based off the book I needed to treat with something with green in the name its the same stuff used for treating ICH so I used it a half strength one dose like the bottle said for sensitive fish I treated the whole tank
I hope I did rite I guess we will see supose to leave it in for 24hr then do a 50% water change like I said I only did half strength and I figured at this point I would have to treat all the fish in the tank that taking out just the one was not an option

the water change thing I found interesting because it went from one extreme from doing daily water changes to once every couple of weeks I just thought that was interesting I never heard of letting a discus tank go that long without a water change but thats what this book said wante to hear thoughts on that that was the purpose of this thread
 

TedsTank

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Well from long ago I did have success with raising 3 discus. Actually got them to spawn. The problem was back then, I used Ph down and stuff like that. Eventually got the dreaded Ph bounce and lost them all (it happens very quickly). I never tried Discus again til recently...they were on sale (cheap) and they turned out to be ****!! If ever again I will buy from a respectable breeder, and pay the quality fish price...not all varieties are expensive....most the newer ones are high.

Anyway, I only changed my water 25 - 30 percent every 2 weeks!! They grew very fast. I think the secret is good food and a stable tank! Depending on your tap water it is possible that changing too much isn't a good idea...unless you are using RO water....or RO water buffered by some tap water...currently on my tanks I am using 6 gallons of RO with 8 cups of tap....just need to figure out the ratio for you water and what PH you need.

Also good established filters make good established water...makes for less water changes.
 
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Lucy

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I'm so sorry your fish are ill.
As Shawnie said, a lot of advice was given in your other thread from experienced discus keepers no matter what any book says. The advice given by the members seems to go along with the discus care sheet here on the forum.

After members give advice, it's always a good thing to do more research then decide what you think is best for your fish.

Good luck
 
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Fish Monster

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Oh ok this is really good to know yeah I have a 4 - 5 month old canister filter with tons of BIO material and filter floss in it thats all its rated for double what I have so I jnow its certainly a really good filter well established for sure. and I agree with you and the book on water changing the only reason why i was doing it so much is because I thought I was suppose to I know now what to do first of all I will QT for I guess two ro three weeks? and I will only do weekly 40% water changes like I do n my other regular community tank does that sound resonable??

Oh one more question should I take some bio material out of the canister filter put into my HOB filter I have on my QT tank? and then change the water like 30% of it once a week as well? They will be smaller than the ones in the main tank but I do not know how long to QT for nor how much or often to water change??

The last question I have is if I only do weekly 40% water changes say how do I clean up the left over blood worms n my tank if say my clean up crew does not eat them all? it will take probaly like 10% of the water to vacum that stuff up really quickly is this acceptable to do every day or every other day how did you or would you handle that end of it?? thanks again for all your help here I apreciate it all!!
 

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Let's leave the discussion of your fish in the other thread. The water change info you posted here is interesting, but it sits apart from that discussion. It is more of a broad topic, and deserves its own attention.

The water change thing is a very contested idea. I have heard from a professional breeder who doesn't do water changes until his nitrates are at "unacceptable levels" (he didn't quantify that), and then he does a 90% change all at once.
A lot of people do around 20% every week (which is roughly the equivalent of the 30-40% every other week, but causes less drastic changes in water chemistry during the water change).
I have heard from another professional breeder who says that, if you're trying to get your fish to breed, there's no point in doing anything less than 50% water changes every week.
Yet another professional breeder took things one step further and has a water change system that changes out something like 15% (I say "something like" because I don't remember the precise percentage... it may have been 15% twice daily) of the water every day; effectively changing out all of the water in a week.

My opinion is that more frequent water changes are always better, as they keep the water quality more stable in the long run.
 

Meenu

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Fish Monster said:
and remeber this is comming from a book where I imagine these guys no their stuff rite?????
Well, I think that just because it is in a book does not make it true. It's an opinion, just like what we give you here.
 

sirdarksol

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Meenu said:
Well, I think that just because it is in a book does not make it true. It's an opinion, just like what we give you here.
Precisely. You don't have to actually know anything to get a book published. There's a reason that the broad genre is called "nonfiction" rather than "fact." A lot of people get published, despite not knowing the slightest thing about what they're writing about. Then there are the ideas that come down to opinion.
In the nonfiction world, what you know makes up for about a third of your ability to get published. The other two thirds are finding an editor who thinks he/she can sell your work, and your ability to sound authoritative.
 
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Fish Monster

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Ok then what do you suppose is the happy medium
 

TedsTank

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People do what works for them...you will have to sort that all out. As you know everyone has different techniques and water parameters etc. So everyone does things a bit different. You are on the right track and all will workout...the panic/frustrating part is because of the price of the darned things...lol and anyone with discus has been there too.
 

Meenu

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Your threads should be merged. It's so much easier when all the advice is given in one thread.
 
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Lucy

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Meenu said:
Your threads should be merged. It's so much easier when all the advice is given in one thread.
That's why sirdarksol asked that this thread be kept on topic about water changes and not Fish Monster's particular fish.

I'll try and move/separate the last couple of posts.


To mkae things less confusing, posts about Fish Monster's particulat fish have been moved to this thread:
 

Meenu

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Lucy said:
That's why sirdarksol asked that this thread be kept on topic about water changes and not Fish Monster's particular fish.

I'll try and move/separate the last couple of posts.
As a generic topic of discussion, this thread is quite interesting.

General discus care, and the conflicting opinions on the subject, are interesting for me to read, but I have no personal experience with these fish. That there are differing opinions comes as no surprise - that's the case in this entire hobby.

I think the published book vs. advice on the internet part of this thread is thought-provoking. How many people will automatically assume that since it is in print, it has basis in fact?
 
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Lucy

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Meenu said:
That there are differing opinions comes as no surprise - that's the case in this entire hobby.
That's so true. I might do something one way, you might do the same thing totally different. Neither is right or wrong and because it works for one doesn't mean it will work for another. There are a lot of variables in the hobby.
 

Danionins.com

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Lucy said:
There are a lot of variables in the hobby.
Aquariology's first rule:

1. There are exceptions to every rule.

Dennis
 
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Fish Monster

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Meenu said:
As a generic topic of discussion, this thread is quite interesting.

General discus care, and the conflicting opinions on the subject, are interesting for me to read, but I have no personal experience with these fish. That there are differing opinions comes as no surprise - that's the case in this entire hobby.

I think the published book vs. advice on the internet part of this thread is thought-provoking. How many people will automatically assume that since it is in print, it has basis in fact?
Well I think you need to consider the source, read things like Bio's and determine for your self ased off of that if you feel the source is crediable. I have read both authors Bio's and plan to re-read them but it seems both of them have a termendious amount of experince in both keeping discus and breeding them as well we are talking years of exp. I am no sure but they still may be in the discus hobby to some degree I will have to read up on them again. For me personally even if they had just one year of exp thats more than what I hae so I would consider them to be at least some what crediable, the fact the have years exp on there own and years and years exp between the two of them I would certainly take them as crediable. I follow the advice of people on this forum who say they have X amount of years exp and have breed discus and so forth without publishing books why would I not take their advice at least in consideration would you not agree?
 

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Yet another professional breeder took things one step further and has a water change system that changes out something like 15% (I say "something like" because I don't remember the precise percentage... it may have been 15% twice daily) of the water every day; effectively changing out all of the water in a week.

My opinion is that more frequent water changes are always better, as they keep the water quality more stable in the long run.
And then there's these guys who have a setup that does the equivalent of 15 100% water changes a day.

https://www.livefishdirect.com/
 
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Fish Monster

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Oh and I m ot at all saying any one in here is lying about their ep and I do follow most of the advice I get here and on Simply that is un less it is contridictive with one another then I have to go with the majority rule. I have also come to trust a few members more over others but I am sure thats natural but at any rate I would not be here if I were not seeking help and advice if I did not trust the folks on here but some advice I hear I have to double checkaginst another source but for the most part the advice I have been getting seems to be in line with others except on some issue slike water changes and wether or not to use carbon ha ha I am not trying to bring that up again we already went over that and because of what I have read on here Ido not use it any more on my discus tank by the way they only advice I did not follow and should have and I known about it long long before I joined the forums was to QT new fish I was to excited to get them altogether I will not be making that mistake again i already have a qt tank set up I need another for a hosp tank and hopefully I will never have to use it again but lets be reall I am sure tha i will.

I would like to take this time to personally thank everyone who has taken their time out o help me with these problems I have had from the momment I joined most were more than welcomed to help me and I thank you all thats why I keep comming back I know I can be a pain in the but and I am sorry thats just Nate for you I am sure you all know by now thanks for putting up with me and thanks for all the help I am a 33 yr old father of 3 and married and my wife of 12 years knows how I am and I doubt I am going to change anytime soon I am getting to be an old man set in his ways lol lol thanks again all!!!

SFwriter said:
And then there's these guys who have a setup that does the equivalent of 15 100% water changes a day.

https://www.livefishdirect.com/
but was this to grow them out I wonder or was this also for his adults and see what I mean eveyone does it different and all methods for some people seem to be effective at least for them. But the question remains I wonder what kind of water they use straight from the amazon I bet lol

Merged back to back posts.
Thanks!
Ken
 

SFwriter

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Yeah, don't know but they have a huge variety for sure. Has anybody here ever bought from them?
 
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