Very High pH in tank but not from Tap Water

I'm at a loss! We started our tank on Christmas Day. Everything was thoroughly washed (substrate - very small gravel - almost thick sand like), decorations, tank with hot water only. the substrate I bought said it could initially raise the pH. Decorations are high quality.

I tested the pH and it is extremely high - 8.2. I tested the water straight out of our tap and it is 7.2. Could the substrate be causing such a big spike in pH in the tank? If so, will it go down on its own or do I need to intervene? Two of my planned fish can handle a high pH but one can only handle up to 7.

I've read about natural remedies to bring it down - leaves, peat moss, driftwood, RO (which is not an option for me).

From everything I've read the chemical lowering agents don't work and I don't want to hurt my fish once the tank cycles and my fish are in it.

Any suggestions?

 

It's probably the substrate. It won't go down. What type exactly is this?
Peat and driftwood would lower the pH.

 

I'm at a loss! We started our tank on Christmas Day. Everything was thoroughly washed (substrate - very small gravel - almost thick sand like), decorations, tank with hot water only. the substrate I bought said it could initially raise the pH. Decorations are high quality.

I tested the pH and it is extremely high - 8.2. I tested the water straight out of our tap and it is 7.2. Could the substrate be causing such a big spike in pH in the tank? If so, will it go down on its own or do I need to intervene? Two of my planned fish can handle a high pH but one can only handle up to 7.

I've read about natural remedies to bring it down - leaves, peat moss, driftwood, RO (which is not an option for me).

From everything I've read the chemical lowering agents don't work and I don't want to hurt my fish once the tank cycles and my fish are in it.

Any suggestions?

What substrate are you using, and why not use something that is pH neutral?

I'm experimenting with lowering my pH with Peat Moss right now, it has been slow to work so far, but it is working. My tap is 8.2 and one of my tanks is now down to 7.6/7.8 after adding drift wood and some Peat Moss.

Every tank is different though, and while that tank is responding well, it also has lots of plants, and the driftwood has been in it for a while.

My other tank has no plants, has driftwood, and is barely responding to the Peat Moss. But at least it is responding.

RO is a pain for me, too, but there are some local water shops that sell RO for something like $.25/Gallon, so I might just start doing my water changes with some RO mixed with tap.

 

I'm at a loss! We started our tank on Christmas Day. Everything was thoroughly washed (substrate - very small gravel - almost thick sand like), decorations, tank with hot water only. the substrate I bought said it could initially raise the pH. Decorations are high quality.

I tested the pH and it is extremely high - 8.2. I tested the water straight out of our tap and it is 7.2. Could the substrate be causing such a big spike in pH in the tank? If so, will it go down on its own or do I need to intervene? Two of my planned fish can handle a high pH but one can only handle up to 7.

I've read about natural remedies to bring it down - leaves, peat moss, driftwood, RO (which is not an option for me).

From everything I've read the chemical lowering agents don't work and I don't want to hurt my fish once the tank cycles and my fish are in it.

Any suggestions?

Hello Racking7, Welcome to FIshlore!

Can you please post a photo or exact name and brand of the substrate you are using ? Also, what fish are you planning on stocking that can only handle a PH of 7.0 ? If you are buying these fish from your local pet store who has the same water source as you do, more than likely, all the fish at the store are acclimated to your waters PH.

With regard to the difference in your water sources PH and your tanks PH, you can try filling a bucket with tap water and letting it sit with an airstone for 24 hours and testing after that period. This would allow for your water to degass should it contain a high level of dissolved CO2. Best of luck.

 

I tested the pH and it is extremely high - 8.2. I tested the water straight out of our tap and it is 7.2.

I have always been told on FL to never check pH of my tap water as soon as it came out of the spigot, but to pour it into a glass and check in 24 hours.

Right now I have an opposite problem, my pH is almost nonexistent, I am trying to raise it with Aragonite Sand.

 

Ok I'll try to answer everyone:

Anders247 - National Geographic Aquarium Sand and says Aquarium Substrate on the front of the bag. I got it from Petco and picked it because it wasn't quite sand but more like very, very small, rounded gravel. I wanted something safe for the Cory's I planned to add.

Dirty Koala - I didn't know it wasn't pH neutral or I wouldn't have bought it. I didn't realize substrate could raise your pH until my husband mentioned reading it on the bag. I have another bag of a little bit bigger gravel that has no mention of pH on it that I could switch it to. I'd have to look into places that sell RO water. I've never seen anything like that around here.

Riviera so: The fish that can supposedly only handle up to a 7 are the Zebra Danios I intend to have. Their profile says 6.5 - 7 (Well several pages said 7 and several said 8 so I went with the lower number to be sure not to hurt them). Yes, the LFS is on the same water but the higher number is in my tank (8.2) not my tap - my tap after sitting 24 hours is between 7.6 and 7.8 depending which pH test you use (see below). Unfortunately I do not have an air stone.

Jomolager - thanks for bringing this up! I did have a 5 gallon bucket that's been distilling for 24 hours. I just tested it and got 7.6 using the regular pH test and 7.8 with the high pH test.

Thanks for all the responses! So - should I replace my substrate and start over, try to find somewhere to get RO water and do a 50 water change, add driftwood and peat moss - do all of the above?

 

I don't know about plants but most fish can handle any pH as long as it remains constant. If the pH keeps changing you could also be messing with the fish's osmotic regulation and they could die. Best advice is to leave it be and let the pH settle. You could insist on a regimen of your own but try to stick with it to keep the water properties constant. Always perform proper acclimation techniques when introducing new fish. I can't remember when I last checked pH. What I do check is GH and KH and I try keep those somewhat constant. Little changes are okay so long as KH remains in my desired range.

 

Thanks matsungit. I was just reading the articles related to pH, KH and GH. I was never good at chemistry! I ordered a KH/GH test kit which should be here tomorrow. Hopefully once I have those variables someone can tell me if my water will be safe for my intended fish. It sounds like it's much easier to balance KH/GH than pH. My tank is unplanted and I don't plan on adding live plants. I'm having a hard enough time keeping up with doing things correctly with an unplanted tank I will practice proper acclimation techniques. Thanks again.

Oh and I researched any RO stations and there are none in my area so that's not an option.

 

Greetings, and welcome

Do you rent or own your own home? There is a soulotion that many of us are turning to. That is setting up water treatment in house. The initial cost can be high (depending on your household income) but is well worth considering. The cost of buying RODI water from a store will soon out stripe an in house system. Especially with the very high odds of the two of you being infected with M.T.S (multiple tank syndrome) a whole house filter to a next gen water softener with iron out salt set to 3 PPM TDS (I will deal with the problem with the iron out additive next) with a split to another filter to a 5 stage RODI unit to the storage tanks (we use 3 Brut 30 gallon trash cans ganged together with a auto shutoff (toilet shut off valve) and a pump to get the water from the basement to the first floor. We now have water that started out from the well at almost a PH of 9 and hardness that was off the chart. The water is 3PPM TDS with a PH of 7-7.2
We then ad SeaChem Equilibrium to stabilize the PH and add minerals that the fish and plants need. Total cost was around $800.00 US with me doing all the plumbing.

 

HI Thunder: unfortunately we rent Your system sounds awesome!

I still don't understand why our pH is so different out of the tap even sitting for 24-48 hours versus the tank. I need a pulling your hair out icon

I'll get my KH/GH tests tomorrow if I can wait - I'm anxious to hear all your thoughts and what I can do!!!! I might just take 2 vials of tank water to the store and test them in the car so I can go back and get anything I need to try and fix it Can you tell I'm an impatient person?

 

Not impatient, passionate!

 

I love that Jomolager!!!! I'm using it from now on It sounds so much better

 

I rent an apartment and am lucky enough to have high water pressure (90psi). I bought a BRS 5 stage 75gpd RO-DI unit to replace my previous Whirlpool WHER25. I then used the drinking water faucet and tank to the new system. Recently I bought a BRS 150gpd upgrade kit which doubled the product water and cut the waste water to half. I now fill my 5 gallon water jug in just 43 minutes during winter, and 38 minutes in the summer. My RO water comes out at 4 TDS (goes to RO faucet and fridge) and DI stage comes out at 0 TDS. I have never tested TDS from tap but according to the city report it has about 268-422 TDS from natural runoffs. I do notice hard lime deposits in the shower and kitchen sink though.

Here's a picture before the 150gpd dual membrane upgrade. This system fills 5 gallons at 76 minutes with 5 TDS at RO stage. The upgrade was supposed to increase TDS slightly but strangely it went down instead. It does have a flush kit which I use periodically.

 

S

I rent an apartment and am lucky enough to have high water pressure (90psi). I bought a BRS 5 stage 75gpd RO-DI unit to replace my previous Whirlpool WHER25. I then used the drinking water faucet and tank to the new system. Recently I bought a BRS 150gpd upgrade kit which doubled the product water and cut the waste water to half. I now fill my 5 gallon water jug in just 43 minutes during winter, and 38 minutes in the summer. My RO water comes out at 4 TDS (goes to RO faucet and fridge) and DI stage comes out at 0 TDS. I have never tested TDS from tap but according to the city report it has about 268-422 TDS from natural runoffs. I do notice hard lime deposits in the shower and kitchen sink though.

Here's a picture before the 150gpd dual membrane upgrade. This system fills 5 gallons at 76 minutes with 5 TDS at RO stage. The upgrade was supposed to increase TDS slightly but strangely it went down instead. It does have a flush kit which I use periodically.

And that is the unit we use

I need a pulling your hair out icon

here you go.

 

Here was my formula for the perfect freshwater:

20 gallons 0 TDS RO-DI water
2 tsp baking soda (this gives me about 5 dKH)
2 tbsp Epsom salt (I can't remember the GH since my tank is now brackish)
Kent Freshwater Essential (for essential micro nutrients)

**Adjust accordingly for desired GH/KH.

 

Here was my formula for the perfect freshwater:

20 gallons 0 TDS RO-DI water
2 tsp baking soda (this gives me about 5 dKH)
2 tbsp Epsom salt (I can't remember the GH since my tank is now brackish)
Kent Freshwater Essential (for essential micro nutrients)

**Adjust accordingly for desired GH/KH.

I have been wondering about the Kent products. Since you use them I think I will give them a try.

 

Thanks Thunder for the info on your system. We're only going to be in this house until November so I'm not investing in any type of RO water system. It doesn't make sense for us financially. I'll just have to find other ways to bring down my pH and potentially KH/GH once I get those tests tomorrow.

I love the hair pulling icon! I'll be bald before I get this tank stabilized!

Thanks though!!!

Well, since the gravel says minerals can raise pH and it wasn't going down and our tap water pH is fine - we did a 90 percent water change to see if the pH returns to normal range. If it doesn't we're going to change out the gravel. I read the bag we originally bought (too sharp for my intended Cory cats) and that says won't change water chemistry. I'm so mad at myself for not reading the bag we used and letting my husband read it and not asking him. Lesson learned!!!!!! Fingers and toes crossed that this solves the problem!

 

The PH increase is a result of the substrate increasing the KH, this is why it resists changing it back. The Danio can live in this PH as long as he is acclimated to it, but you will want to keep water changes small to prevent temporary swings in PH. As stated, most fish will live just fine outside of the ranges given for them, but will generally not breed outside the ranges. You can leave it or change the substrate, but the Danio will be fine whichever you choose.

 

Thanks once again Sarcasm! Actually I don't want any of my fish to breed

My husband doesn't mind changing the substrate - 8.2 just seems so high. He didn't want to use sand which I did for my Cory's.

Ugh! I just don't want to kill my fish.

 

Sarcasm Included makes a very important point: small water changes when dealing with pH. Good luck and keep us posted, I am particularly interested in this as out of the blue I am having pH issues in one of my tanks.

 

Thanks Jomalager. Small water changes are actually easier for me. I'll keep you guys posted. We're getting fish today.

I may switch to Engler's as they're much more suited to my tank parameters. Although I'd have to buy them online as my LFS hadn't even heard of them It's fine for my intended platies.

My KH is fine for my intended Cory's but my pH is higher than they like and they're not as hardy.

I just have fingers and toes crossed - I've accepted the fact that I will be a fish murderer at some point in this adventure

 

No, not "murdrerer," you will witness the death in your tank. All of us do, inadvertently.

 

I forgot to put the top back on my qt tank and my female spotted badis jumped out. That doesn't make me a murder just an old man with a bad memory. You are trying your best to understand and provide the best conditions for your new pets.

 

Murder implies intent. I know just from this short conversation that you only want the best for your finny friends.

I have lost an entire tank because I was sold RODI water instead of the spring mineral water I ordered. The only ones that survived were two little angels. Lost an 11 fish school of glass cats that I had for quite a while.

Bad things happen.This is a very complex endeavor. There are those that have almost never lost a plant or fish. Creator bless them. The rest of us can generally expect that from time to time there will be deaths in our tanks from other than old age. All that can be done is to make an honest effort to learn and not repeat mistakes.

Remember, we are here for you

 

Thanks all! You're all very sweet and helpful. The Danios are in and doing very well. They are very funny little guys. Someone said they're like fish with ADD and they are They also follow my finger across the tank hoping its food I'm sure! They're thoroughly enjoying exploring the whole tank. I put a large bottle of Safe Start in, will add some Prime each day and do small water changes. Hopefully that will keep my little guys safe. My LFS guy said he's had great success with this method and he's owned his store for 20 years.

Thanks again for for your help and support. You guys rock