Velvet Outbreak?

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CHAMELEON_BREEZE

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Ever since yesterday I found my Fourspot Butterflyfish swimming in my current. I remembered that this is the same thing my Lemon Butterfly was doing a few months ago, he died a few days later. After that, there was a velvet outbreak, confirming that his death was velvet. All of my cupramine that I dosed last time has disappeared, so I'm wondering if this is another velvet outbreak waiting to unfold. The sad thing is that I have a snowflake moray I bought two days ago, and I do not want to kill him with cupramine. I'm gonna return it, but that day is Saturday. It's currently Wednesday and I'm hoping that my Butter's days aren't numbered. I do not want this to play out like last time.

If it is velvet, how many days does my butterflyfish have to live?

By the way, my last Butterflyfish didn't show any signs of white spots. This butterfly isn't really either.

EDIT: My parameters are a tiny bit higher than usual. I'm planning on doing a water change soon but my R/O filter needs cartridge replacements, which are from Amazon.

Also, how am I going to treat this tank with an eel? Unless the eel is immune to copper, I don't know if my fish will make it before the outbreak arrives.
 
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CHAMELEON_BREEZE

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I did treat the tank in the past with cupramine, but it all disappeared. I'm wondering if the live rock absorbed it. Last time I tested the copper levels it was zero ppm. I heard the live rock can re-release it so I don't want to overdose. I don't even have a quarantine tank! I'm running out of options!

He could possibly die in a few days. I do not wan't to lose this fish!
 

david1978

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I'm not real familiar with the salty side but if I remember correctly your supposed to treat them in a different tank and let the velvet die off in your display tank. Beings you dont have that option I have no idea what to do.
 

saltwater60

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You say you doses cuppurmine a few months ago when your last butterfly died. Have you done water changes in between? If so that’s likely why your copper is non existent.

Your fish are swimming into the current gasping for oxygen. I’m guessing the parasite is in the gills and that’s why you didn’t notice it. It was probably never completely killed in the fist place. Your live rock could have absorbed the copper.
You’ll need to treat the eel differently since it’s scaleless and can get ick.

Here’s a good article. Also I wouldn’t return the eel since you’ll likely spread the parasite to the LFS and stress the eel out more.
Learn to Diagnose and Treat Oodinium (Velvet or Coral Fish Disease)

if your water parameters are out of wack your doing something wrong. You can’t wait until Saturday to do a treatment. Your butterfly will die between then and now. If your water parameters are out of whack why did you get a new fish? Sounds like lack of maitenance caused this outbreak to reoccur. Also could have been brought in on the eel.
Id immediately get going on some water changes and get your water parameters back on track, do the ick treatment and monitor the copper levels to see if it’s being absorbed by the rock. If it is the only option is a separate tank.
Not saying this to be mean but you need to manage your tank better, no good ro membrane for water changes, lack of water changes with high parameters, and you added a new fish? This is a disaster waiting to happen or is happening currently. Adding an eel is a lot of bioload and they are dirty eaters. Eels cause water quality issues.
 
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CHAMELEON_BREEZE

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I'll try dosing. No, I did not do any water changes ever since the last treatment. Maybe if I dose today the eel should be fine. Then I'll bring him to the LFS on Saturday.

I do know for a fact that the LFS I go to, Coral Fish Hawaii, does in fact treat their tanks with copper. They even keep their inverts in a separate tank.
 

A201

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The worst aquarium blunder I ever experienced was not immediately recognizing Oodinium / Velvet. I lost many prized fish but saved several with Coppersafe.
Symptoms: fish become lethargic, then begin the flash. They will continue to eat during the early stages. The most telling symtom is the dense gold or yellow parasite patches on the body & gill area.
The parasites are best seen under a lunar or night light. Oodinum is a quick killer, only takes about three or four days.
 

saltwater60

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CHAMELEON_BREEZE said:
I'll try dosing. No, I did not do any water changes ever since the last treatment. Maybe if I dose today the eel should be fine. Then I'll bring him to the LFS on Saturday.

I do know for a fact that the LFS I go to, Coral Fish Hawaii, does in fact treat their tanks with copper. They even keep their inverts in a separate tank.
Just watch the eel. I initially forgot its scale less and they are more susceptible to copper treatments.
again not to be a jerk but you haven’t done a water change in a few months? Stress make fish immune systems drop and stress is from bad water parameters. Your nitrates have to be fairly high. This is very likely the cause of the ick infestation sadly. Better get up on those water changes.
Make sure your testing the copper levels. I’d pull the eel if you can to not take the risk. You can’t wait until Saturday to treat for ick though. You’re in a tough spot.
 
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CHAMELEON_BREEZE

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saltwater60 said:
Just watch the eel. I initially forgot its scale less and they are more susceptible to copper treatments.
again not to be a jerk but you haven’t done a water change in a few months? Stress make fish immune systems drop and stress is from bad water parameters. Your nitrates have to be fairly high. This is very likely the cause of the ick infestation sadly. Better get up on those water changes.
Make sure your testing the copper levels. I’d pull the eel if you can to not take the risk. You can’t wait until Saturday to treat for ick though. You’re in a tough spot.
Yes, I haven't done a water change. The reason I'm waiting for Saturday is because I have to go to school and I got PLENTY of homework.

Also, I moved the direction of the flow. It was flowing on the front glass, where my butterfly mainly likes to go when I'm around. No other fish seem to show any symptoms. If the butterfly stops "surfing" then I think I'm safe.

If I lose him by Saturday I guess I'll need to buy a replacement and then treat the rest of the tank. Again, the store treats their fish.

When the parasite is fully killed in my tank, I'll remove all copper and place in a UV Sterilizer to make sure the parasite never dares to return.

EDIT: I'm also going to do the water change soon, too. First I need to get replacement cartridges for my RODI Machine.
 

saltwater60

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I’d get the water changes done and get a handle on the parasites for at least a month before adding anything else.
UV sterilizers work for some stuff but not for everything. Keep in mind ich will drop to the bottom of the tank in a cyst form then hatch. That cyst form is likely not killed by UV. Then the babies hatch and can infect a fish before the IV sterilizer can kill them all. It’s not a bad idea it’s just not fool proof.
Good luck. Treatment of the fish is the best course of action.
 
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CHAMELEON_BREEZE

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If the rocks probably absorbed the original copper, would adding 144 more drops of copper be an overdose?

My sump filter has no carbon in it. I do have carbon filter pads, but I haven't used any in the sump yet.

And my tank is a fowlr. I have a copper test kit. Last time I checked I had 0ppm.
 

saltwater60

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CHAMELEON_BREEZE said:
If the rocks probably absorbed the original copper, would adding 144 more drops of copper be an overdose?

My sump filter has no carbon in it. I do have carbon filter pads, but I haven't used any in the sump yet.

And my tank is a fowlr. I have a copper test kit. Last time I checked I had 0ppm.
You really need a test kit especially in this situation with treating in a tank with live rock and the eel.
You could try getting different medication like nox ich that is not copper based. It’s has malachite green and will stain your live rock though.

Also keep in mind the live rock is not tainted and can not be used for inverts since it can leach back out.
 
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CHAMELEON_BREEZE

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Ok. I could try some malachite green if they have at the LFS.

Do you need a test kit for that, though?

Also, when the parasite is fully eradicated, can I remove it with carbon?

And a reason why I can't get a quarantine is because I don't have enough space for one. I do have an empty 5 gallon, but that's about it.
 

saltwater60

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No test kit needed for malachite green.
Carbon will remove it. The color just disappears after a while.

what size tank is this and what fish are in it?
 
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CHAMELEON_BREEZE

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Sorry for the long delay. I've treated my tank with more Cupramine today (0.50 ppm). My tank is a 75 gallon FOWLR with a pink-streaked goby, large pajama cardinal, kole tang, four spot butterflyfish (infected), squirrelfish, and lemon peel angel. I returned the eel a few days ago.

The butterflyfish has been showing signs of recovery. He is still going after food, and some of his spots are (seemingly) disappearing. Still occasionally swims in the powerhead, but he's been doing it less. Hopefully he survives.
 

saltwater60

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Glad to hear he’s still hanging in there. Good luck.
 
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CHAMELEON_BREEZE

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Another update.

I did a 5 gallon water change recently and I'm planning on doing another one this weekend. I checked my parameters today and here's what I got:

pH: 7.4

Ammonia: 0 ppm

Nitrite: 0.25 ppm

Nitrate: 0 ppm

Is the pH and Nitrite fine? Will another water change help?

Also, here's some weird behaviors.

Just today, my kole tang has started acting strange. He will occasionally go on his side (at any location of the tank) and flip up the sand. I have not seen him going it on any of the rocks. There is no sign of parasites on him (yet).

Also, the butterflyfish has displayed this behavior ever since he first got velvet. He will go up to the entrance of my pink-streaked goby's cave and stay there, before swimming away. Sometimes he will even go inside of the goby's home. The goby doesn't seem to care sometimes. My (deceased) lemon butterflyfish actually did the same thing when he had velvet. No other fish seems to be doing this yet. Is this behavior exclusive to butterflies with velvet?

EDIT: there's also some small piles of poop in the sump. How do I stop this from happening? I got a skimmer and a filter floss, so why will there be poop? Should I clean my floss? BTW I have a Pro Clear Premier Wet Dry for 75 gallons.
 

saltwater60

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Ph is low. Should be around 8-8.3.
The rubbing is called flashing and is a sign of ich infestation.
nitrites should be 0. 0.25 isn’t the end of the world but yes I’d do more water changes and bring the ph up slowly.
 
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CHAMELEON_BREEZE

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Ok.

How do I raise the pH?

Also, will the recent copper dose stop the ich and velvet? My butterflyfish is still displaying weird behaviors. It says to leave the cupramine in the system till Wednesday the 12th (14 days). After I remove the copper, will a UV sterilizer keep fish safe from disease?

I'm planning on a quarantine tank. Would 20 gallons be able to support all of my fish (or at least most of them)? Also, would I need to cycle a quarantine tank?

EDIT: I meant 10, not 20 gallons for the quarantine.
 

saltwater60

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CHAMELEON_BREEZE said:
Ok.

How do I raise the pH?

Also, will the recent copper dose stop the ich and velvet? My butterflyfish is still displaying weird behaviors. It says to leave the cupramine in the system till Wednesday the 12th (14 days). After I remove the copper, will a UV sterilizer keep fish safe from disease?

I'm planning on a quarantine tank. Would 20 gallons be able to support all of my fish (or at least most of them)? Also, would I need to cycle a quarantine tank?

EDIT: I meant 10, not 20 gallons for the quarantine.
The copper level needs to be monitored and maintained at the dosing level. If that was done it’s likely the ich will be dead after the treatment period.
For easing the ph test your alkalinity. Of low that’s likely the cause. Do you have coral or shell based sand? That can help raise ph and alkalinity.
As for the 10 gallon tank being ok for a QT tank it’s way, way too small and yes it would need to be cycled. If you place those fish in a 10 gallon tank I think the oxygen level would be very low and the space would be way too small. That small of a tank would stress the heck out of the fish and lower their immunity. That would make them more susceptible to the parasites. I see no way that you could control the ammonia or nitrites in that tank.
 
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