Various questions on starting a tank

Hello all,

I wasn't really sure what forum my questions best fit in, so I apologize if I picked the wrong one (again).

I'll be putting together my 55-gallon fish tank this weekend, and last night I went out to peruse the aisles of the LFS. I had a few questions about things I saw there:

1. Before I needed to set the tank up as quickly as possible, but due to the untimely passing of my pretty female betta, I have a bit more time on my hands. People had suggested Tetra Safe Start, but as mentioned, it's a bit expensive ($20+ for the 75-gallon-and-up size). Would it be recommended to buy the 30-gallon-and-up size just to get things going (knowing it wouldn't be enough to fully stock the tank right away)? Or now that I can wait a few weeks to stock it, should I avoid the TSS route due to the cost?

2. I saw a bottle of some stuff called API Quick Start. Is this the same as TSS? (I believe it was cheaper, though I don't remember exactly.) It does say "Allows instant addition of fish" and "Immediately starts aquarium cycle" on the bottle. Does anyone have any experience with it, or how it compares to TSS?

3. Rather than test kits, I saw a few thingies you hang in the tank that monitor ammonia/pH/whatever. Are these reliable at all?

4. Someone mentioned that they don't use carbon filters. So does that mean I just use the sponge media? The filter I have has a large sponge media with four slots for carbon packet-things. I also saw some "carbon-ammonia neutralizing blend." What is this, and should I put some in those packet-things?

5. I also saw a bottle of "Bacteria Supplement." Is this the same as TSS (or the API stuff)? It's a smaller bottle that says it treats 240 gallons, so I imagine it must be something different.

6. I also saw a box of some stuff (all of my questions seem to start this way) called "Tetra Start Zyme." Is this basically water conditioner with fancy stuff to help protect the fish?

7. Now that I have more time on my hands, what is the best way for me to cycle my tank?
Edit: I have read the thread(s) on cycling, but I'm wondering what people's opinions are on the safest/most effective method.

8. Before she passed away, I had been keeping my female betta in a bowl. I've kept the water, in case it would help cycle the tank. Would it, or was she in there too short a time? Also, she wasn't eating (or pooping, obviously) so all that was in there was a few kibbles of food I put in. I also read that a method involves putting food in the tank and letting it break down so the bacteria can eat it; just in case I sprinkled some flakes in there. Am I wasting my time?

9. I think this question may belong in another forum (as if all the other ones don't, too), but rather than start a new thread, I'll just throw it here. Can anyone tell me what kind of fish I've included a picture of? I know it's a catfish, but not much else. Would it be happy living in my tank, or do I need a small school of them? (I only saw the one at the store.)

Thanks! I took pictures of the products I mentioned, so let me know if you'd like me to upload one for reference.

 

Ok... I don't know about any of those chemicals but I always cycle a tank the natural way... the breaking down of fish food. Also about keeping that water, that was a good idea although there is no bacteria in the water there is probably ammonia so putting that in the tank would give you a bit of ammonia to start cycling with. To cycle the tank, buy an API master test kit and test for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates as you add fish food every day to the tank. As you monitor the levels every few days you should see ammonia go up and back down and then nitrites go up and back down and finally you will start getting nitrates. Once there are no nitrites or ammonia, you can add some fish after a few water changes. Then you stop adding food for ammonia and start adding food for fish. Just be sure you have a good filter going and that you have at least a sponge or two and biological media like lava rocks or something. The carbon is just to get rid of smells and color in the water and it will take out all medications and chemicals from the water that you add so if you go the chemical route don't get carbon in your filter.

 

I'll put my answers in red

Hello all,

I wasn't really sure what forum my questions best fit in, so I apologize if I picked the wrong one (again).

I'll be putting together my 55-gallon fish tank this weekend, and last night I went out to peruse the aisles of the LFS. I had a few questions about things I saw there:
1. Before I needed to set the tank up as quickly as possible, but due to the untimely passing of my pretty female betta, I have a bit more time on my hands. People had suggested Tetra Safe Start, but as mentioned, it's a bit expensive ($20+ for the 75-gallon-and-up size). Would it be recommended to buy the 30-gallon-and-up size just to get things going (knowing it wouldn't be enough to fully stock the tank right away)? Or now that I can wait a few weeks to stock it, should I avoid the TSS route due to the cost?

TSS is a good product, but as you've seen, very pricey. You could, in all actuality, just use the old filter media from your 10 gallon in the new, and put new media in the 10 gallon filter. This will allow you to move you pleco in there with no problems.


2. I saw a bottle of some stuff called API Quick Start. Is this the same as TSS? (I believe it was cheaper, though I don't remember exactly.) It does say "Allows instant addition of fish" and "Immediately starts aquarium cycle" on the bottle. Does anyone have any experience with it, or how it compares to TSS?

No, this is not the same. I've never heard of it, but I bet its just another StressZyme or Cycle type product. Perhaps some one knows about it, and can help you

3. Rather than test kits, I saw a few thingies you hang in the tank that monitor ammonia/pH/whatever. Are these reliable at all?

I've wondered the same thing, since I received one in the mail a few weeks ago. It seems they aren't, as much as they claim to be, and they will actually cost you more money in the long run. I actually don't have my own test kit, and I don't really plan to. But that's just me.

4. Someone mentioned that they don't use carbon filters. So does that mean I just use the sponge media? The filter I have has a large sponge media with four slots for carbon packet-things. I also saw some "carbon-ammonia neutralizing blend." What is this, and should I put some in those packet-things?

Just using filter sponge is perfectly fine. Loads cheaper, too. I do, however, keep carbon on hand in the event I have to medicate the tank. The ammonia reducer stuff is a way for companies and pet stores to get your money. With weekly water changes (or how ever often you need to to keep your parameters in line) ammonia should not be an issue.

5. I also saw a bottle of "Bacteria Supplement." Is this the same as TSS (or the API stuff)? It's a smaller bottle that says it treats 240 gallons, so I imagine it must be something different.

Most bacteria supplements are land based bacteria, like that live in soil, and will die off quickly. Another waste of your money

6. I also saw a box of some stuff (all of my questions seem to start this way) called "Tetra Start Zyme." Is this basically water conditioner with fancy stuff to help protect the fish?

I've never heard of the this, but I don't think you'd need it, either.

7. Now that I have more time on my hands, what is the best way for me to cycle my tank?
Edit: I have read the thread(s) on cycling, but I'm wondering what people's opinions are on the safest/most effective method.

Istant cycling, like I stated above, would be good if you were to just add the pleco and a couple small fish to start off with. After that, adding a fish or two every few weeks until you are stocked shouldn't cause you any problems.

8. Before she passed away, I had been keeping my female betta in a bowl. I've kept the water, in case it would help cycle the tank. Would it, or was she in there too short a time? Also, she wasn't eating (or pooping, obviously) so all that was in there was a few kibbles of food I put in. I also read that a method involves putting food in the tank and letting it break down so the bacteria can eat it; just in case I sprinkled some flakes in there. Am I wasting my time?

Water does not help cycle a tank, but the filter media, gravel, and decor, where the bacteria live.

9. I think this question may belong in another forum (as if all the other ones don't, too), but rather than start a new thread, I'll just throw it here. Can anyone tell me what kind of fish I've included a picture of? I know it's a catfish, but not much else. Would it be happy living in my tank, or do I need a small school of them? (I only saw the one at the store.)

Sorry, I personally can't. He's cute, though!

Thanks! I took pictures of the products I mentioned, so let me know if you'd like me to upload one for reference.

 

Daac: I've also read about adding straight ammonia to the tank rather than food and waiting for the food to break down. Do you prefer the food method over the liquid ammonia method? (It would be cheaper at least, since I have a sample bag of flakes that came with the tank, and they're too smushed to feed fish with.)


Edit - Akari_32: Thanks for all your answers! I will definitely not be wasting my money on those products. So, you don't think I need to officially cycle my tank if I move the filter media over, and put just the pleco in (and a few others) to start? Would the 10-gallon be okay with putting brand new media in (IE, is there enough bacteria on the rocks and such)? Also, will the fact that I (before I knew better) rinsed the filter and rocks/plants in tap water make the "move the media to the new tank" method less effective?

 

I've also read about adding straight ammonia to the tank rather than food and waiting for the food to break down. Do you prefer the food method over the liquid ammonia method? (It would be cheaper at least, since I have a sample bag of flakes that came with the tank, and they're too smushed to feed fish with.)

You could do it either way.

 

A lot of good answers from AkarI above. The only thing I would like to clarify is that ammonia removing carbon will strip the ammonia out of the water (until it gets saturated and stops absorbing ammonia). But by doing such, it takes the food source away from the bacteria and you would never truely cycle.

Is the 10 gallon tank fully cycled?

If so, putting the filter media from the 10 gallon tanks filter into the new tanks filter should give you an instant cycle assuming you are just transfering the Pleco (and Betta?) to the new tank.

But keep in mind, you will only have enough bacteria to handle that bioload, so you will have to stock that tank slowly (i.e. only 2 or 3 fish every 2 weeks or so) so that the bacteria gets a chance to catch up.

 

Straight ammonia would work too if you want to spend the money

 

jdhef: I'm not sure if you would call the 10-gallon fully cycled or not. When I first set it up, I was aware of "cycling a tank before you put fish in," but unfortunately I thought this meant "turn it on and let the water run through the filter for a day or two." So when I put the male betta in first (by himself), I'm guessing it was mostly bacteria-free (well, the good stuff, anyway). Then I put in a pleco a few weeks later, and then a pictus cat a few more weeks later, and then a female betta this past weekend. I returned the pictus cat because he was eating the two other bettas, and put the female in a bowl because A) too many fish and B) the male was chasing her (I didn't see anything violent, but it seemed to stress her regardless, and I couldn't be certain of what was going on at night). The female betta unfortunately didn't make it (a mysterious white tissue hanging from her abdomen has yet to be determined as an ovipositor, hookworms, or (hopefully not) intestines, since I've heard males can try to disembowel females), so now it's just the male betta and the pleco. Long story short (okay, not so short), there's been plenty of fish in there, but unfortunately a few weeks ago, I read that you should rinse the filter. Unfortunately the website didn't specify to rinse in tank water, and I rinsed it in tapwater. Also, the plants (thin parts the pleco couldn't get) were turning brown, so I rinsed the plants and rocks off, also in tapwater. So, at one point, there was a veritable metropolis of bacteria, but I'm not certain how much remain. Also, it's a small filter (roughly 3"x4"), so I'm not sure how much effect it would have on a 55-gallon tank.

 

That tank may not have been cycled then since like 80 to 90 percent of the bacteria lives in the filter. Also about it not being effective in the 50 that isn't true. If there is enough bacteria in the filter for it to support those two fish in the 10 gallon it will be fine for the 50 gallon also bioload wise but it certainly won't be enough filtration wise. I would get a big filter rated for more than 50 gallons and run that and the 10 gallon filter on the 50 gallon at the same time for a few weeks so the big filter can become colonized and then you can remove the little filter if you want to.

 

Id say by now your tank is certainly cycled, or at least close enough to help with an instant cycle. You said that you were doing 30% water changes every week, in your other thread? I'd say you're fine, really

Don't rinse anything in tap water. You're killing the good stuff Instead just rub it off

 

I have definitely learned where to rinse and where to not rinse!

Should I move the male betta into the 55-gallon while I have the filter from the 10-gallon in it, and move him (and the filter) back once the tank is ready?

 

No, he'll be alright as long as you keep the gravel (or some of it) in there for him. Gravel and filter media house the most of the good bacteria, but mostly the media. Moving him would just stress him out.

 

Normally when I do the weekly water change, I vacuum the gravel (though I only occasionally move the big rocks and get underneath). Should I not vacuum while the filter is out?

 

I always vacuum the gravel. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Notice I recommended putting the filter media from the 10's filter into the filter for the 55 gallon tank.

If there is enough bacteria in the 10 gallon tanks filter (and I am not convinced that there is) to have cycled the 10 gallon tank (i.e handle the bioload of the 10 gallon tank) then there should be enoungh bacteria to handle the same bioload in a larger tank.

But the problem with just hanging the 10 gallon tank's filter on the 55 (along with an appropriate filter for the 55) is that the small filter will not be able to move enough ammonia ladded water through it per hour to keep the ammonia levels down.

By putting the media of the 10's filter into the 55's filter (in addition to the media that comes with the 55's filter) you will ensure that enough water is passing thru the media to convert all ammonia/nitrites, plus it will allow the bacteria to easily start taking up residence in the 55's filter media which will help greatly when you start fully stocking the tank.

 

Is it important that when the water flows through the filter, it his the 10-gallon media before the new media? (So the flow carries it over?) Or does it not work that way?

Also, I currently have the new filter, but won't be setting up the tank until this weekend. Should I stick the new media in the current tank? It wouldn't fit in the filter-holder-thing (it's way too big), but I could just float it on top of the water if it would help.

 

I can give you the answer to the window monitors. They are NOT reliable. It gives the wrong PH level and the ammonia does not reflect the actual reading. Get a test kit it will save fish lives in the long run for the money. I think they are called Aqua Alert.

Welcome to Fishlore.

 

Is it important that when the water flows through the filter, it his the 10-gallon media before the new media? (So the flow carries it over?) Or does it not work that way?

Also, I currently have the new filter, but won't be setting up the tank until this weekend. Should I stick the new media in the current tank? It wouldn't fit in the filter-holder-thing (it's way too big), but I could just float it on top of the water if it would help.

If possible it would be best to put the old media right up against the new media, so the bacteria could move (crawl? I'm not sure what to call it.) To the new media and start growing on it. I don't think floating the new media would really do much in a week's time.

 

It shouldn't matter if it goes thru the new media first or the old as far as the bacteria consuming the ammonia/nitrites. But it might be better to have the water pass thru the new media first to help prevent the old media from getting gunked up with debris.