URGENT! what's killing all my cories?

In my 10g tank, one of my panda cories seemed unable to swim correctly, it seemed to have a lot of trouble controlling it's direction, as well as staying upright. Also, I can't put my finger on what looked wrong with it, but it just looked really sick, as if it was half dead already. the other 3 cories (1 other oanda, 2 unknown species) seemed lethargic too. Next, the other panda cory started twitching to the side, like it would half roll over, and in a split second be upright and swimming. A few hours later the sick panda cory was dead. Since the water looked cloudy despite water changes, I assumed there was something in the water, and moved them to my 10g quarantine tank. They where ok for about a week, and then I started experiencing the same problem with my other panda cory, no cloudy water this time, but still swimming all funny. Few days later, DEAD. I then noticed the same thing happening to one of my bronze cories in my 20 gallon planted tank, it actually started to scoot along the sand to stabilize itself since it couldn't swim properly. It also looked really pale, and had no green iridescence to it at all. Few days later, D.E.A.D. they always go hide in the back to die, so went under the radar for possibly a few days, causing my both tanks ammonia to spike to around 0.25ppm. I also noticed a bronze cory lying on it's side, but it then got back up and seemed fine.

EMERGENCY TEMPLATES:
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20g tank:
Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 20 gallons
How long has the tank been running? Since this summer
Does it have a filter? Modified Aqueon
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 78° Fahrenheit
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
3x bronze cories (was 4 until 1 died), 2x honey gourami, 2x otocinclus catfish, 1x apistogramma (borellii or steel blue, I'm not sure). Lots of plants (amazon swords, anubias, and dwarf sag).

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? I aim for once a week, but test the water frequently and sometimes skip water changes if it doesn't need them and I'm feeling lazy.
How much of the water do you change? About 30%
What do you use to treat your water? API stress coat or SeaChem Prime.
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Vacuum

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? I did a fish-in cycle with a gourami.
What do you use to test the water? API Master Test Kit.
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: was none until fish died (causing ammonia spike)
Nitrite: none.
Nitrate: very very low.
pH: 7.6

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? About once a day
How much do you feed your fish? Small pinch of flakes, and a Sera sinking wafer/pellet that the cories all share, sometimes only half of one. Occasionally I feed frozen-thawed blood worms.
What brand of food do you feed your fish?
Sera "san natuer" color enhancing flakes
Sera "VipaChips" tropical crisps for bottom dwellers
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?
I occasionally feed frozen-thawed blood worms

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? Months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? A few days ago.
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? I already did in the post.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Not yet, but I will start doing extra water changes in hopes that it will help.
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? Not that I'm aware of.
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

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10g tank:

NOTE: for this tank, if something is the same as the 20g tank, I will leave it blank.

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Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 10 gallons
How long has the tank been running? A few months.
Does it have a filter? Yes, sponge filter.
Does it have a heater? Yes
What is the water temperature? 78
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
Currently 2 unknown species cories (panda cories died due to unknown cory killer), 1x thick lipped gourami.
Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Same as 20g
How much of the water do you change? 30%
What do you use to treat your water? Same as 20g
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Vac

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? Yes
What do you use to test the water? API test kit.
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: was none until spike caused by dead fish
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: around 20
pH: 6.5

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? Same as 20.
How much do you feed your fish? A very small pinch of flakes (enough for 1 gourami) and a sinking pellet for cories
What brand of food do you feed your fish?
Fluval Bug Bites Flakes "betta formula", and same cory food as other tank
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods?
Occasionally.

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? Months
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? A week or two.
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
Have you started any treatment for the illness?
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

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Sound like swim bladder disease

 

If I was a betting lady, I'd say this problem is parasitic.
Often effects corys first as they are closest to the substrate where parasites hide in their cystic form.
Since you don't see white spots, I'm going to guess perhaps velvet...flukes is rarer and usually slower.
It's a long shot but I think you should test for velvet just incase, as you have a PH of 6.5 in that 10g and thats the dream environment for it.
Turn all the lights off in the room, turn the lights off in the tank, close curtains/blinds and make sure you have complete darkness. Use a bright flashlight (like one on a cellphone) and shine it on the fish. Do you see a gold/green sheen like sparkle all over the body/fins, not just on the gills as this is natural for most corys?
You should also see flashing/scratching on substrate in addition, but this is hard to see unless your watching a long time.
All I can think of right now. Hope it stops

 

Sound like swim bladder disease

what causes swim bladder disease and how do I stop it?

If I was a betting lady, I'd say this problem is parasitic.
Often effects corys first as they are closest to the substrate where parasites hide in their cystic form.
Since you don't see white spots, I'm going to guess perhaps velvet...flukes is rarer and usually slower.
It's a long shot but I think you should test for velvet just incase, as you have a PH of 6.5 in that 10g and thats the dream environment for it.
Turn all the lights off in the room, turn the lights off in the tank, close curtains/blinds and make sure you have complete darkness. Use a bright flashlight (like one on a cellphone) and shine it on the fish. Do you see a gold/green sheen like sparkle all over the body/fins, not just on the gills as this is natural for most corys?
You should also see flashing/scratching on substrate in addition, but this is hard to see unless your watching a long time.
All I can think of right now. Hope it stops

The sun sets in like an hour, I'll take a look at the fish then. Also, should I put all the cories in the quarantine tank, and move the gourami back to the 10 gallon, so that the cories will be separated from the other fish so they don't get sick with whatever the fish all have?

 

The sun sets in like an hour, I'll take a look at the fish then. Also, should I put all the cories in the quarantine tank, and move the gourami back to the 10 gallon, so that the cories will be separated from the other fish so they don't get sick with whatever the fish all have?

If it is indeed velvet, you would have to treat both tanks and all fish as they will all be infected albeit at different stages.

what causes swim bladder disease and how do I stop it?

Swim bladder disease is a symptom rather than a disease in itself, it's just an infection of the swim bladder organ. For there to be an infection there must be an 'entrance' for bacteria. Your water is good so no ammonia burns, you don't have any fish injuring each other.. So I suspect it's the wounds caused by some sort of parasite as it feeds on the fish.

Keep us updated.

 

If I was a betting lady, I'd say this problem is parasitic.
Often effects corys first as they are closest to the substrate where parasites hide in their cystic form.
Since you don't see white spots, I'm going to guess perhaps velvet...flukes is rarer and usually slower.
It's a long shot but I think you should test for velvet just incase, as you have a PH of 6.5 in that 10g and thats the dream environment for it.
Turn all the lights off in the room, turn the lights off in the tank, close curtains/blinds and make sure you have complete darkness. Use a bright flashlight (like one on a cellphone) and shine it on the fish. Do you see a gold/green sheen like sparkle all over the body/fins, not just on the gills as this is natural for most corys?
You should also see flashing/scratching on substrate in addition, but this is hard to see unless your watching a long time.
All I can think of right now. Hope it stops

bronze cories always have green, but I did see a tiny hint of blue-green(or maybe green-blue) shine on my apistogramma, but since I'm not 100% sure what species it is, it could be a steel blue apistogramma that's just starting to color up? the color of an adult male "steel blue" is very similar to the color on my apisto. I don't think my otos look green, but I can't see them well because they're hiding in the back. honey gourami is not green. none of the fish in the 10g quarantine tank look green.

 

With Cory cats, it's usually parasites. My guess is the swim bladder disease is a symptom of a secondary bacterial infection from a weakened immune system due to the parasites.

You should identify the parasites and treat the tank.

I would also suggest adding Indian almond leaves because they are naturally anti-bacterial and anti-fungal. The tannins are great for the fish.

 

With Cory cats, it's usually parasites. My guess is the swim bladder disease is a symptom of a secondary bacterial infection from a weakened immune system due to the parasites.

You should identify the parasites and treat the tank.

I would also suggest adding Indian almond leaves because they are naturally anti-bacterial and anti-fungal. The tannins are great for the fish.

if it's parasites, they're some pretty hard to identify ones. is there a med to treat them all?

Well, after things being ok for awhile, I found the gourami from my 10g tank quite thoroughly dead. This time I'll photograph the bods incase someone can tell what killed it.

WARNING: THIS POST CONTAINS IMAGES OF A DEAD FISH, FOR THE PURPOSES OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT KILLED IT. IF YOU ARE NOT OK WITH SEEING DEAD FISH, PLEASE LOOK AWAY.
Here are pics, anyone know what's with the red on her side? It also smelled terrible. I'm pretty bummed out about this one, I was rather fond of that gourami.

NOTE TO MODS: the reason this is a separate post is because it was posted a hew hours after the previous, meaning people have probably already viewed the previous, so they won't get notif5 if that's the case, and I want people to get notified as there are now photos. Please don't merge these posts.

I really need some help here, at this point I'm ready to just start throwing random meds at them, as I feel like if I don't do something they're goners.

 

I'm sorry to hear about this update. The fish looks externally fine, if the redness only appeared after death (and the fish smells) I'd think normal decomposition of organs.
Do you have invertebrates in the tank and can you move them?
I don't think this is flukes or worms, they just aren't that good at hiding their presence on the fish but I don't know.
I'd personally go ahead and treat with a copper based medication at this rate.
You can also use malachite green and formalin, but personally for me, I found it took longer to work and I had higher mortality.
You can also combine powdered prazinquantel with most medications safely to also treat worms/flukes as well if you are seeing high death rate and no improvement. I use seachem cupramine and powdered prazi as I am in the UK but I have been told there are better copper meds available if you are in the US.
(suggestions anyone?)
Some strains of parasites, both velvet and ich, can hide in the gills and intestines while showing little or no external symptoms. Chilodonella can also behave in such a way. Some information about that here.
However, the one thing all these parasites have in common is they are predisposed to die when exposed to copper, malachite green and formalin.
Sorry I cant help more, hopefully some brainy people can help!

 

I'm sorry to hear about this update. The fish looks externally fine, if the redness only appeared after death (and the fish smells) I'd think normal decomposition of organs.
Do you have invertebrates in the tank and can you move them?
I don't think this is flukes or worms, they just aren't that good at hiding their presence on the fish but I don't know.
I'd personally go ahead and treat with a copper based medication at this rate.
You can also use malachite green and formalin, but personally for me, I found it took longer to work and I had higher mortality.
You can also combine powdered prazinquantel with most medications safely to also treat worms/flukes as well if you are seeing high death rate and no improvement. I use seachem cupramine and powdered prazi as I am in the UK but I have been told there are better copper meds available if you are in the US.
(suggestions anyone?)
Some strains of parasites, both velvet and ich, can hide in the gills and intestines while showing little or no external symptoms. Chilodonella can also behave in such a way. Some information about that here.
However, the one thing all these parasites have in common is they are predisposed to die when exposed to copper, malachite green and formalin.
Sorry I cant help more, hopefully some brainy people can help!

I don't know what they're made of, but will Seachem Kanaplex, API fungus cure, Levamisole(I do know what that one is made of, it's made of levamisole), or off brand ich meds work?

 

Is it to to mix meds?

 

UPDATE: 2 out of four bronze cories left in 20g, 2/2 unknown species from 10g, moved to 20g, 0/2 panda cories left from 10g, gourami from 10g is dead. treating all remaining fish of the two with SeaChem Kanaplex in the 20g. if this doesn't work I'll get a copper based med. if the Kanaplex does work, I'll want to treat the 10g with it before I put any new fish in it, the problem is that it has 2 nerite snails, and Kanaplex kills snails. I could move the nerites to another tank with my guppies, but am worried this disease could hitchhike on my nerites and get the guppies sick, and I don't want to lose Bill and Ted, could this happen? or are there any safe alternatives to Kanaplex?

 

Hey, I am totally out of my depth here as I know nothing about US meds. I was really hoping someone from US would jump in with advice.
I think snails can only pass on parasites in the 'cyst' stage, where parasites attach to surfaces in the aquarium and sometimes snails shells. So you would just need to starve out this single stage, they will then hatch, not find a fish to bury into and eat and quickly die.
Nerites can live at quite cool temps and provided your house is above 65f, you could put them in a container like a toy boxes, bucket, washing bowls etc and do large daily wc. 10 days should do it at the lower temps, if you have a higher house temp or a heater this could easily be shortened, I think its only 3 days at 78f.
This is what I'd do if I couldn't find a snail safe med.
I really wish I could help more, hope your fishys beat this and your snails are safe!

 

Do they have gold dust on them? If they have gold coloring it’s velvet. Otherwise it’s probably parasite and medication wise I would use api general cure

 

No signs of velvet, or parasites, so should I just put the nerites in a bucket and wait for the disease to die? Also, we don't know it's parasites, it could be bacterial too.

 

I tend to agree with internal infection or internal parasite ideas, as the external (ick, velvet, etc) would be quite visible at this stage. Since you had the fish for a long time, it is unlikely that they came with the pathogen. With the exception of the late gourami, it seems specific to cories. Though they are the canary in the mine in terms of water conditions, I know you meticulously maintain your water quality. That leaves me with the suspicion that it is something they ate. This occasional feeding of fresh or frozen food, how reliable are the sources? How long did it take to finish off after you opened the package? In other words, is there any possibility that the food could go bad?

 

I tend to agree with internal infection or internal parasite ideas, as the external (ick, velvet, etc) would be quite visible at this stage. Since you had the fish for a long time, it is unlikely that they came with the pathogen. With the exception of the late gourami, it seems specific to cories. Though they are the canary in the mine in terms of water conditions, I know you meticulously maintain your water quality. That leaves me with the suspicion that it is something they ate. This occasional feeding of fresh or frozen food, how reliable are the sources? How long did it take to finish off after you opened the package? In other words, is there any possibility that the food could go bad?

I haven't fed frozen in awhile and the packet of bloodworms was brand new last time I did. also, about "meticulously maintaining water quality", I'd say I try to meticulously maintain water quality, but in reality I just do an ok job at it despite my best efforts. things in my tanks have a tendency to suddenly go south for no reason, which is why I test frequently, so I can catch it before it gets dangerous for the fish. also why is your username veggieshark?

 

I haven't fed frozen in awhile and the packet of bloodworms was brand new last time I did. also, about "meticulously maintaining water quality", I'd say I try to meticulously maintain water quality, but in reality I just do an ok job at it despite my best efforts. things in my tanks have a tendency to suddenly go south for no reason, which is why I test frequently, so I can catch it before it gets dangerous for the fish. also why is your username veggieshark?

If my comment on your water quality sounded sarcastic, it wasn't meant to be (in case you thought so from our other debate). I said it as a rationale for eliminating water maintenance issues.

I find sharks amazing, but also scary. So, I thought it would be cool if there was a vegetarian great white that you could hang out with. When I used that name in other forums, people found it to be too long and started saying things like "hey veggie shark", and so I chose that this time. Of course, it is still sad to watch a great white jumping 30 ft out of water with a helpless water melon in its mouth, but hey.

 

If my comment on your water quality sounded sarcastic, it wasn't meant to be (in case you thought so from our other debate). I said it as a rationale for eliminating water maintenance issues.

I find sharks amazing, but also scary. So, I thought it would be cool if there was a vegetarian great white that you could hang out with. When I used that name in other forums, people found it to be too long and started saying things like "hey veggie shark", and so I chose that this time. Of course, it is still sad to watch a great white jumping 30 ft out of water with a helpless water melon in its mouth, but hey.

it didn't sound sarcastic, I was just saying my water quality is only sometimes meticulous.