Urgent HELP: Sick fish cant figure out whats wrong.

Nail

Member
Uhg I've been trying to cure my fish but I just can't figure out what's wrong with them, I've treated them for just about everything, I've seperated the fish showing symptoms but reguardless I'd hate to lose them. They show symptoms of ammonia poisoning but there's no ammonia and now one looks like it's hemorrhaging from every oraphus of his tiny little body it's so sad looking at him. I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing that he stopped sitting around aimlessly with his head at the surface or not, and it's just all my danios with these symptoms. >: Help me?
 

Jake the Fish

Member
Post some pictures asap! If you do some members can help you.

I hope your fish will be alright,
Jake
 
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Nail

Member
That's kinda like asking the impossible they're so tiny. I'd have to use my cellphone for pictures which isn't great quality what if I drew a picture?
 

Jake the Fish

Member
Well pictures usually are more helpful.

Also, wait for other members to help you. I don't keep danios so maybe ask your LFS or people who keep danios.
 
  • Thread Starter

Nail

Member
I've gone to three different ones including the one I usually buy my fish from, I've treating them for internal parasites external, bacteria, ich, velvet, Ive been changing the water constantly. You have NO idea how much ive spent on fish medication, there's so much of it sitting in my room I'm probably going to get cancer from it all. And it's frustrating, because I don't know if I should be treating my angels too or not since I quarentined them when I don't know what's wrong. The pet store said the water quality was absalutely perfect except for the PH level was a little high so I neutralized it. 1 out of six of the danios looks like it's bleeding to death from every oraphusof it's tiny little body and it's horrible to look at.
 

Butterfly

Member
Could you please post your water test parameters please. ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.
Anytime there is an obvious problem a large water change is your first line of defense. It will certainly make the fish feel better.
Carol
 
  • Moderator

Lucy

Moderator
Member
HI Nail, welcome to FishLore
I'm really sorry you're having problems.
However, please don't be rude, it's against forum rules, as is the use of curse words.

We realize that you're frustrated, however, it's only been a little over an hour since you started this thread.
Please be patient, sometimes you have to wait for the right person to log on who can help you.

Best of luck, I hope someone will be able to help you.
 

Meenu

Member
Good morning, Nail, and welcome to fishlore. I am sorry that you are having trouble with your fish. When our fish get sick, it is usually related to water conditions, so that is the first thing we try to rule out. Knowing your water parameters would be very helpful.

I know that you are upset. The members here will try to help you.
 
  • Thread Starter

Nail

Member
Butterfly said:
Could you please post your water test parameters please. ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate.
Anytime there is an obvious problem a large water change is your first line of defense. It will certainly make the fish feel better.
Carol
ammonia 0, id have to check nitrate and nitrite again to get exact numbers, but steadily they have been good. I have been changing the water constantly. the first one was big and I vacuum whenever I change the water.
 

Butterfly

Member
Nail said:
ammonia 0, id have to check nitrate and nitrite again to get exact numbers, but steadily they have been good. I have been changing the water constantly. the first one was big and I vacuum whenever I change the water.
Thank you for your response. Please do re check the nitrite and Nitrate.
What all have you treated the fish for? What meds have you used?
Have you added any new fish or plants lately?
Carol
 
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Nail

Member
The only thing that was abit high was the PH level I had the pet store even check my water conditions on everything to make sure my tests were working properly. They confirmed that everything was fine but the PH level which I've now treated.
 

Aquarist

Member
Good morning,

I would highly suggest that you not add any chemicals to alter your pH levels. I see that you've stated that you neutralized it as it was a bit high. Most fish can adapt to the pH levels directly from the tap. Chemicals used to alter pH levels can be unstable and lead to a pH crash.
There are natural ways to alter your pH described in the link below:

Best wishes!
Ken
 

Meenu

Member
Hmmm.. if you added stuff to alter your pH, that can sometimes crash a tank. How long ago was that?

Also, most fish will adjust to the pH of your tank, but fluctuations can be dangerous for them. If the new pH stressed them out, then they would be more susceptible to illness, as stress can lead to a compromised immune system.
 

Butterfly

Member
Testing your own tanks ahs distinct advantageous. Pet stores will frequently say your numbers are fisn hoping you will buy more stuff as you see with the pH adjuster.
Please tell us what meds you've used so we know what you've treated for.

When you did water changes what dechlorinating agent did you use?
carol
 
  • Thread Starter

Nail

Member
Ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0, ph neutral.

I don't keep live plants so no live plants, I recently got a BGK and 2 angelfish which I quarentined before putting into my tank, the BGK has passed away last week though from probably what my danios are dying from. My angels seem fine but starting to show some of the danios symptoms.

And I adjusted the PH level today, my fish have been dying for like 2 weeks now.

And medicines i've used are, parasite clear by jungle, antI parasite by jungle, malachite green, Mardel coppersafe, metronidazole.

I've merged your posts since they were back to back with no response between. This helps to save some space on the forum. There is an EDIT key at the bottom of every post that you can use for corrections or additional thoughts should there not be an immediate response.
Thanks!
KEn
 

Aquarist

Member
Hello Nail,

Either your tank isn't cycled or you're going through a minI cycle for some reason. Or either you need to really mix that Nitrate bottle really well. Beat it in your hand, on the counter for a couple of minutes. Without a planted tank you should have some trace of Nitrates. Best under 20. Sometimes crystals form in the bottom of the bottles and may give an inaccurate reading.

Let's see what others have to say.

I have a feeling there is so much medications in the tank that the cycle may have already crashed.
Ken
 

Meenu

Member
0 nitrates means your tank is not cycled. I'm not sure if it is a situation where it never was, or is now going through a mini-cycle.

Daily water changes with a conditioner called Prime will help. Your tank is cycled when your readings are 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites, and 5-20 nitrates. You'll first see a rise in ammonia, then nitrites, and finally nitrates.

I think your fish may have been getting sick because of exposure to a cycling tank. It leaves the immune system weakened.

edit: Ken's a
 
  • Thread Starter

Nail

Member
....I shook it really hard all of them, nothing, there is NOTHING. And my fish were showing their symptoms long before I put any medication into the tank, ive recently removed the danios because theyre on their last leg and put them in my 10 gallon holding tank, my angels seem perfectly fins my neons are alive and well my loach is good. it just the danios.

My danios were my cycling fish for all my tanks. They were the first fish I baught and I purchased them in the beginning to cycle my tank.
 

Meenu

Member
Nail said:
My danios were my cycling fish for all my tanks. They were the first fish I baught and I purchased them in the beginning to cycle my tank.
Ah, that explains a lot. Cycling with fish is extremely hard on them. The exposure to toxins burns gills and does internal organ damage. If it doesn't kill them, it shortens their lives. Poor fish.

The members of this forum teach methods to cycle a tank without adding fish. It requires some patience, but doesn't harm anyone. If you start a tank in the future, we can help you with these methods.
 
  • Thread Starter

Nail

Member
well only my blue fins were my original starting fish, which are in the worst shape and have ammonia burn. the zebras have been well best way I can describe it is seizures. They twitch flinch and bolt, rapid breathing etc. The bluefin who originally started symptoms is now hemorrhaging , 1 of the blue fins have already which was the other original theyre severely anorexic, though the bluefins have stopped sitting at the top now but still rapid breathing twitching flinching etc, I'm guessing I'm doing something right.
 

Meenu

Member
Let me add that I agree that the medications and/or the pH stuff crashed your cycle. So even though there's no ammonia right now, the previous exposure to ammonia for the danios has left them sick. I think your original diagnosis of ammonia poisoning is correct.

The best thing you can do for your fish is to keep the water pristine. It will help your fish stay healthier so that you don't have such severe issues in the future.
 

sirdarksol

Member
Another thing that can look similar to ammonia poisoning is chlorine/chloramine poisoning. Are you dosing with a dechlorinator with each water change?

Also, there were comments (I think in one of the deleted posts) about medicating for numerous problems. This is likely further stressing the fish. Most meds have side effects. If treating a known disease, the benefits usually outweigh the risks, but throwing medication at a problem can exacerbate existing issues. I would run some fresh carbon in the filter to pull the meds out, and then work to identify the problem before treating any further.
 
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Nail

Member
I'm pretty sure it's not. they haven't been exposed to ammonia for months. cycled or uncycled there is no ammonia in that tank and there hasnt been for a while. That's why it's puzzling. And 2 out of those medications is orally fed to the fish 1 ive only started them on yesterday. they've been showing that theyre sick for a few weeks.

Well the treatments I used covered a large range of illnesses, I had to half dose all of them to my 50 gallon tank because of my neons and scaleless fish, the black knife died a few days after he entered the tank he had strange white blotches and whatnot on him in the end. the the copper safe I treated the tank with before I added the new fish long before for ick on the neons and danios.

Merged posts.
Thanks!
Ken
 

Butterfly

Member
You've really got a medicine soup there. One of the meds has killed all of your beneficial bacteria, If I had to guess I would say it was the coppersafe. if you have loaches of any kind you have to watch what meds you use. Surprised he survived. that's one tough little kuhlI
So lets start over. Do large water changes for the next couple of days to get rid of all the meds and pH adjuster.
Danios are usually really tough fish but when they go through a cycle they can be significantly weakened and this is what I think happened. They are sick as a result.
Your tank will need to recycle and rebuild beneficial bacteria. Daily water changes and checking water parameters frequently.
what dechlorinating agent have you been using? Prime is an excellent dechlorinator for when your cycling. let us know how things are going.
Carol
 
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Nail

Member
I use NovAqua, but this doesn't tell me WHATS WRONG WITH THEM, weakened or not there is something very wrong with them they can't be dying from ammonia if there is no ammonia to die from, they were fine before and now theyre not, theyre swimming around in circles and spazzing around, before they were happy and schooling together in their big tank and now they are dying and 1 of 7 have already died. D: I've treated them for everything the only new thing that's happened to the tank out of ordinary was brown algae which has been growing rapidly which ive cleaned up just as quickly along with constant water changes every single day.
 

Meenu

Member
That's what I was trying to explain above. Even if there isn't currently any ammonia, the previous exposure to it damaged them. The effects of ammonia poisoning can be permanent, and can manifest itself later. It is possible that they've been a little bit sick for a while, and just recently got sick enough that you could see it
 

Aquarist

Member
Nail have you used all of those treatments and antibiotics at the same time? I have to think that the underlying cause is ammonia. If all of these treatments and the antibiotics were used at the same time then they may be suffering from being over medicated.

I suggest you follow Butterflys' advice in post #25
Ken
 
  • Thread Starter

Nail

Member
All of them? Even the ones that didnt cycle? Only my bluefins were the ones that cycled I started with quite a few but they died one by one I wouldnt doubt from ammonia. But I also have 3 zebra long fins and a leopard danio which I didn't cycle with, I added them because they bluefins were short some guys for a school. And theyre showing some of the symptoms where the bluefins are showing the same along with some others like hemorrhaging.
 
  • Moderator

Lucy

Moderator
Member
Something is remember, during the cycling process, fish are exposed to toxic levels ammonia.
This weakens their immune system. Although visually we cannot see the damage done, it's there, just internally.

I agree with Carol, let's back up.

What exactly were the original symptoms you were treating for?
What fish were in the tank when you first started treating?
Were any fish adding after you started treating?
If so, were the new fish quarentined?
Also were any fish added with out a proper Q time?
 
  • Thread Starter

Nail

Member
I'm not crazy no I didn't use them all at once, I changed most the water waited a week and then tried another. BESIDES the oral medication which I can use with a water medication at the same time with no terrible side effect. copper safe I used long before any of this so technically its not in the tank anymore I treated the ich which happened before which more than likely was a symptom. The symptoms are:

flinching
twitching,
bolting
anorexia/refusing to eat (NOT ALL THE DANIOS HAVE THIS SYMPTOM)
Swimming in circles.
Listlessness
rapid gill movement (Only 3 have this symptom the 2 bluefins and the leopard danio)which ofcourse this includes the rapid mouth movement.)
Sitting at the top of the tank head only and swimming around(only 2 danios have this symptom now, the rest have stopped and even the blues have not been doing it as much lately.
Hemorrhaging (ONLY ONE has this symptom this is the blue fin who has stopped putting its head at the surface.)
Darkened colouration. (All have this symptom)
Trouble swimming (Only the blues have this symptom)

These are the symptoms.

EDIT: The blue fins also had Cotton on their backs with no sign of initial wound which was treated for and is now gone. And clamped fins which only the blues have though looks more like they are unable to use them over them being clamped.
 

Meenu

Member
I know you got really upset when asked for pics earlier... and I know it is unlikely that they will turn out - but any chance you could give it a try with your cell?
 
  • Thread Starter

Nail

Member
Meenu said:
I know you got really upset when asked for pics earlier... and I know it is unlikely that they will turn out - but any chance you could give it a try with your cell?
well my laptops camera is probably better, so I'll try with my laptop. Honestly it's shameful they look so terrible. they don't look better in the 10 gal than they did in the 50 gallon. but I can try.
 
  • Moderator

Lucy

Moderator
Member
Ok, so as I understand it, originally, your fish had ich and you treated for that. What meds did you use for ich?
Ich isn't a symptom, it's a parasite.
Was the ich cured?

If yes, what was the next symptom and med used?

Sorry for my confusion.
Just trying to get a time line down to symptoms and what was used.

Even if all the meds aren't in the tank at the same time, the fish have been exposed to it and have absorbed them into their skin or ingested them.
 

sirdarksol

Member
Alright, starting with the symptoms:
First of all, we're seeing gill damage or lack of oxygen. Sitting at the top, gasping for breath suggests this. The fact that only some of them have it suggests that gill damage is more likely than lack of oxygen. Gill damage could have been caused during the cycle, or it could have been due to an illness picked up during/after the cycle.
Hemorrhaging; short of a pretty nasty disease, hemorrhaging is either ammonia or a similar chemical. A couple of weeks ago, before you started the medication process, had you tested the water for ammonia? Also, what test kit are you using (checking to make sure that the NovAqua isn't messing with the testing reagents)
The rest of the symptoms are more generic, and could point to nearly any illness.

I see nothing that suggests ich (the main symptom of which is white spots, like grains of salt, all over the fish), nor velvet (which shows as a fuzzy patch), which is too bad, as they're among the easiest to diagnose and treat.

On to Medication: Just because one med is water based and the other is food based, doesn't mean that they won't react. And even if they don't react with each other, each still has side effects, which are acting on fish that are already stressed from whatever affliction is ailing them. What's done is done, of course, but I would strongly recommend against such tactics in the future. Meds stress fish out, which actually makes them more susceptible to disease (the same can occur in humans).

Edit: Seriously ninja'd by Lucy and Meenu. ;D
 
  • Thread Starter

Nail

Member
I used coppersafe for the ich. like a month and a half after that I brought hom BGK and 2 angels, after putting them in there the BGK got real sick real quick and went anorexic and weird white blotches appeared on him like it did not atall look like ich they were like BLOTCHES and weird squiggly things came out of them I honestly didn't know what it was, but it looked like an external parasite of somesort I didn't have enough coppersafe to treat my 50 gallon so I baught parasite clear by jungle and treated that unfortunately he ended up dying anyway his name was wilbur. >: and then the danios went ill, and the jungle wasn't working, so I tried malachite because I saw some white fuzz on their backs, and then metronidazole in some frozen brineshrimp. none of those worked so now I'm trying jungle antI parasite pellets.

They did have the white spots long ago and its long gone, lol the coppersafe took care of that. fuzzy WHITE patch on their back is what I treated and diagnosed as cotton which has stopped. the pet store said the oral medication would not effect the other medication so I proceeded.







Pictures LOL really terrible ones.

As for ammonia testing I'm using one by mars fishcare.

Merged posts.
Ken
 

sirdarksol

Member
Okay. I need some help on timing and fish location during each stage, because I'm seeing symptoms and fish that I haven't noticed before.
I'll write what I got from this. Please correct any discrepancies.
1) Some of the fish developed white, salt-like spots. How long ago was this? How long after the cycle was finished? Did you test for ammonia during this time?
2) You treated for ich.
3) You brought home a black ghost knife and two angels. I presume that they weren't quarantined before adding them to the main aquarium.
4) Knife got some sort of parasitic or fungal illness.
5) Treated entire tank with Parasite Clear. Was this before the danios started showing illness? Were they still in the tank at that time?
6) Knife died.
7) Danios got ill. There was white fuzz at this point. What other symptoms showed up here?
8) Treated with malachite green and metronidazole. Just a note, both drugs have some pretty toxic side effects.
9) Fish continued to be sick. What symptoms show up here?
10) You are treating with Jungle anti-parasite pellets.

Last question for now: When in the timeline did you use coppersafe?

Edit: Okay, looks like Mars Fishcare is part of API, and the API test kits work fine with NovAqua, so that shouldn't be a problem.
 
  • Thread Starter

Nail

Member
sirdarksol said:
Okay. I need some help on timing and fish location during each stage, because I'm seeing symptoms and fish that I haven't noticed before.
I'll write what I got from this. Please correct any discrepancies.
1) Some of the fish developed white, salt-like spots. How long ago was this? How long after the cycle was finished? Did you test for ammonia during this time?
2) You treated for ich.
3) You brought home a black ghost knife and two angels. I presume that they weren't quarantined before adding them to the main aquarium.
4) Knife got some sort of parasitic or fungal illness.
5) Treated entire tank with Parasite Clear. Was this before the danios started showing illness? Were they still in the tank at that time?
6) Knife died.
7) Danios got ill. There was white fuzz at this point. What other symptoms showed up here?
8) Treated with malachite green and metronidazole. Just a note, both drugs have some pretty toxic side effects.
9) Fish continued to be sick. What symptoms show up here?
10) You are treating with Jungle anti-parasite pellets.

Last question for now: When in the timeline did you use coppersafe?
The white spots were about....2 and a half months after the initial cycle of my 50 gallon aquarium which the danios and neons were cycling, I noticed white specs and decided on coppersafe, coppersafe was the very fish medication I used, I halfed the dose to protect the 1 coolie loach I have and the neons I only used 1 dose which took like the entire bottle because it was a tiny bottle and I have a huge aquarium, but it worked the ich was done, after a MONTH or more because the coppersafe takes a complete month to fully run it's course I decided to buy a BGK and 2 angels a marble and a zebra. I quarentined them in my 10 gallon aquarium, for about a week, they were FINE. So I added them to my main aquarium. starting with the BGK the fish got sick, the BGK and one of my blue long finned danios. the BGK got weird white blotches on him with white squigglies coming out of them. the danio rapid gill movement anorexia he was severely thin, blackish , clamped fins and listlessness. then the rest started getting sick the other bluefin, I kept treating with the tablets and salt. about 2 weeks later I noticed white fuzz on one of the zebra danios and so I looked around on the rest of them and noticed some others had that on them too, and I decided to clean the tank out put my carbon filter bit back in and vacume. and then treated with malachite after removing the filter piece again. I decided I would use metronidazole aswell because the rest of the danios began showing flinching signs and circling aswell and it APPEARED as if it were internal parasites with the way they were moving. which is why I treated with both medications external and oral. But I decided to move the danios over to the 10 gallon before my angels got whatever they have. and they are fine. where the danios are still struggling. I decided that I have nothing else to lose at them 1 have already died. and the rest look like theyre on their last leg, and decided to use the other kind of internal parasite food. because they werent happy with the brineshrimp, though theyre nibbling at this other kind.

(and I TESTED FOR AMMONIA THE ENTIRE TIME, EVERY WATERCHANGE)

I'm very careful about the ammonia levels because I had a pufferfish die from it and his name was George. and it said on the bottle metronidazole is safe on the bottle and no risk of overdose not that I did overdose I halfdosed what is said to dose. D:

Edit: another thing, I constantly add salt to the aquarium for stress.
Merged posts.
Ken
 

christine828

Member
I am not sure what's going on with the fish and I really hope the people here can figure it out, it sounds like ammonia poisoning to me, since I just went through it myself, but 0 ammonia, I haven't a clue.

What confuses me is there is a from April 4th from you asking for help with your BGK that you got "a few days ago" with your 2 angels, and that you were already treating one of your angels and one of your danios for internal parasites when the BGK started showing signs of illness. But your above post says the BGK got sick with "white squigglies" then died and 2 weeks later you noticed fuzz on the zebras.

I'm just not sure who got sick first, the BGK or the danios? Is it possible the BGK or angels brought something into the tank? You said you quarantined them for a week before you added them to the main tank but your post on the 4th contradicts that a bit. When did you purchase the angels and BGK?
 
  • Moderator

Lucy

Moderator
Member
Nail said:
another thing, I constantly add salt to the aquarium for stress.
I don't think you've mentioned this before.
Have you tested the salinity of the water?
 

Furallicah

Member
Wait.....you constantly add salt to your tank...you do know the only thing that removes the salt is water changes? And that to much salt can cause the exact same problems you are seeing now including hemorrhaging. Also if you used coppersafe....then I fear that is most of your problem right there. Coppersafe is a pretty powerful medication. And it can take a long time for it to get out of a fishes system. Adding the parasite clear could of damaged them as well. But I don't care much about the medication problem because that isn't 100% the problem. It sounds like a mixture of medication clash, salt issues, and ammonia sickness. Best and easiest thing to do is do a 100% water change clean everything out including decor, replace your carbon bags in your filter, and refill the tank with treated water using dechlornator. And to stop adding salt, most fish do not like it and can not handle it. Does your fish look overly slimmy? If so then you do have to much salt in your tank.
 
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