Urgent Help Need.

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TheFishmonger

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I have a major problem. The Celestial Pearl Danios and Shrimp I ordered.. are fry. In a way it's a relief because my 20 gallon did not cycle yet and I don't have to worry about ammonia with these little ones. But I cannot add them in because the Black Ruby Barbs would make quick work of them. Same goes for the shrimp..All of them little ones.

I have 7 CPD fry and 10 very very small Red Cherry Shrimp.

1) I am thinking of cleaning the 5.5 gallon completely down to the glass to add them inside. I won't add a heater as I don't have a second one and fortunately it's summer. I won't add any plants as that would increase the Ammonia, I won't add any filter because they would get sucked in. Am I right in this? Please answer under 1.

2) What the heck do I feed them? What can I feed them till I find the time to go buy some food for them.

3) How often should I do water changes in the 5.5 gallon tank?

Thank you for all replies in advance.
 
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treadingwater

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First, how big are the fry?
Second, you can put a piece of pantyhose over the filter to keep them out.
Third, I’d divide your existing tank and keep the bigger fish away from the smaller with a net and some magnets.
 
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Mongo75

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Only speaking to #1, get a corner or sponge filter. They're gentle on fry and both will start building up the bacteria you need to deal with the nitrogen cycle.

Test your water, treat your water and keep up on water changes as the testing indicates. You're still going to have ammonia, nitrates, etc.

Have you thought about getting a breeding basket?
 
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LMO

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I would definitely add plants especially if you don't add a filter. Plants won't add to ammonia levels unless parts of the plant is rotting eg dead leaves and will actually use up ammonia. Will you add an airstone for water movement to keep the water oxygenated?

You can crush up flake food into powder and feed them this until you can get them fry food. Small live food is good as well eg young brine shrimp.
 
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JenC

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A sponge filter won't suck them up. Or a regular filter with a sponge prefilter on the intake. You'll want to cover the intake in the 20 gallon too when you move them over.

Cherry shrimp will really eat anything but biofilm is ideal. Plants from the mature tank (especially java moss) are good if you have some to share. You can try flake foods crushed into tiny pieces or powder with them and the CPDs.

I'd still do weekly water changes on the 5.5g. More often if needed based on its water parameters.

Have you considered keeping them in a breeder's box in the 20 gallon instead?
 
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TheFishmonger

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treadingwater said:
First, how big are the fry?
Second, you can put a piece of pantyhose over the filter to keep them out.
Third, I’d divide your existing tank and keep the bigger fish away from the smaller with a net and some magnets.
Both fish and shrimp aroud 1/2 an inch, maybe less. I can't divide the tank as I have no net, plus those little things would be swimming in an uncycled tank, with bigger predators and my barbs are a bit aggressive. So I can't say for sure they wouldn't find a way past the net. It's safer in the 5.5 gallon.
 
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86 ssinit

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Yes how small are these fry? You know cpds are very small fish and cherry shrimp are also little? Since there small fill your 5.5 with water from a our 20 and add some of the media from the 20 to the new filter and you should be good.
 
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TheFishmonger

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JenC said:
A sponge filter won't suck them up. Or a regular filter with a sponge prefilter on the intake. You'll want to cover the intake in the 20 gallon too when you move them over.

Cherry shrimp will really eat anything but biofilm is ideal. Plants from the mature tank (especially java moss) are good if you have some to share. You can try flake foods crushed into tiny pieces or powder with them and the CPDs.

I'd still do weekly water changes on the 5.5g. More often if needed based on its water parameters.

Have you considered keeping them in a breeder's box in the 20 gallon instead?
I have moss balls and no I haven't considered a breeder box. I just received my order. I a was totally unprepared for this scenario.
 
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JenC

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Cherry shrimp won't get much bigger. They stay pretty small.
 
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TheFishmonger

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86 ssinit said:
Yes how small are these fry? You know cpds are very small fish and cherry shrimp are also little? Since there small fill your 5.5 with water from a our 20 and add some of the media from the 20 to the new filter and you should be good.
Sounds good. They might be just juveniles and not fry. I am not sure, my juvenile Black Ruby Barbs are huge in comparison.

Maybe I am shocked at how small they are in comparison to approximately same age Black Ruby Barbs that I think they are fry. Okay, thank you all for the help. I will transfer the Marineland penguin biowheel 100 over to the 5.5 gallons with the two kinda established hornwort which would prevent a lot of shreading. I will feed them ground up pellets I got for the CPD and toss in my slimey moss balls that I got with the order. See where it goes from there.
 
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JenC

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I took a tape measure over to a tank to check shrimp size. Half an inch body is about right for my smaller adult cherry shrimp, maybe a bit longer.

Your barbs may eat them. I have cherry barbs, which I think are about the same size as your ruby barbs. Mine are shrimp murderers. They'll sometimes team up and rip a shrimp into pieces.
 
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86 ssinit

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Yes barbs eat shrimp!! Also those cpds may be on the menu. Best bet is the 5.5 with a sponge filter or one of those tiny deep blue hobs. The Marineland 100 will be way to much flow. For both the hornwort and the shrimp. Hornwort is great for shrimp. Just let it float.
 
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jjohnwm

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Not sure what to suggest. A divided tank seems like the best solution, although perhaps unsightly. I suspect that it would remain divided permanently, since BR Barbs can get over 2 inches in length while CPD's apparently don't surpass an inch, which makes the pairing a problematic one under any circumstances. Barbs are in general somewhat nippy, and when housed with fish less than half their length and probably less than a sixth of their body mass in a tank measuring maybe 24 inches long...I think there will be trouble.

Now, the 5 gallon should really have been set up already, to function as a quarantine tank for the new arrivals. And there really shouldn't have been any new arrivals, considering that you are already doing a fish-in cycle which you already know is incomplete. So the upshot of all this is that you are going to be doing two simultaneous fish-in cycles. Yes, you should get a sponge filter for the small tank and expect to go through the cycling process with it. Yes, those little fish and shrimp are still going to produce enough ammonia that you need to monitor it and do water changes as required. No, plants will only help with your ammonia issues, not make them worse.

If you won't divide the tank because you are worried about the CPD's "swimming in an uncycled tank"...what exactly has the divider got to do with that in this case?

When I buy fish, I am much happier to get half-inch youngsters...which are well beyond the "fry" stage...than when I have no choice other than to buy full adult-sized fish. That way they are old enough to travel and acclimate well, but I have assurance that they are young and have a long life ahead of them.
 
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TheFishmonger

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86 ssinit said:
Yes barbs eat shrimp!! Also those cpds may be on the menu. Best bet is the 5.5 with a sponge filter or one of those tiny deep blue hobs. The Marineland 100 will be way to much flow. For both the hornwort and the shrimp. Hornwort is great for shrimp. Just let it float.
Yeah I added them in the 5.5g. The ML 100 B is too powerful I know, but that's all I can do for the next week or two. Raising the water level to the brI'm decreases it's flow. I will try and look into smaller food for the CPD's because the flakes even when crushed are too big for their mouths and I think the pellets I have too.
 
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TheFishmonger

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jjohnwm said:
Not sure what to suggest. A divided tank seems like the best solution, although perhaps unsightly. I suspect that it would remain divided permanently, since BR Barbs can get over 2 inches in length while CPD's apparently don't surpass an inch, which makes the pairing a problematic one under any circumstances. Barbs are in general somewhat nippy, and when housed with fish less than half their length and probably less than a sixth of their body mass in a tank measuring maybe 24 inches long...I think there will be trouble.

Now, the 5 gallon should really have been set up already, to function as a quarantine tank for the new arrivals. And there really shouldn't have been any new arrivals, considering that you are already doing a fish-in cycle which you already know is incomplete. So the upshot of all this is that you are going to be doing two simultaneous fish-in cycles. Yes, you should get a sponge filter for the small tank and expect to go through the cycling process with it. Yes, those little fish and shrimp are still going to produce enough ammonia that you need to monitor it and do water changes as required. No, plants will only help with your ammonia issues, not make them worse.

If you won't divide the tank because you are worried about the CPD's "swimming in an uncycled tank"...what exactly has the divider got to do with that in this case?

When I buy fish, I am much happier to get half-inch youngsters...which are well beyond the "fry" stage...than when I have no choice other than to buy full adult-sized fish. That way they are old enough to travel and acclimate well, but I have assurance that they are young and have a long life ahead of them.
I wouldn't know how to divide the tank in the first place. That was an other member's suggestion I was replying to. But yes, I agree it was too early to have more fish. But, I ordered the CPD & shrimp a while back before I got the babrs. I had a leaked 5.5 gallon previously, and I guess I got too tired of waiting so I got the barbs while my order was on wait. When I saw the CPD and shrimp size I knew adding them in the tank they would become food. So I refilled the 5.5 gallons and set them up adding the Marineland 100B from the 20 gallons. I know it will be an issue having two cycling tanks, which means double the work, but I will test the water and do daily water changes with prime. I'll probably take a gallon out of the 5.5 gallons and 4 gallons off the 20 gallons and feed lightly once maybe twice a day. I feed small and the barbs at least are so gluttonous they leave no leftovers.

So I guess the 20 gallons aquarium when it finishes cycling will be a Tiger Barb/Black Ruby Barb tank.. (I know they say minimum 29 gallons for Tiger Barbs).. Or Black Ruby Barb and other busy fish, because those barbs are fast and aggressive eaters.
 
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JenC

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I recently bought and used breeder's box with good results. It's $9.03 on Amazon. Just in case you're looking for options as you move forward. Good luck!
 
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