URGENT African Dwarf Frog leg hurt

  1. Africandwarffrogowner Member Member

    [​IMG]

    One of my new frogs, Esteban, hasn't been eating and has been rather lethargic. It wasn't until tonight that I noticed his back leg is hurt. Where it's white (on the kneecap) it doesn't bend, so he can't swim. I feel so bad because he's probably in a lot of pain and I don't know what I can do if anything. Please please help.

    I also just looked at a video I took yesterday and he was swimming fine and his leg looked fine. What could've happened???
     
  2. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    Is this the same frog as your other thread?
    https://www.fishlore.com/fishforum/amphibians/230616-african-dwarf-frog-help-asap.html

    He does look terribly thin. You've only had him a few days is it possible his leg has been like that since you got him?

    I'm not sure what to recommend except maybe put him in a shallow quarantine tank. Does the white look fuzzy? Is it possible he is shedding? Let's get some others involved. marijo maggie thecat

    There are others who keep frogs as well. I'm sorry I can't recall who at the moment.

    Edit: Your last post answered my one question. So this is new.
    Are you sure it is not a shed?

    Can you post a picture of the whole tank?
     

  3. Africandwarffrogowner Member Member

    Yes it's the same frog. I got a plate, brine shrimp and a different kind of pellets but he won't eat any of it. I thought maybe it could've been from before I got him, but I have a video of him yesterday that he was at least moving that leg in. It doesn't look like shedding to me. I don't have another tank to quarantine him in ): I forgot to get one before getting them and haven't had time to buy one and nowhere is open right now.
     
  4. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    I posted a link about Quarantine tanks in your other thread.

    It doesn't have to be anything fancy. A clean (no soap) tupperware container with slits in the lid could work in a pinch.
     

  5. Africandwarffrogowner Member Member

    The white actually does look kind of fuzzy. But his whole leg can't move and he keeps tipping over onto his back, unable to turn back over. [​IMG]
     
  6. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    Looks like a safe and very cute tank. I'm stumped.
    If it's an injury there isn't much you can do for him to my knowledge.

    One question...off topic, really, so sorry about that.
    What type of heat is that that it is sticking out of the water?
     
  7. Africandwarffrogowner Member Member

    I'm pretty sure he's going to die because I can't stay up all night watching to see if he falls onto his back again and can't get up ): I'm not sure what brand the heater is, but it came with this set: http://m.petsmart.com/h5/hub?id=fis...d36-17298/cat-36-catid-300013?var_id=36-17298
     

  8. maggie thecat Well Known Member Member

    It's really hard with photos on a small screen, but it looks as if the skin on that leg is sloughing. My first thought, and the worst case scenario is he is infected with Chytrid, a fungus that is both common and deadly. The best case scenario is it's a mechanical injury, and a bacterial infection is setting in. (I know, not much better.)

    Here is some information. The first link is background, the second is how to treat all your frogs, because they can all carry it, even if they aren't sick.

    http://www.theaquariumwiki.com/Chytrid_fungus

    http://flippersnfins.yuku.com/topic/8227

    The last link isn't quite related, but it does give a timeline of symptoms so if your frog is poorly, you can guage its chances.

    https://pethelpful.com/reptiles-amphibians/Signs-That-Your-African-Dwarf-Frog-is-Dying

    If it is chytrid then you should tear down your tank, bleach everything in it, and let it sun dry while your frogs enjoy a daily treatment. I found a pyrex measuring cup with a lid useful for the dipping part, and I used two 2.5 gallon tanks, as temporary housing when I first got my frogs and was doing 'just in case' treatment.

    Good luck with this. I know it's frustrating.
     
  9. Lucy Moderator Moderator Member

    The heater is a submersible. It should be underwater. There should be a line at the top only that part can safely be out of the water.

    I hadn't even thought of Chytrid. :( maggie thecat provided some good links and information.
     
  10. maggie thecat Well Known Member Member

    When I first thought about getting frogs I did a lot of forum lurking. I read enough horror stories to be suitably impressed by the hazards of chytrid. Enough so I ran all of my new frogs through the full 21 day Lamisil bath procedure as a precaution.

    A new frog that won't eat and is showing signs of a fungal infection is one throwing up red flags. It could have been carrying spores and the stress of moving house could have been enough to throw the infection into high gear.

    I hope not, and that something else is going on, but if it were me in this situation, I'd be hitting up the drug store and then treating everyone.
     

  11. Africandwarffrogowner Member Member

    I actually don't think it's chytrid, I think it's a different fungus. Would I treat them all for a different fungus as well? And would I use something different than lamisil? Is a five gallon tank (or sterilite container as I read will work just as well and be cheaper) big enough? Sorry about all of the questions, I just want to get this right and save him if I can.

    Edit: it also seemed to happen overnight (two days ago he could use both hind legs completely fine but still wasn't eating, and yesterday morning his leg was like that). Could he have burnt himself on the heater or something that?
     
  12. maggie thecat Well Known Member Member

    I would if it look at all like that is the cause. Fungi spread by spores, and any minor compromise to their immune system, like relocation stress could set it off. From here, it doesn't look like a burn, but you are the best judge of what we're looking at.

    One thing you might try, whatever is going on, is get some plain Pedialyte and give your affected frog a dip in it. It may stimulate his appetite and give him enough wherewithal to sustain him through the illness. It's something someone suggested for chytrid afflicted frogs going through dip treatment.
     
  13. Africandwarffrogowner Member Member

    I'll treat them all and use pedialyte for Esteban (the one who isn't eating and is hurt). The only reason I thought burn was how sudden it happened, but I agree, it doesn't really look like a burn. Thanks for the help!
     
  14. maggie thecat Well Known Member Member

    Keep us posted!
     
  15. Africandwarffrogowner Member Member

    This may be a dumb question, but to "nuke" the tank once they're out, won't I have to re-cycle that whole tank before putting them back in there?? That took about a month for me... Or can I use some of that water still so I won't have to start the nitrogen cycle over?

    Edit: this is in reference to the second link you posted about treating chytrid.
     
  16. maggie thecat Well Known Member Member

    Your beneficial bacteria isn't in the water column. The bulk is in the filter media and the rest is on/in the substrate, hardscape and plants. So, yeah, unless you are running a backup filter in another tank, if you strip down and nuke a tank, your cycle is toast. But given it takes three weeks to run the frogs through the Lamasil dip treatment, you can be cycling the tank simultaneously and be done at roughly the same time the frogs are ready to go home.
     
  17. Africandwarffrogowner Member Member

    It said I had to throw away all of the substrate and plants, so that wouldn't help. So for the quarantine tank do I have to have it cycled beforehand?? Because I don't have three weeks to wait to quarantine them...
     
  18. maggie thecat Well Known Member Member

    Here is what I did when I got my frogs. I bought two 2.5 gallon tanks with mesh lids, two pieces of 3 inch PVC plumbing t pieces, and a pyrex measuring cup with a silicon lid.

    Day one, the frogs came home from the lfs, were dipped and went into one of the tanks (I had 7. One didn't survive Q. I still have six.). Day 2, the frogs were dipped and placed into tank 2. Tank 1 and everything associated with it got bleached and air dried.

    Lather. Rinse. Repeat for 21 days.

    When the treatment was finished, they went into their tank.

    Now here's where our situations differ. I have Multiple Tank Syndrome, which means I was able to pre-cycle my filter in another fish tank.

    You will need to nuke your tank, tossing the substrate and plants and bleaching and air drying everything else, then start a fishless cycle using new media, Tetra Safestart, and all that good stuff.

    If the tank isn't cycled, there's no reason you can't keep the frogs in the temporary housing doing water changes until it is.

    Not ideal, but doable.
     
  19. Africandwarffrogowner Member Member

    Okay thanks! Unfortunately, when I got home from work, Esteban's leg had gotten worse. Now instead of the knee and foot being white, all of the leg in between is white too. He was on his back when I found him, but seemed to have lots of energy once I turned him over. I have to babysit for a couple of hours, but then I'm going to set up the tank right away before heading out to the store to get pedialyte and lamisil while the temperature adjusts. I'll let you know, and I'm going to try everything I can to save him, but I'm not too optimistic for Esteban. ):
     
  20. maggie thecat Well Known Member Member

    Fingers crossed! Keep us posted on his progress.