Upgrading To 65-gal Tank From 10-gal Tank

Helaurin

Looking for suggestions on what kind and how many fish we can plan for in a 65-gallon tank. The 10-gallon tank was leaking, so we upgraded and we put as much of the 10-gallon tanks' water in the new tank, added new water, tested for chlorine/ammonia, got the temp to the high 70's, and relocated the fish from the 10-gallon tank to the new tank.

We currently have in the 65-gallon tank:
We are thinking of adding some combination of:
Angelfish
Dwarf Gourami
Cory catfish (was thinking of adding 1-2 if needed)
Serpae tetra (was thinking to add 4 more to bring it to a school of 6)

Would it be better to get 3 each of Angelfish and Dwarf Gourami for a total of 6 fish? What other fish might we consider? (My daughter wanted Angelfish and Discus, but I've read that they really shouldn't be kept together).

Thanks in advance for suggestions!
 

Terabyte

Serpae tetras are great! I have 6 in my 20 and as a matter of fact will be upgrading to 20 when I move everything over to my 65 lol. They will probably not work with the angels though because they are very nippy.
 

Helaurin

Serpae tetras are great! I have 6 in my 20 and as a matter of fact will be upgrading to 20 when I move everything over to my 65 lol. They will probably not work with the angels though because they are very nippy.

Oh - that they are nippy isn't good. I had read that if they are in a school of 6 or more, that they aren't usually as nippy, that's why we were going to increase them from 2 to 6.
 

skar

Imo ... I would do praecox rainbows x10.
Amono shrimp X's 8,
ghost shrimp X's 4
Rams X's 2,
Pygmy cories X's 7
Khulies xs 6 and a Adf.
Fully planted.
 

Terabyte

Oh - that they are nippy isn't good. I had read that if they are in a school of 6 or more, that they aren't usually as nippy, that's why we were going to increase them from 2 to 6.
Well I don't know about that but definitely increase the school to 6, that is really the minimum IMHO.
 

Taff

HI there I think that you already have a few incompatible fish. Some are out and out heat loving tropical like the betta whereas the white cloud mountain minnows at the most need sub-tropical temperatures. Without knowing the species of corys you have these could also be an issue (panda corys for example like cooler sub-tropical temperatures).

In general I would advise against dwarf gourami due to aggression issues and an awful array of health issues. There are excellent gourami species available however and in a smaller tank sparkling gourami are spectacular but in your 65 gallon tank you could go for opaline/lace or pearl types in a small group. Gourami are a great choice with the exception of dwarf and 'kisser' varieties (though I have 2 amazing kissers!).

If you are keeping the betta that more or less rules out the angels and the discus.

If it were my tank I would keep my tropical temperatures fish which is the betta and the tetras (increase numbers to at least 8). I would probably add 2 or 3 sparking gourami (just one male with one or two females). If my corys were tropical temperature compatible I would keep them and boost numbers.

I would take my cooler temperature fish back to the store and hopefully get some credit from these to add my other fish.

I would then pause for a while whilst things settle down and you can look to add more. If at this stage you really want something like angels (discus can be really finicky about their hot/soft water requirements) you could look.to rehome the betta.
 

Thunder_o_b

You want to have an even number with angel fish. If there is a pair you won't have one fish getting picked on.
 

Helaurin

HI there I think that you already have a few incompatible fish. Some are out and out heat loving tropical like the betta whereas the white cloud mountain minnows at the most need sub-tropical temperatures. Without knowing the species of corys you have these could also be an issue (panda corys for example like cooler sub-tropical temperatures).

In general I would advise against dwarf gourami due to aggression issues and an awful array of health issues. There are excellent gourami species available however and in a smaller tank sparkling gourami are spectacular but in your 65 gallon tank you could go for opaline/lace or pearl types in a small group. Gourami are a great choice with the exception of dwarf and 'kisser' varieties (though I have 2 amazing kissers!).

If you are keeping the betta that more or less rules out the angels and the discus.

If it were my tank I would keep my tropical temperatures fish which is the betta and the tetras (increase numbers to at least 8). I would probably add 2 or 3 sparking gourami (just one male with one or two females). If my corys were tropical temperature compatible I would keep them and boost numbers.

I would take my cooler temperature fish back to the store and hopefully get some credit from these to add my other fish.

I would then pause for a while whilst things settle down and you can look to add more. If at this stage you really want something like angels (discus can be really finicky about their hot/soft water requirements) you could look.to rehome the betta.

Thanks! We've had all these fish for awhile, and the stores around here don't do take-backs, unfortunately. We could potentially put either the female betta or the white clouds in a separate 2 gallon tank. The cory cats we have aren't the panda type, they are a kind of spotted cat. I'll have to take a look at the gouramis that you are mentioning and see what's available around here. There aren't any independent stores very close by, mostly its a choice of PetSmart, Petco, and PetSuppliesPlus. If I want to travel about an hour away, I can get to an independent store, but they're the ones that sold us the White Clouds go with the Serpae, Betta, etc., so I'm not so sure they know what they are doing there.

So I'm at the fish store, they don't have any lace gouramis, but they have lavender, blue, kissing, and dwarf gouramis. Thinking of getting 1 lavender gourami, thoughts?
 

UglyAsian

Honestly, I would stay with the current stocking and up the numbers. For a big tank, a 65 has a really small footprint
 

Helaurin

Went to the fish store, added a few more live plants, some driftwood, and more fish... so we're feeling pretty well stocked now.

Here's what we now have in the tank:

4 Angelfish
1 Female Betta
7 Guppies
3 Serpae Tetra
1 KhulI Loach
1 Lavender Gourami
2 White Clouds
4 Spotted Cory
1 Chinese Algae Eater
1 Mystery Snail
2 Amazon Swordplants
1 Radican Swordplant
6 Corkscrew/Contortionist Valisneria Plants
1 Watersprite plant
2 other small/short plants we've had for a few months, I forget what they are and will have to see if I can figure out what they are another day.

Based on the expected adult size of the fish, that should end up being about 75 inches of fish, assuming there's no die-off as some of the younger fish mature. We're planning on moving either the 2 white clouds or the female betta to a separate two-gallon tank, which will reduce the inches of fish to 73 inches. Based on current sizes though, we have about 48 inches of fish in the 65-gallon tank. We're hoping this is about the stocking level we can maintain.

We have a Fluval 306 canister filter, with a flow rate of 303 gallons per hours, so in theory the water gets filtered 4 1/2 times per hour. We can also add in an air bubble wand if needed as we have a Fusion #600 air pump, which supposedly can operate up to 9 air stones/ornaments, although we haven't set that up yet. We did add in two fair-sized pieces of driftwood to help keep the PH down from our naturally high alkaline levels.

We tested our water last night, and we had the fish place test the water today too, so we could confirm that our readings were in line. The fish store guy was pretty happy with what the readings came back as, and said that having started the new tank with all of the old tank's water probably helped quite a bit.

So - now we watch and wait, to see if everyone settles in, gets comfy, gets along, and stays alive.

Fingers crossed!
 

UglyAsian

Wow. That IMO is way too much. Don't add any new fish, but up the schools of fish. It will be overstocked though. I recommend getting rid of the CAE

The inch per gallon rule is VERY flawed.
 

Helaurin

We haven't found anyone who is willing to take the CAE as of yet. Is there a different estimation that you use for how to stock a tank that you prefer over the inch per gallon estimate? We're not planning on adding anyone else at this point, although my daughter was asking about putting a little bit more live plants in there.
 

UglyAsian

I don't have a way, but aqadvisor is SOMETIMES helpful. I like to over filter my tanks, so I don't worry about overstocking too much(Not that I do)
 

Taff

HI there, there really is no such think as a rule that works as fish have such a wide varieties of body volume to length ratios.

Weight would certainly be a better measure than length but even then some sizeable fish have a lower comparative load than others. We are all aware of plecos and goldfish.

Stocking levels for a mature system will always be far higher than a new system.

Some folks have very high stocking levels; I like a high stocking density but my filters could probably cope with double and I have a second specialist filter system that keeps nitrate at unreadable levels; even before water change schedules.

Careful planning prevents overcrowding at any level of the tank and the entire thing just works; even produces a few dwarf cichlids for sale every month.

I only raise this as what is certainly not overstocked for me (and thanks to disability things are set up for very little maintenance indeed) would be a disaster waiting to happen for someone with a lot less experience.

It is always a lot easier and will have a lot less emotional pain to start off with a lot less fish.


There are some fish that need to be in singles or maximum a pair but in general terms fish are more interesting in groups. I personally favour two or three groups over 12 singles of lots of species. Solitary fish tend to be a lot less harmonious. As well as living out their complex group behaviours schooling fish do not behave aggressively; a good example is the tiger barb; very peaceful in a group of 8+ but little terrors with 4 or less.

Sometimes overstocked is not the bioload but the number of different species or the number of species at a specific level such as all bottom dwelling territorial species.

As has already been mentioned you have a fish that a single one is one too many - the CAE - it really is a terrible community fish; unlike the SAE it really has nothing to recommend it. Why shops stock it is beyond me.

I enjoy the complex behaviours of fish and I like my tanks a little bit 'feisty'. However I would never allow that to result in stress which ultimately brings disease to the aquarium. This brings a vital point when ascertaining overstocking. Plant cover and solid structures; my tanks have complex 'reefs' built up of a dozen plus large pieces of bogwood and some suitable stone. There are enough places for every fish to hide at the same time and a few more left over. This is crucial as a fish with plenty of cover will not get stressed ; in my tank it is not overstocked but if I removed my plants and bogwood structures it would be massively overstocked.
 

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