Upgrading Fishy Home

Discussion in 'Freshwater Beginners' started by Furrybear, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. FurrybearNew MemberMember

    Hello all, in November of 2015 I started my first little tank of course knowing absolutely nothing about fish, I messed it all up. Thankfully the awesome people here saved me and helped me cycle my tank properly. Now I have a wonderful thriving little home for my two Endlers (the third escaped to his death.)

    So now here I am again because I've finally gotten the chance to upgrade them to a 10 gallon and I'm so excited! I did more research this time and got myself some TSS+. I've set up the tank today and put in the TSS+. It's been probably 5 hours now and have just transferred everything over from the 3 gallon to the 10. (Note that the 10 gallon has it's own filter but I've also put in the filter from the 3 gallon to help things along hoping the BB will help out the new tank.) So now that everything is transferred I put my little guys in and they were super excited. They swam all over investigating. I noticed that I may have gotten a little overzealous in giving them some current and saw they were fighting the water a bit. The new filter is on full strength as well as a curtain of bubbles and their old filter. I unplugged the bubbler which was about 80% of the current. Now things are better and they were able to swim freely unless in direct path of the new filter which they seemed to have fun in a few times. But then they just kind of stopped and laid down at the bottom of the tank. When I'd get near them with the net, they'd take off and swim around but then lay back down. There is no labored breathing and they seem completely fine otherwise, but it's the laying down that got me freaked. Is this normal for Cobra Endlers? I've had these guys for awhile now and the only time I saw them lay down is when they go to sleep, but I wasn't sure if they were sleeping, tired from fighting the current, or getting sick from the water. They were only in there for about 10 minutes before they started to lie down. I panicked and put them back in their old tank immediately and they are casually swimming around but there isn't anything in there but the water since I moved everything. Why did they lay down? Could it be to rest out of the current? Should I just put them back in and watch them very carefully? If not, how long could they stand to be in the old tank without anything except water and gravel?

    Any help would be appreciated. Thank you!

    Temp: 80F
    PH: 7.6+
    Ammonia: .50ppm
    Nitite: 0ppm
    Nitrate: 0ppm

    I forgot to add that I used a lot of what was said here. Q & A With Tetra about Tetra SafeStart
  2. DHIWZ

    DHIWZValued MemberMember

    Your tank isn't close to being cycled, even with TSS. Your fish were likely reacting to the ammonia building up in there.

    If you've chosen to cycle with TSS, I'd wait at least two weeks for the cycle to finish before adding your Endlers into the 10 again. Personally I'd rather my fish live in a smaller, clean tank than a larger, toxic tank.
  3. Mac's

    Mac'sNew MemberMember

    Hey there,

    Sorry to hear about your lose. Such a terrible loss. Not something any one ever wants in the hobby.

    What type of filter is the new one??
    I take it from what your saying the old filter is a air filter??
    Is there any way to slow the new filter down??

    Depending on the type of filtration, the current flow sounds to strong for them.
    Were the fish acclimatized to the new tank temperate prior to adding??
    I can't comment about the TSS [Something I will never ever use.]. I go for Fishless cycle when possible. Or heavily monitor a aged tank and do fish in with multiple times a day WC.
    Safer on the fish and causes less damage to them, all for the cost of a little bit of patience.

    I would bring the old filter back over and hope that there is not a big change between the tank to cause the BB to die off.
    And wait until the new tank is stable. And work on changing the flow rating to a much lower flow rate.

    While your waiting I would make sure to keep water testing up in both tanks. The tank with the fish to be sure all is staying stable. The other tank to watch the cycle progress.
  4. tokiodreamy

    tokiodreamyWell Known MemberMember

    Since you already added the TSS i wouldn't do a waterchange, however it sounds like you didn't acclimate your fish which can cause a shock to their systems. Youll need to have them in a cup or baggie floating inside the new tank for 10-20m or until the temp is the same as the new tank. Then you'll want to slowly add water from the new tank into the bag the fish are in. Depending on the size of the cup/bag, I'd do a tbsp or larger every 5ish min. If you can do the drip method it'd be even better. I keep adding water until the bag is full then i empty half of it and do it again. Then you can add the fish to your new tank.

    If you keep the fish out like someone else recommended, your new tank won't have an ammonia source to cycle. The old filter should help speed everything up. So theres no need to keep the fish out. Try to turn down the filter about half way or add a prefilter sponge to the intake. Can you attach a photo of your new tank set up?
  5. OP

    FurrybearNew MemberMember

    Thank you all for your help! I'm sorry I'm replying late, but I did get to read your replies.

    @DHIWZ and @tokiodreamy, From what I read up on TSS, it is designed for fish-in cycling. Originally I was trying to do it as a Fishless Cycle but I read what tokiodreamy mentioned, that there wouldn't be any ammonia to help along the BB. There was the recommendation of "feeding" the tank flakes to help it along, but then of course I read that was not a good to do.

    @Mac's It would seem that you are right about the flow and the acclimation. Their smaller tank is at 78F while the new one was at 80F so I think these two things were what the issue was. I was able to turn the flow way down after I finally found the correct nozzle to do so. (I was doing it wrong.)

    I acclimated them to the water placing them in a bag and then added them in. They were happy as could be and curious and playing in the bubbles. I tested the water for ammonia after 24 hours and it was a 1ppm which I read is the norm for cycling with the TSS. I will continue to test every 24 hours just to make sure it doesn't spike or get to 4.0ppm which I read is toxic while 1.0-1.5 is a stressor but won't permanently effect my guys. I hate having to have them in any ammonia, but I originally thought I could do the the Fishless Cycle with the TSS. So my fault again for not researching enough before I started. But I will be keeping a hawk-eye on them. So far they are seem very happy and healthy and in awe of all their space. They look so tiny in there, lol.

    So I do have a couple more questions now that I got the first one out of the way. Just in case the ammonia levels reach higher than 1.5ppm, I can't use Prime which is what I normally use at water changes, for 5-7 days after applying TSS. Which this may be longer because I will be dosing again in another day or two. But in case the levels rise, is the best thing to reduce the ammonia a water change? I know normally this is recommended but I don't want to leave any room for error. And if so, how much?

    Secondly, after my tank is well and cycled, I plan on keeping small fish like the Endlers, guppies, or maybe even neon tetra sized fish. How many can I keep without it being overcrowded or too much bioload? I've read some people saying 10 and someone even said 15 but I can't imagine having 15 in there. I know the rule of thumb is 1 fish per gallon but I assume this depends on the size of fish. I also would like to get maybe 2 or 3 shrimp or maybe even a mystery snail or two, but if need be I can keep the shrimp in the smaller tank.

    Thanks again, and I'll try and get a pic to post. Although my setup isn't nearly complete as I plan on using live plants instead of the plastic ones I've had so it's horrible looking right now, lol.

    Oh and the new filter is the Aqueon Quietflow Internal Power Filter model AT10. The old on is what came with the small tank. I believe it's a Testra Whisper 3i with a Tetra Whisper 10 gallon pump on it instead of the stock.
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  6. tokiodreamy

    tokiodreamyWell Known MemberMember

    You actually can use TSS to do a fishless cycle. I've done this once before. You just use janitorial liquid ammonia and an eye dropper.

    You're not supposed to do a water change because dechlorinators mess up TSS. Did you wait 24hrs before adding the TSS to start? Also did you buy TSS+ or TSS monthly? Two similar bottles but two different products.

    The 1g per fish rule is EXTREMELY outdated and is not reliable. I would post a seperate thread in the stocking section. Most people there are amazing at numbers and stocking.
  7. OP

    FurrybearNew MemberMember

    I did wait the 24 hours and I use TSS+, not the monthly. I did read about being able to add ammonia but wasn't sure I could do that with the TSS+ thanks for letting me know. I will be using that method for when I move them into a bigger tank. :)

    So what do I do in case the ammonia spikes for some reason? I'm paranoid because that's what happened my first time and it was a nightmare. Luckily I didn't lose anyone to it.

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