Updated! Bacterial Infection?

River Gray

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** Pictures added of shrimp in main tank. There have been no deaths since last power outage and all the shrimp seem healthy and eating and acting normally. I'm starting to wonder if the "sick" shrimp have a bacterial infection rather than a disease they should have died from weeks ago... I am currently debating my options for treatment in the QT tank and/or main if treatment proves useful in the QT, or if I can move the QT shrimp back to the main tank in a floating breed box and give them medicinal baths instead. That would allow me to focus on just one tanks water changes as well as give the shrimp that do not currently show signs of anything some residual medicine from the bath residue and the benefits of more frequent water changes, however I'm not sure exactly, if anything, that I should do, just that they have lived longer than they "should" have if they had something more severe as was first suspected... More info posted further down in post with ** but here again is a link to the updated macro pics of all the shrimp currently living in the main tank. Ages of blues are between 2.5-1.5mnth reds are unknown.
iCloud Photo Sharing



More pictures of other shrimp that may be sick, possibly with MN or other possible conditions even, are further down the page or added to the folder (will be noted in post if that’s the case) which should keep them ordered by date so newest, and therefore most concerning at the moment, should be the first ones when it opens....

I have three blue shrimp who although seem to be perfectly healthy seem to look like they may have muscle necrosis and have been mixed in with my other shrimp for awhile and they have colored up this way over time as they've grown. I have them sectioned off in the breed tank now but since it shares water with the tank I want to move them to my 5gal if it does seem like they are sick. You'll see that I had ALL my shrimp from that tank besides my babies in the box for these pictures. I did that because tho I only see the three blues when moving things around I found a cherry that had passed and I'm not sure what from, so if you think you see a red that might be hiding the evidence of sickness please let me know. Also if anybody would like to throw out gender identifications on any of the shrimps please let me know... I'll try to make some duplicate pictures with number graphics on them if it becomes too hard to identify which shrimp you are trying to tell me you think is sink, male, female, pregnant, saddled, soon to Berrie, etc. So thanks in advanced.
Oh also it shouldn't be an issue but if this is MN is it transferable to danios or guppies or MTSs? I will most likely be moving the fish into the large tank as their QT time we almost done anyways but if it's non communicable and the fish don't seem to pick at the shrimp because I don't know the temperament of these new guys yet and don't want the shrimps recovery slowed or the fish to eat a sick shrimp either! So that would be helpful to know as well so I can feel safe about what and whom I'm putting where and with who.
Thanks!!!!

Due to massive pain issues I couldn't get individual shots or go thru and make sure which photos really helped and which didn't so please flip thru the album and let me know especially about the three most likely candidate who's pics alone in the breeder are the last ones in the folder for people that just want to jump to that part of the question. Directly before those ones are for any of you shrimp coroners, a few photos of the passed away red I found...

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Bithimala

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The red looks like it may have been a molting issue, looking at the strip around its midsection where the split was starting? How do those 3 seem to be moving? I would probably iso them to be safe, and check water parameters. Also, what have you been feeding them?

Does look like you have a few saddled RCS in there, which means they should end up being berried before too long
 
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River Gray

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They are in their own tank now... Well with a bunch of overzealous snails I'm gonna start throwing them into local ponds or something... I really don't know how they aren't running out of resources at this point honestly. Anyways they all seem normal and are acting fine, well 2 out of 3 are. I don't know about the third as I haven't located it (dead or alive) in the new tank which annoyingly for be has dark and light blue bottom gravel mix so is perfect camouflage for them. I haven't tested the water parameters yet today because I haven't been able to get out of bed for more than a few minutes here and there yet today because I was up all night trying to keep my tanks warm and everyone alive because we once again lost power!!!! It wasn't as freezing this time but it was a struggle to keep the tanks around 75 even. So far the death toll for this day that I have been able to confirm has been 2 males (a light brownish black and a red) and 3 female shrimp (2 reds and a Blue probably all saddled...) but I haven't found as many shrimp as should have yet. The smaller juveniles are good at hiding and their blue color and the couple brown and grey looking ones (not sure who the father was so no idea what led to that coloring) are even better at it. I also lost two guppy fry .
Has anyone ever heard of battery operated tank heaters? Or some other way of keeping a tank warm when power is out? Also some way to keep some current going, O2 being added, and all the rest of the things that are necessary for good water conditions to be maintained....

I’m starting to question how long it's gonna take before this "hobby" becomes so muchore enjoyable that these types of "hiccups" (or more like death bed pneumonia) start to be far out weighed by the joy it brings.....?!?
I think thar it's just the stress (and probably the physical issues my disabilities put on me that make things even more difficult, emotional, and literally painful) of having things like two power outages and losing so many because of that on top of dealing with possibly incurable diseases or other sickness brought on by the instability or unknown quality that is the most easily gotten in the area from different lfs even because I have yet to find a good home breeder or reliable bigger operation to buy from that fits my budget and my relative newness to the hobby (technically return to it), and my SO's not so into it feelingings about all it takes and their seeming fragility (he doesn't want to keep spending money when things break or die or need to be upgradded as well learn more about new things that either weren't around or that I never investigated much at all about getting things from places other than the lfs', but back then this online commerce stuff was sort of in its infancy thus quite a bit rarer...) all combining and making it that much harder to really just enjoy them...

Example: it's taken me almost 5 hours to actually finish writing and post this thread because my physical issues have kept getting in the way and I've been falling asleep without meaning to (bodies way of sparing itself from feeling the pain I think, not to mention the night without sleep working to keep everything happy and alive only to find out that even though the power came back likely only about two to three hours after I went to sleep because I just couldn't stand to stay awake anymore) was enough time for so much of my hard work to be undone and I wake up to deaths that I had kept at bay all night and know if I'd just been able to stay awake those two more hours or so more might have been avoided (tho I know I had no way to know it was only going to be only a couple more hours) so maybe I should have pushed myself to keep going because if I had been there maybe the outcome would have been souch better...
It all just is totally messing with me deeply, especially knowing that these creatures which depend on my completely and that I chose to take the responsibility of them on, yet feel like I keep failing which in these cases seems to (or feels like it more and more) so often means the difference between life and death for them.. ugh!!!
 

Bithimala

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Aw, I'm sorry to hear about your losses and everything you're going through. Just about anything to help keep heat in will assist a bit during a power outage, covering the tank in blankets and such. There are battery powered aerators that basically you plug in and put a battery in, then they kick on if they no longer get current. That at least gets O2, though not the filter.

I'd take a look over this whenever you have a chance - good info on power outages Time to prepare for power outages

As to time for it to become relaxing, I think that really depends a lot on the world around you. Not having your SO be supportive of your hobby probably makes it more stressful, the power outages make it more stressful, etc. I know our AC went out a few years ago in summer - I'm in TX - and the apt we were in took 2 weeks to fix it. The apartment was sitting over 100 degrees, and the tanks were in the low to mid 90s even with regularly working to cool them. I lost a lot of my little ones that way.

While I completely agree with you that we want all of our pets to be happy and healthy, there are some things that are out of our control. Once you get your colonies going a bit more strongly, I have a feeling it will feel a lot better with the shrimp. Maybe just toss some Prime in the tank in case anything is off as a safety measure until you feel up to checking in more depth?

Looking at your profile, it looks like you've had the RCS going for about a year? I would think you should have a decent amount of them by now, but from the sounds of it, that hasn't happened. If you'd like to trouble shoot some of the lack of baby shrimp, I'd be happy to toss info on my experience for that as well.

Also, I missed a question earlier, in most cases, diseases are not transferable between fish and shrimp.
 
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River Gray

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Thanks for the supportive words and advice. I've got four now in the 5gal QT tank to see how they do... Not sure how long they need to be kept there before they can be called safe just oddly white colored... I mean if they have MN but are still alive a month from now are they really going to die and/or spread it?

And wouldn't you know it? Our power went out AGAIN!!! Luckily this time it wasn't as cold or as long yet even thought they were alive, except one early on fatality that may have died before the power went out, when I finally went to bed at 7am with the now 4 suspects of being sick in a different tank and the rest in good several partial changes of slightly warmer water, with Prime added it as well, than I usually add because if it's cold the heater can fix it but not the other way around and not when the power is out, as well as a couple water bottles filled with very warm water to act as heaters that they could get as close or far from as they wanted to. And the power according to the clocks blinking had come back about 9am so definitely shouldn't have had the to get cold or have huge swings... Yet they seems to be the tme frame that they all died in, tho it coulda been after the tank was back up to running but. Not sure why that would have done it...

So I have several mysteries and not a lot of decent answers... One you might know is how long might a shrimp carry a saddle before having the eggs move down to her swimmeretts? These last couple reds and the blue, tho that one is a little your for clutching so I don't mind it she doesn't berrie this time and just loses the saddle till she's or enough to get and have a real bunch...Just seem to be holding their saddles and never dropping eggs... stress could be a big factor, but if it was I thought they usually had the saddle dissipate as well?
 

Bithimala

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As to the timing, they need to molt then they release hormones, so if they're stressed, it may be a bit. Not sure if a saddle would dissipate.

As to the timing on MN, if that's what it is, my understanding is that they're supposed to die pretty quickly. Not a ton of info on here, but some good summary info of shrimp diseases. https://www.aquariumcreation.com/blogs/news/freshwater-shrimp-diseases
"Treatment: Isolate the infected shrimp immediately, as muscular necrosis can be infectious. Generous daily water changes can often abate the disease. However, if the condition has affected the entire abdomen, a cure is no longer possible and the shrimp will die within a few days."

I apologize if I missed it, but did you mention what you've been feeding them? If they think they're not going to have enough food for a batch of little ones, they'll be less likely to have babies.

I'd love it if you could send some of your cold weather down south! We're already in the 90s
 
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River Gray

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Our cold weather is pretty much gone as it is here too already, sorry!

And none of the four have yet died and at least one or two have me molted, both in the QT and the ones left in the main tank.

I’m a little uneasy about the white spot on this shrimps head... it wasn’t close enough to the glass for me to get some shots with my new macro lens, and I didn’t want to stress them out... again... in order to get better pics but if they are needed let me know...

A27C38FF-1AB9-4C95-A57C-923AB5A443D0.jpeg 695F827C-F758-4A4F-A8D3-FE98CC039518.jpeg 8E14CC94-BB96-42BF-8909-477880E01087.jpeg BCF889E7-D46B-4221-A790-D2FAFCA9210A.jpeg
 

Bithimala

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MN typically starts from the tail, so I don't think the spot on the head would be a concern along those lines.
 
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River Gray

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MN typically starts from the tail, so I don't think the spot on the head would be a concern along those lines.
I didn’t think that it was MN in that shrimp but wasn’t sure if it might be something else and the thread’s title seemed like it could still be used for whatever, if anything, that this shrimp might have. Tho I should have, and will, edit the top post to indicate new pics of possible other issue down further in the thread.

Fixed and changed the title so it’s not as dramatic sounding...

I’m still surprised that the possible MN sufferers all seem to be alive and doing ok so far... If they really have MN shouldn’t they have died by now?is there a different explanation for why they look the way they do?
 
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River Gray

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I have a folder of pictures of my current shrimp tanks denziens... There's a couple more shrimp that I put in QT when I was first concerned about having a deadly contagious disease in the tank, yet none have died and since then I've found a couple more in the main tank that have the same look, though I can't know if I just missed it before or they developed the coloring later because it is contagious or just something that they are genetically disposed to grow into at different points.
Had something else written and it all went poof somehow. So these are the recent shots of the current tank denziens. I haven't taken more of the ones in the QT but they seem just as lively and normal as always. Lately I've seen pics of some shrimp that are called "blue blodied" and it's awfully similar... Opinions? (I will scale down the folder a bit but might take me a minute to get to that so for now sorry there's more than is necessary and some fuzzy useless ones as well...)

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River Gray

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**
I'm going to take some pics of the shrimp I have in QT and try to treat them with some baths and treat the whole tank with low dose antibiotics and more aggressive water changes if they still look sick. Depending on how that goes I might treat the main tank with a very low dose of meds and wcs because of the one shrimp that may look sick and sometimes another smaller one looks like it might be a bit whitish as well but I can't tell if it's muscle related or if it's exoskeleton... Or if I'm just seeing trouble where there isn't any yet...
I'll post the QT shrimps pictures after but in case it's someone new in the thread now the link to the current batch of shrimp in the main tank is here:
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River Gray

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Ok so OMG eggs? How is a "supposed to be dead by now" shrimp saddled to this degree that she should berry anyway now by the way things look?!
F749FE4E-5BF1-4D15-BC37-B9F2F69DB6F5.jpeg
 
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