Update on my Ich situation

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by annewaldron, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. annewaldronValued MemberMember

    30 gallon planted
    Espei rasboras
    Flame tetras
    Furcata rainbowfish
    Amano shrimp
    Nerite snails

    I'm 11 days in with raised temps, 3rd day of temp over 86 (right now it's 87.5)- I have a 2nd heater in there trying to keep the temp above 86. Airstone on 24/7

    Three days ago there were more significantly sized salt specks on most of the tetras (in the first few days there were specks on the rainbowfish & rasboras, but they're all clear- the tetras seem to be taking the brunt of this right now). As of today the specks seem to be smaller and on fewer fish, but 3 of the tetras have a few foggy patches on their bodies, one has a bump on its side (it has 3 or so foggy patches in addition to the bump) and one of them is hiding and didn't come up for dinner. Now, if I wasn't looking closely, I might not even notice these patches, but they're there. Except for the one hiding, all are acting energetic and hungry. No flashing. I'm doing garlic-soaked brine shrimp every other day and regular flakes/pellets in between.

    So, what to do? Time for meds? Or keep up with the heat for a few more days?

    If it comes to the point that I need to start meds, which would be the best for my tank? Do I need to QT the snails or shrimp or otos? (How the heck do I catch the shrimp?)

    Any advice would be most appreciated
  2. AlyeskaGirlFishlore VIPMember

    I would QT the fish with the secondary infections personally.

    Can you get pics of the Tetras with the patches on them?

    I tried treating with the high temps for ICH one time and some fish ended up with bad bacterial infections. Lost several fish. I ended up QT'ing the bacterial infected and treating with Maracyn 1 & 2 with CopperSafe for ICH. Temp was 75F.

  3. annewaldronValued MemberMember

    Now that I'm looking at these tetras, they really aren't looking that great, all around. Probably four of them don't have their normal brilliant color.


    So if I do the quarantine tank, then I'll have to take out the second heater from the main tank to use for the quarantine tank, which will keep the main tank at only about 85°. Is this going to affect whatever ground I have gained with the Ich in the main tank?

    I have Maracyn 1 and 2 on hand, but I don't have copper safe. Should I start with the Maracyn 1 and 2 and start the copper safe tomorrow?

    The Maracyn 1 and 2 will wreck what little bacterial balance there is in the quarantine tank, correct? So how do I handle that?

  4. annewaldronValued MemberMember

    Update: I actually don't have Maracyn 1 on hand, just Maracyn 2.

    Start with that and reduce the temp in the QT tank slowly?

  5. catsma_97504Fishlore LegendMember

    Sorry to hear your fish are struggling with secondary disease. That complicates how to treat ICH.

    How many days in total has the heat been elevated?

    You can either remove the worst or leave them in the main tank and simply treat the whole tank. That is a tough call, especially if you are unable to continue the heat treatment.

    If you decide to use meds, please lower the water temps first. Combining meds with heat simply does not end all that well.
  6. matsungitWell Known MemberMember

    Isn't CopperSafe dangerous to plants, snails and invertebrates?

    Maybe salt treatment is better. You need to raise salinity to 1.002 specific gravity.
    I know freshwater fish will do well if acclimated properly (.001sg/day or two) but I'm not too sure with the plants you may have. I have 1.0025sg using marine salt and have mixed FW and brackish species. I have acquired fish with ich and it actually disappear in days. Assuming you don't use aquarium salt, the calculator below will be close to accurate.

    Direct Salt Addition Calculator: (using marine salt mix. premix and dissolve separately in a gallon of tank water)

    Watch out for a mini cycle and monitor ammonia and nitrite after changing salinity.
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  7. JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    Those are not ich spots - I agree, I would separate the fish with secondary issues, and maintain the heat treatment for the rest. Both heaters stay in the main tank and treat the secondary issue for the ones you remove. After that's been taken care of, do another 2 week heat treatment on them.
  8. annewaldronValued MemberMember

    Ok, I had to pull the heater into the QT because the temp came down to 71 overnight (eek!), so the main tank temp will probably come down to 85-ish. I can pick up an additional heater at lunch when I pick up the other meds. Will this short period at a lower temp be bad?

    Before the other replies came in, I had put the Maracyn 2 into 83 degree QT water, but it looks like it didn't kill anybody overnight.

    So I'm going to pick up Coppersafe and Maracyn 1 today.

    I'd elevated the temp to 84 for the first few days (old treatment info I had) then raised the temp to 85.5 (couldn't get the heater to go any higher) for about 5 days, and have had it at 87.5 for 3 days - so 11 days total, but only about 8 days at 85 or higher.

    I pulled all of the Tetras into the QT. Everybody else in the main tank looks perfect (although I did notice another tiny salt grain on one of the rainbowfish last night.)

    If I consider salt, what do I do about temp in the main tank? And will it affect the snails, shrimp, or otos?
  9. AlyeskaGirlFishlore VIPMember

    That's why it's only to be used in the QT tank with the Tetras.
  10. catsma_97504Fishlore LegendMember

    Once you can get the temps back over 86f start the heat treatment again. Count as day 1.

    In the QT follow instructions on dosage and keep the temps in the low 70s to slow down the bacteria. Once done, I would raise the temps in the QT and begin heat treatment in this tank. But make sure all traces of med are gone first.

    Best of luck!
  11. annewaldronValued MemberMember

    Ugh- what now?

    I came home to find one of the rasboras in the main tank swimming erratically- as if it lost its balance and couldn't tell up from down (swim bladder-related possibly?)

    Could this have anything to do with the water temp?

    No other outward sign of disease in this fish. Only one of the fish in the main tank has an Ich spot, all others look just fine.

    Temp in main tank is holding steady at 86.7, temp in QT is at 76- I'm trying to adjust it down to 74.

    I added dose #2 of Maracyn 2 and 1.5 tsp of Coppersafe to the QT. I'm holding off on the Maracyn 1 because I know this is the one that can mess up the cycle in the QT. Should I hold off on the Maracyn 1 and see if Maracyn 2 helps first?
  12. JayseeFishlore LegendMember

    I think you've got more problems than ich, I'm sorry to say.
  13. matsungitWell Known MemberMember

    I have ramshorn snails, pond snails, and ghost shimp. I think all your fish will do fine with low brackish salinity. I can't say much about the plants though since I don't have any except marimos.

    UV could help along with whatever else you're doing.
  14. catsma_97504Fishlore LegendMember

    I agree with Jaysee in that you are dealing with multiple issues. As there appears to be a bacterial infection along with the ich parasites, it may be best to stop the heat treatment and begin dosing antibacterial and antiparasitic treatments in the main tank.

    If you'd like to keep up with the heat treatment, soak all foods in fresh garlic water. Garlic has many properties that provide health benefits, both antibacterial and antiparasitic. I would write off the cycle and treat the disease before your fish become too weak to fight off the multiple diseases.

    Another possibility that may help is to use a hydrogen peroxide bath. The peroxide is very good at killing off disease. Add 2 ml per gallon tank water in a bucket (will destroy the cycle), with heat and an airstone. Leave most affected fish in this bath for a couple of hours so long as they are not overly stressed. Then, transfer back into the tank.

    It is very difficult to treat multiple issues at once. One disease can weaken the fish enough that the secondary infections can become deadly.

    Keep us updated on your progress.
  15. annewaldronValued MemberMember

    Well with regard to the main tank, everybody looks just fine. The fish that was disoriented didn't last long. Absolutely no signs of disease on that fish- no Ich, no fuzzy patches, nothing. So I hesitate to do anything different in there right now.

    The tetras seem to be doing good, too, with just the Maracyn 2 and Coppersafe. They're eating well and moving around. I feel like I should leave well enough alone right now. I'll add garlic to all their food from now on.

    Maybe just wait a day and see what's going on.

    One question: how long should I leave the temp at 74 in the QT?

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