Update! More Fish Wasting Away...parasites? Help

Discussion in 'Freshwater Fish Disease' started by fish4us, Apr 11, 2018.

  1. fish4usNew MemberMember

    Here's the situation, I'll try to keep brief as I can. I had four glofish danios. About a couple weeks ago, Red got sick. He started hiding, not eating, got very very skinny and pale. I couldn't see any other physical symptoms. The fish store guy said it was probably internal stomach parasites. I treated the whole 20 G tank with API general cure, but I was too late. Poor thing died during the course of the treatment. I continued the whole course of treatment as package directed (two doses/48 hours apart, removed carbon, etc) for the benefit of the 3 remaining fish. About 3 days later, I did notice white poo (not stringy) for the first time ever coming from Blue fish. I never see these fish poo, but it did concern me. A few days later, Purple fish starts acting odd. Same symptoms, staying in place, not eating, getting skinny, pale. I added another dose of general cure, and this time I also tried the technique of adding the med to the fish food along with some garlic, in hopes it will get to any internal parasites. But Purple fish is not showing interest in food. Blue is eating and swimming but looking a bit skinny and pale as well. I really want to save these fish. I have looked at them all closely with magnifying glass as best I can to try and find any other clue as to what they have. No spots, no red streaks, no fin rot, no flashing or scratching, no cotton or fungus I can see, no gulping or rapid gills. Only thing I do see is slightly red gills on all 3 fish, and the gill area seems a bit rough compared to the other smooth sides of fish, but I'm not sure what is normal for the gill area? Maybe I didn't do enough general cure treatment, how many courses of this stuff can I do and still be safe? Is the fish doomed if it won't eat and it is internal parasites? Should I try something else? I don't want to dump antibiotics on top of everything unless I am sure what I am dealing with. Any other suggestions? Should I try a bath with salts or a more natural treatment? I am so confused and stumped by all the meds/treatment options out there and without any more symptoms to go on I feel like this could be anything!
    My ammonia is 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0-5, PH 7.6. Ammonia has been at 0 since day one of adding these fish to the 20G after it was fully cycled a few months ago. They are the only fish in the tank. So I don't think it could be ammonia poisoning. API liquid master test kit being used. Several live plants. Aqueon water conditioner, at least 25 percent water changes at least 1x week. Advice appreciated!!
     
  2. Fashooga

    FashoogaFishlore VIPMember

    I think your treatment is fine. You need to continue to treat these fish. I believe you need to do three treatments, which is minimum. So this will take a week and a half to do.

    Based on my experience if you catch it early it's easy but if you catch it late you'll likely lose the fish that your trying to save. Some are so far along that it's just a matter of time before they're done.

    When my JD had internal parasites I treated him in a QT. Treating a 90g tank for one fish is a lot of APIGC meds to go through! I was lucky that it was so slow that it was easy to catch. I treated and I saw white poo that was on the floor of the tank. Continued to treat him for about 2.5 weeks until I released him back home to the 90g.

    Your doing fine, and deaths will happen. It's unfortunately part of the hobby.
     
  3. bitseriously

    bitseriouslyWell Known MemberMember

    Should also note, API GC has 2 actives: metronidazole (antibiotic) and praziquantel (anti-parasite). So you're already treating for the (anaerobic) bacteria that could most likely be implicated in this scenario.
    Crossing fingers for you!
     




  4. OP
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    fish4usNew MemberMember

    Thank you for the advice and support! I am going to continue to treat them. Since it appears likely that more than one is affected by this, I chose to treat the whole tank. I had a feeling that I didn't do enough of the meds the first time around, and especially if its internal, it would be harder for the medicine to work.
     
  5. OP
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    fish4usNew MemberMember

    Thank you, I didn't know that about GC. Is there any chance this medicine will work internally if the fish refuses to eat? Will just being in the water with it be enough? Not too hopeful about the Purple fish but he's hanging on so maybe there is a chance. This aquarium was set up for my kids to enjoy, so even though I prepared them for the worst, it's still sad to lose fish.
     




  6. bitseriously

    bitseriouslyWell Known MemberMember

    Re working internally, thats how it’s supposed to work. :)
    Maybe not as effective as injection (ie needle) or oral, but as you say, we can’t always be sure our fish will eat, so the rate on the label is supposed to deliver the minimum effective dose into the fish’s tissues via absorption through skin and gills.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  7. OP
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    fish4usNew MemberMember

    Thanks, I will continue to hope for the best. I sure wish this Purple fish would eat something. On a positive note, I saw it swim to the opposite side of tank, so still getting around and hanging in there. Time for another dose of general cure tonight.
     
  8. OP
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    fish4usNew MemberMember

    Time for an update and also looking for more expert advice. More fish are dying. The purple fish I was trying to save with this post died. I did the treatments with the general cure for about a week or so. Shortly after, the blue danio came down with it as well and eventually died. It's taking about 10-14 days for the fish to succumb and usually strikes one at time. Before its demise, I added a few more danio fish because it was clear the two remaining were harrassing each other from not having a proper school. After the death of the blue fish, I felt maybe the general cure was the wrong med, or I was treating the wrong disease. Or perhaps I've just been starting to late/stopping too early with the medicine. For a few weeks, the new fish seemed happy and healthy. But now the same thing is happening with two of them. I have spent a ridiculous amount of time reading articles on fish disease on forums and websites to try and diagnose this. I've read all about Fish TB and certainly it has crossed my mind that could be it- but something tells me it isn't. One of the reasons is that in cases I've read about TB, the fish still eats at first but wastes away anyway, or eventually gets sores or bent spine or some other sign. And it can affect them for a long time. Not so with my fish. After observing them so carefully, one of the first symptoms is that they stop eating. It almost seems as if at first they want to eat, but something is irritating to their mouths and they just swim away from the food. Then they don't even try to eat anymore. This happens right off the bat. Then, they just slowly lose energy and basically starve. Still able to swim properly if chased, but basically they isolate to one spot and hover there, not interacting and not eating. I have noticed two fish expel white (solid, not stringy) poo. I read that "skinny disease" can be caused by certain protozoan parasites, and that they can infect and irritate the mouth and throat. Sometimes (not too often) I have observed my fish open their mouth wide as if to stretch it and I do see a clear membrane thing inside. Since they are tiny fish, I can't tell if it's a normal part of anatomy or sign of fungus inside. Other times it looks like they "chew" for a minute on nothing. Seems like irritation to me, not gulping. The sick fish do not have rapid gill movement at all. I don't see any outward sign of fungus on mouth or face (and I've looked with magnifying glass closely). Now, the box of API general cure says it cures wasting disease, but is it possible this is a different protozoa/parasite that needs a different cure? I did read online that someone had success treating with flubendazole. I really need some experts to give advice here. I don't want to bomb my tank with every expensive med, nor jump to the conclusion its TB and euthanize all. The danios are active fish and I constantly see them pecking at stuff on the gravel and algae on plants. I feel like this is where they might be ingesting whatever crud is causing this in my tank. I do try to keep it clean but the gravel is natural color and I can't always see every spec of food. Another thing is, I have noticed if a piece of food does lay on bottom it will get a white mold on it - of course I remove it if noticed. Anyone who is experienced with either wasting disease/TB/using flubendazole (or where I can get it!!) or similar symptoms please chime in. I am not even sure at this point if I should treat the whole tank, move two to a hospital tank while I "try" something on them or what. I feel almost crazy using these expensive meds on them but until I figure out what this is, I don't feel like I can add any more fish to this scenario even if I risk the stress factor of their small number. I have 5 total now, so tank is understocked.
    My current water parameters are : ammonia 0,nitrite 0, nitrate 10, PH 7.8. I have yet to detect any ammonia spikes since the tank was started, thankfully. I'll be happy to answer any questions that may help diagnose. Thank you in advance!!
     
  9. bitseriously

    bitseriouslyWell Known MemberMember

    You’ve done a great job of providing a lot of detail. And you’ve deacribed in almost perfect detail how I’ve lost some of my rummynose tetras in the past. I also medicated (Kanaplex and prazipro) but I can’t say if it was effective or not. I will say it didn’t wipe the school out, just thinned it.
    Whenever I’ve seen white fuzz on leftover pellets it seems I’m overfeeding and running into health problems.
    Beyond that, sorry I can’t help more. :(
     
  10. Jenoli42

    Jenoli42Well Known MemberMember

    I agree the amount of research and detail you've provided is very impressive... and i'm so sorry you're losing fish :(

    this guy is an actual fish vet, but he's going to show you stuff that you probably can't get your hands on in terms of diagnosis. here is a video that may help. i'm sorry if not but check out his channel...

     
  11. OP
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    fish4usNew MemberMember

    Hi, thank you for sharing. I watched several of the videos from the fish doctor and they were very interesting. Hopefully someone can shed some light on this from experience - I just don't want to keep trying the wrong meds.
     
  12. OP
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    fish4usNew MemberMember

    I decided to go ahead and try treating again with General Cure. The fish are still hanging in there, not showing improvement yet not worse either. Maybe I have got a chance if I started early enough this time. I'm hoping someone may read this and have more advice if they can bear to read my long detailed posts. :(
     
  13. toeknee

    toekneeWell Known MemberMember

    I had the same problem, fish wasting, white stringy poo. not a single other symtpoms. I treated with general cure, paraguard, prazipro, kanaplex, furan-2.....the works and nothing changed. Until I read up on the camallanus worm, which is resistant/immune to every single parasite medication BESIDES Levamisole. Perhaps you also have Camallanus worms like I did. If no other treatments are working give Levamisole a shot. It's literally the only thing that will kill this parasite.
     
  14. OP
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    fish4usNew MemberMember

    Hi, thanks. Yes, I have read about Levamisole and also Flubendazole but they are not sold in any stores. Where did you get the Levamisole?
     
  15. Brannor

    BrannorValued MemberMember

    Hi there. I've found that Levamisole exists in de-wormers for poultry/pigs. Bizarre.

     

    And I only looked this up due to your post, and me losing guppies consistently for the last few months. I might actually try get hold of some... am very tired of the wasting away.

    -G
     
  16. OP
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    fish4usNew MemberMember

    Thank you for sharing the link @Brannor . I am sorry to hear about your guppies. I lost another fish today. I am still treating the tank with API general cure (I have done 3 rounds) One fish is looking a bit better. If I thought for sure that it was camallanus I would splurge for the levamisole. Sometimes I feel like its just another shot in the dark though. Could you please let me know how your guppies do if you try it? Thanks and best of luck to you. I'll continue to try and diagnose this mysterious illness.
     
  17. Brannor

    BrannorValued MemberMember

    Ok, the meds arrived tonight. I was a bit hesitant to dose... till I looked up Camallanus Worms and saw this.
     

    I was utterly frustrated with the guppies dying (have lost 4 1-month old fry since the last female adult died) and when the last female adult died (still 2 alive) I decided to perform an autopsy. And there inside, were some little red worms. Bingo.

    Tonight. I dose. I'll start with one tank and see how it goes.

    As my tank is a 55G, I believe my dosage is roughly 7ml per 40L. (1.4ml per 10L)

    -G
     
  18. OP
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    fish4usNew MemberMember

    It sounds like you found the cause of the wasting and I hope you have success with the Levamisole. Please let me know how it goes. I'm curious to know if you'll see signs of the worms leaving the fish immediately? After I lost the last fish, I too was so frustrated that I tried an autopsy to look for worms as well. I didn't find anything, but for some reason I thought I'd be looking for white worms not red ones. Of course, I'm no fish doctor so I may have been poking around the wrong places. I'm about to do my last dose of general cure before giving up on that medicine. I now have two fish not eating. If I lose another one, I may have to try another autopsy but I don't know if I can bear it. Were the worms pretty easy to find?
     
  19. Brannor

    BrannorValued MemberMember

    Yes. These ones were just under 1cm each (2 of them) and were located in the lower gut, near the anus of the fish. They are quite thin.

    I've had bad luck and one my yellow RCS shrimp moulted during the night that I treated, and I'm not sure he's going to make it as the Lev would have had a good go at him. Some fish are almost appearing dead (have read they go really lethargic sometimes) while others are really active (happy that the stuff is out?).

    I'll be doing a full vac and 60% WC tomorrow and retreat in a few days - maybe slightly stronger dose as I read it should potentially kill pest snails... not really noticing that.

    -G
     




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