Update: Betta's Tail Rot

UPDATE:

There's definitely a second piece missing of the pectoral fin. Smaller than the other and not sure it hasn't been there awhile already. Those fins move so fast and are so large I've found myself looking at it a lot over the last week wondering if there was a second chunk missing. Finally I caught him idling and noticed there was. Don't see any infection on it, but am keeping an eye just in case. If it comes back, I'm going back to the baths. Those seemed to do the most good, stressful though they were. Right now doing 50% WCs every other day. More if I need to but trying not to stress him out with too many, just enough to keep parameters perfect. Even nitrates are negative.

That said, he ate bloodworms today! This is the first time he's ever taken bloodworms, being such a picky eater!

I love this little fish. I can't tell you all how much I look forward to the day I can post a photo of his beautiful fins all healed up.

EDIT: I do want to touch on some new growth. The shorter ventral fin (was not affected by the fin rot) appears to be growing the whitish blue tips to match the other side. The chunk missing on the analfin (also not affected by growth) also appears to be filling out, there is a ray and some member growing from the middle down. The white tips on the dorsal fin are no longer white, they are a beautiful indigo color and longer. This was all damage present when I got him. The clean tear in his caudal fin is sealing up. I'm convinced it was an unhappy coincidence, not rot, possibly occurred because the fins were weaker. The caudal fin which was most damaged by the rot is healing, albeit slowly. One area is completely healed pretty much, though the rays grew in slightly crooked. There is new growth at the bottom end of the rotted area as well. The rotted areas toward the center of the fin don't have much new growth but don't really appear infected anymore either. No new growth on the pectoral, sadly, I think this will take awhile. The rot attacked areas that were damaged when I brought him home almost exclusively, which makes me realize just how damaged he was. It makes me so angry. Another member here posted an LFS with a filtered, heated "betta barrack", I am thinking of showing this to my LFS. I was kind of appalled to see that they hadn't come up with a better solution. So, that's the damage report. Hopefully we will have no recurrence.

 

that's all I have to say

Any updates today?

 

Well, no progression, that's a good sign. And his water parameters are stable. He's behaving normally and I believe I'm seeing more new growth on the tail fin, that one split is sealing up nicely so far. I could still swear that one ray looks a little discolored, and there's no healing on the pectoral yet. So we're still kind of in limbo. It's been 48 hours since his last WC, I'm thinking I'll do a small one today anyway, just to keep him getting fresh water in the tank, but not big enough to potentially cause any small swings in parameters.

He accidentally nipped his dorsal fin when trying to make a sharp turn to grab some daphnia haha. I don't see any injury but I'm sure he did a little damage, so watching that.

I don't intend to relax till he is 100% healed haha. We were 99.99% healed last time, and then, BAM. Fin rot like WHAT. If it comes back like it did that time, there will be a small area that suddenly looks a little raw. When that happened this time, I held out, didn't medicate. And I should have, because it obviously got much worse. So I won't hold out again if that happens, but as long as he stays as he is now or better, I'm just watching with bated breath!

 

good, great actually,

 

We are getting there haha. Each day that passes without the meds I get more nervous though. But I am holding out hope. I just did hus WC. He insists on swimming into the water I am adding and no matter how gently I do it he still gets knocked around. Anyway did the change then gave him a treat and he is a happy dude. I had no idea this thread would be so long haha m



Still healing today, no progression.

However, he's definitely a little bloated from returning to the pellets. I noticed it this morning but thought it was cause he had just eaten. But now I'm home from work and it's still big. It isn't slowing him down at all but he won't accept peas and the daphnia doesn't seem to work as well so I am fasting. But he is BEGGING me for food. Making the biting gesture at me, racing from top to bottom of the tank, searching the bottom. It's breaking my heart.

Someone remind me that fasting is a GOOD thing because I feel super guilty about it haha.

I have a feeling these are not the last of the health issues I am going to see in him. But he's mine and he's such a fighter. So...so be it. As long as he is still willing to fight, I'll fight for him. I just have a feeling, looking at the signs, he may be immunocompromised and just generally not the healthiest fish. Pet stores can be so cruel.

 

poeticinjustices FASTING IS GOOD.. just a reminder... lol

any updates? is the bloating better?

 

Sort of. I fasted, fed peas the next day, it cleared. Then, as soon as I started feeding him again, he stopped pooping. I don't know if maybe I started him back up on food too early so we're trying it again.

The weird thing is...he's voracious. He's bloated but all he wants it to eat more.

 

PI, how many pellets are you feeding him per feeding ?

 

PI, how many pellets are you feeding him per feeding ?

None. I am done with pellets. I tried the crumble food this time. And very little. I took the very tip of a knife, scooped up a tiny bit, mixed in vitachem and dropped in.

But the whole weird part about this is that the never stops trying to eat. He scavenges all day for food on the bottom.

I am thinking he either wasn't completely cleared. He did still have a slight tummy but it looked normal. The other consideration is could his system be messed up from when I was medicating?

I am fasting again, then peas and daphnia, then repashy only just to see if that works like it did before. I swear I do not overfeed haha. It was 1-2 NLS pellets twice a day except when replaced with something else.

 

Have you looked at the pellets from kensfish? Ive never had bloating issues with jenks on them.

 

That's the next step.

 

Have you looked at the pellets from kensfish? Ive never had bloating issues with jenks on them.

This was going to be my suggestion

I only feed my bettas 5 of these small pellets a day,


3 in the morning and 2 at night along with a bloodworm snack during the evening feeding. I tried getting my bettas to eat three different types of readily available pellets, and the pellets were either refused or spit back out. As soon as I dropped some of the small 1mm kens betta pellets, they went after them with out issue since it is what they were used to eating.

 

Okay, I give, I'm ordering it haha.

I came home today, however, and I noticed a very dense, kind of dark waste at the bottom. It was small but very tightly packed at his belly looking better. This is the first time he's gone without the help of peas since I took him off of the medicated food. So I gave him a very tiny, tiny bit of Repashy. And, yes, I'm going to try from Kensfish. I just keep hearing too much talk about it not to

 

Get the smallest packet. Its still like 1/2 a lb but that's enough to feed them for a very long time lol.

 

Get the smallest packet. Its still like 1/2 a lb but that's enough to feed them for a very long time lol.

Yeah...I'd say so haha. I have been on poop patrol for days now, fasting, peas, start again. He was bloated before I started the medicated food too. The only thing was I didn't really notice because his pectoral fins are so large they block my view except from above, and he tends to bloat less side to side and more by his belly hanging downward, so I couldn't tell. A couple days after I started the medicated repashy, I was returning him from a methylene blue bath and I noticed a HUGE poop dangling after him. Must've been the bath got him worked up haha. But the point is, it resolved and I never had these issues the entire treatment while he was eating only the medicated repashy. So I think I am going to feed him non-medicated Repashy, but very light meals, and give him the chance to resolve. Maybe I'm doing too much, you know? In the mean time, I am ordering this food.

UPDATE -

I just wanted to post some healing photos of where V is at. Lots of new growth on the tail, even the spot we thought was damaged as a juvI and would never heal is closing slowly. And the split in his analfin which was never actually rotting is almost fully grown in! The pectoral is not healing yet but no worse either.

I am doing 30-50% WC every other day to keep his water clean as I believe the tank is no longer cycled. This plus poop scooping and filter swishing and extra Prime on occasion keeps his water ammonia free as he heals. Once he can tolerate 14 days without a WC, I will recycle his tank.

The constipation is better. I am getting about one poop at night out of him that I can see and he doesn't really look too bloated except right after eating.

We have a long way to go but it is nice to see him healing!

 

breathless!!

I want to cry!!!

better not, my cousins are here :')

wow!!! he is so pretty, I'm tear eyed.

LUCKY!!

 

Haha thanks. I do consider myself lucky that he found me. He is really something special. I mean I love his fins but he just has this amazing huge personality. I would say that he is about 50% healed from the total damage. This photo is from the first 2 hours when the fin rot occurred. All that damage in 2 hours. I would say the damage maybe doubled from there and got that bloody color which you can see in the photo a little. So we have come quite a long way. I look at this photo and I shutter. This is the first time I have seen it since the infection cleared. And that's just the initial outbreak, it got worse until until I started the baths. I cannot even believe how much he has healed I didn't even realize till I attached it!

 

You are so good,

please help me keep this person from killing there fish, I need back up. check out my latest thread.

:''''(

 

Wonderful to see how much better he looks. I say *looks* because his attitude has always be upbeat!

 

Wonderful to see how much better he looks. I say *looks* because his attitude has always be upbeat!

Yes, it has! More so than mine, that's for sure. The first night the outbreak occurred and did all the damage you see in the photo over 2 hours, he looked rough. He wouldn't come off the bottom and was hiding. I was afraid I would not be able to stop it and would lose him to body rot. I did a WC and started dosing with Paraguard, rushed the Kana/Meth Blue and prayed...hard. By morning, he was behaving like this hold stuff (EDIT: I meant to say "old self" but the typo was so ridiculous I felt the need to leave it there haha...I had a major intoxicated client crisis at work today and am just fried). It was another week and half of progressing every 48 hours on the dot then, FINALLY, the kana/meth blue arrived and I was able to treat aggressively. The Paraguard barely kept it at bay. Ha you know looking at those photos - I didn't even realize how much his color has brightened. I look at his old photos from when I first got him and he is 2 colors - lavendar and white, nothing else. Now there's 4 separate colors and varying shades of each and finally his head is turning crimson. It's quite a transformation!

 

This is in no way advise, just an observation. While you, and a site, certainly hope for his recovering full and beautiful finnage, that, I think, would be more icing than cake..
However beautiful that might be, I will always think that that beauty of the whole thing lies not so much in his finage, but in his determination to live and your determination to get him there. Very well done, most sincerely, rick

 

Thank you, ricmcc, your words mean a lot and could not be more true.

Since returning to fish keeping legitimately, this is my first time treating a fish with a disease. Even as a child, when my fishkeeping was horrifically ignorant, they never really got sick. They just didn't always live very long. I recall one time having to treat ich with Quick Cure, and successfully, but, beyond that, they somehow made it. Despite over-crowding goldfish tanks with common goldfish and failing to heat the betta tank, most of them made it. Tomato (my red VT) lived about 3 years, even after jumping. I had a carnival common that lived about 6 years and grew to about 7", which is not anywhere near what he could have been, but King Tut did pretty well for himself despite the circumstances! But this is my first real endeavor into treating a sick fish.

It was his determination that fueled mine, truly. When I was still waiting for the kana/meth blue and only treating with Paraguard, the fin rot would progress every 48 hours on the minute. And each time, I was more worried that I was only prolonging the inevitable. Especially when the infected rays developed the red tips and bloody brown discoloration. I've never actually seen fin rot look like that and my reading kept leading me back to that being a very severe, rapidly progressing rot. But to see him so energetic and seemingly only minimally perturbed, well, you just can't give up on a fish who hasn't given up on himself, right? He's certainly earned the title of "fighting fish", but not for the traditional reasons.

I'm so desperately awaiting the day I can put up a photo of his fins, 100% healed.

 

Anything today?

 

Anything today?

Nothing new, just continued healing Actually, he gave me quite a scare. This morning he had a single scale on him that turned white. Didn't appear raised but was hard to tell, but extremely noticeable and exactly in the shape of one scale. After everything, I don't have the energy to freak out anymore so I went to get something to scoop him up in so I could get a good look and to get my phone for a video of it. When I came back 20 minutes later, it was gone. This seems to happen a lot in my tanks, every few weeks there are mysterious vanishing white spots, and I am beginning to think I hallucinate them haha. I laugh but I'm serious and it's a really scary thought.

There is one fin-related thing. Twice now I've noticed a pattern on his dorsal. The rays kind of split apart as if they've been pulled or peeled. Then all new membrane rapidly fills the space between, making his dorsal fin larger. The whole process only takes a couple days for each split. It's really odd. Has anyone heard of this kind of growth for betta fins? I think I might need to post on it. It's never jagged or infected it just looks like someone is "spreading" his fin rays and new fin tissue fills in the space, growing his fin.

I did finally get him the proper, Cobalt heater he deserves. The cheap glass heater I had held out surprisingly well but started turning on too frequently and raising the tank temp. So I bit the bullet and bought him a proper Cobalt, it's basically invisible in his tank, I love it. His tank is also about to undergo a major rescape. I'm pulling out the bamboo. It's not doing well being wholly submerged and the water wisteria is growing so much I honestly don't need it. I also have a fairly large plant order coming in, mostly for him. So there will be pictures by Wednesday or Thursday

 

good, I'll be sure to check back..

 

Haha okay

 

About the splitting fin part.

My female betta (who you know is dealing with the fungus issue) actually has a split pectoral fin. It looks like someone just took scissors and snipped into her fin. It happened when the fungus outbreak occured) but never healed. It remains split now for a month but hasn't slowed her down.

Same thing though, no jagged edges or anything. I'm not sure if we're dealing with the same issues, but I also found that weird. Except in my case, it didn't grow back. Is there anything in the tank that he could possibly be scratching his fins on?
And I'm glad to hear he's doing a little better! I freak out as well whenever I see something on my fish too, don't worry! I once thought my fish had developed ich, but really he just kinda sat in the sand before and got sand all over him. I nearly had a heart attack when I first saw it.

Keep us updated! I'm rooting for him.

 

About the splitting fin part.

My female betta (who you know is dealing with the fungus issue) actually has a split pectoral fin. It looks like someone just took scissors and snipped into her fin. It happened when the fungus outbreak occured) but never healed. It remains split now for a month but hasn't slowed her down.

Same thing though, no jagged edges or anything. I'm not sure if we're dealing with the same issues, but I also found that weird. Except in my case, it didn't grow back. Is there anything in the tank that he could possibly be scratching his fins on?
And I'm glad to hear he's doing a little better! I freak out as well whenever I see something on my fish too, don't worry! I once thought my fish had developed ich, but really he just kinda sat in the sand before and got sand all over him. I nearly had a heart attack when I first saw it.

Keep us updated! I'm rooting for him.

I've had those kinds of tears before, like someone cut them. They usually seal up pretty fast (in my goldfish, an enormous, clean split sealed up in 48 hours) except when the fish is already dealing with something else. This is different on V. It looks neither like a clean split nor fin rot. Okay, gross analogy but you know doctors spread the ribs on a patient to access the chest cavity? It's like that. Like someone pulled apart his fin rays and now totally new fin tissue is growing in the space between, There may even be brand new branching and fin rays. it's not sealing back up, the fin is actually getting larger, it's quite visible his dorsal fin is now probably a quarter inch wider than it was. That's why it's odd and I wondered if betta fins could grow naturally this way. But I can't find anything on it.

I can't tell you how many ich scares I've been through with my goldfish. All the result of stress. When I was first cycling the goldie tank, I noticed my oranda had a tiny white spot on the dorsal fin. His dorsal is that clearish white so it was hard to tell so I wasn't totally convinced but then I looks at my ranchu, whose wen is dark matte brown, and he had what looked like an ich cyst right there. I broke down in tears. I dumped some salt in my aged water but I had to go to class to take an exam no less. I sent my boyfriend to the pet store to pick up Quick Cure, Ich Attack and a 1 gallon bowl for medicated baths while I was in class. My plan was to start with the salt and move to more aggressive treatments as needed. I was upset the entire time and I have no idea how I got an A on that test haha. After the test when I was on break I called hiI'm and he said he was looking at the ranchu and saw nothing, just an area where it looked a little whiter like his slime coat was thicker. I basically told him he doesn't know how to ID ich haha. But when I got home, he was right, it was gone. I realize now that it was probably just new wen growth but that day was terrible. Thankfully I didn't know about columnaris and all those other killer infections because I know I would have diagnosed them with all of them. I did at one point think Motley had cottonmouth, she has always had a bright white spot on her lower lip which seems to just be some kind of discoloration. I'm telling you, between me and the 4 goldfish, I'm the only one whose ever made myself sick from being stressed.

Now V's story was completely opposite. I kept avoiding treatment, not really sure if it was fin rot. The afternoon before the night the fin rot exploded, I was getting really stressed and said to my aunt, "I wish I could just confirm it either way." That night, 25% of his tail fin was lost in just 2 hours. It was really bad. I'm just grateful he's healing now. Even what we thought was permanent damage to his fins from before I had him, that area got hit by the fin rot somewhat and now it all seems to be healing up properly, I guess it's like breaking a badly healed bone on purpose so it can grow back properly.

Thank you for your kind words I'm pulling for your betta girl too, I hope the mysterious gray spots have subsided for you.

 

Yikes, that fin splitting is very odd. :s I really wish I knew what it was. Mine sorta seems to be the same way, since I just checked out her fin tonight and it's slowly filling in as well, but not as fast as yours. I think hers was probably due to an injury, which set off the fungus outbreak, whereas V's is probably just another symptom of the fin rot that you've been dealing with.
And wow, I feel yah when you say you freaked out about your goldfish haha. When I had gotten Drogo (male betta), the 2nd day I saw grains on his fin, and I'm like "NOOO YOU JUST GOT HERE DON'T DO THIS TO ME ;~;". I was so upset because I thought the stress of travel had turned him sick. Turns out he just really likes to play in the sand. I saw him get a mouthful of sand then spit it straight up, and watched as all the grains fell onto his body. It's like he knew this would freak me out. >_>

 

Haha that's really cute. I was watching the celestial eye goldfish at my LFS. I love these guys but they are super needy. I was watching them blindly sifted through the sand I noticed white grains on their heads and I thought how sad they have ich on top of their bred disability, they are so freaking cute it made me really sad to see them like that. Then I realized the "grains" were sparkling haha. And I understood in that moment that the sand in the tank was also kind of sparkly (wonder what kind that was I loved it...it was kind of a slightly larger grain mixed with a finer grain and whitish/silvery) and they just hand sand on their cute little heads. It was so sweet.

Update:

Tail rot has returned.

I am 99.99% certain it's my fault. Heater malfunction led to 4 degree temp swing between 78-82F for about 36 hours. I replaced the heater with the heater I should have gotten him a long time ago but the swing probably stressed him out and allowed the infection to return.

Please, god, do not let it be resistant. I can see it's the exact same infection, it hasn't spread too far yet but it did a lot of damage in one little area and I can see the red tip again.

Starting with Paraguard in-tank, methylene blue/Kanaplex baths. I'm not messing around this time. Maybe since I've started right away I can keep it from getting worse.

What are my options for alternative antibiotics if Kanaplex fails, anyone know?

 

Ill do some research, I'm a google queen. If I find something ill let you know

 

Ill do some research, I'm a google queen. If I find something ill let you know

Thank you! I've been doing a little of the same but it's been a crazy day with the new arrivals So far it hasn't progressed, or if it has it's just a little bit, but I can see it's the same infection. Same red tips on the exposed ray and a little bit of that old blood colored discoloration.

Since I've already done this once and the Paraguard only slowed it down a little bit last time, I figured I needed to go right to the more aggressive medications so I pulled out the Paraguard with carbon and WC and resumed dosing with Kanaplex directly in the tank and food. Fortunately he had a couple weeks off from it to recover. I'm also back to the methylene blue baths. He's had 2 so far and I'm not really seeing instant improvement like last time but I only began in-tank Kanaplex today so hopefully the combination will work. I may lengthen the methylene blue baths to 30 minutes or so.

I have this fear that he will not be able to fight it this time and I will end up losing him

Is fin rot usually THIS aggressive? My best guess is it was my fault with the temp swings but bettas are pretty hardy fish, I'm really wondering if V might be immunocompromised in some way given how suddenly and powerfully it came back last time.

Do you know if dying plants can house the bacteria that produces fin rot? I don't mean by affecting the water quality, I've kept even his nitrates totally negative let alone ammonia/nitrite, but I mean the plant itself? The bamboo was starting to look not so good, the tips of the stalks were turning kind of black. I was planning to pull them out next WC anyway because of this and the plant order I have coming so they are gone now but I wonder if they could have caused it.

If I look at the symptom pattern. V had mild fin rot when I got him. I wasn't even sure it was fin rot and not just damage that's how mild the actual rot was (though the damage was significant, there didn't appear to be much rot). It was 99.99% healed with just clean water and diet. Then I added the bamboo and a couple days later the fin rot came back in a way I'd never expected, very fast and very aggressive and far worse than when I got him. Now, I treated that and just as he's almost healed, here we are again, right around the time the bamboo started getting nasty. Water quality is flawless, I have been doing 30-50% every other day to promote healing and just in case the Kanaplex dinged my cycle. Maybe he is just really susceptible to stress. Since it came back after I added the bamboo maybe it was the adding and not the bamboo itself? But he didn't seem stressed. Still I can't imagine the temp flux didn't stress him though he appeared fine so maybe he's just immunocompromised or something.

Oh, god, sorry for the ramble. I feel really helpless. Like I'm missing something really important because it really shouldn't be coming back. His diet, water quality, everything is spot on. So then why is it back again?

 

Ok so gimme a list of all the meds hes had already.

 

HI PI can I suggest something. You really might want to order some indian almond leaf and add regular aquarium salt once this dosing is complete. I really believe that has kept my betta from having any symptoms of bacteria or fungus. Salt kills these as does the IAL. Although you will here folks on here talk about not adding salt, I have for months now-ever since I had some end up with fin rot and ordered a betta and the instructions that were included stated to keep ial and salt from the breeder.
Good luck and hopes he makes it!

 

HI PI can I suggest something. You really might want to order some indian almond leaf and add regular aquarium salt once this dosing is complete. I really believe that has kept my betta from having any symptoms of bacteria or fungus. Salt kills these as does the IAL. Although you will here folks on here talk about not adding salt, I have for months now-ever since I had some end up with fin rot and ordered a betta and the instructions that were included stated to keep ial and salt from the breeder.
Good luck and hopes he makes it!

Oh yeah I'm not against salt at all. I've used it to detox nitrites, for an ich scare, all of it. Though I don't keep it in the tank always, I did use it when I first brought V home and noticed the mild fin rot and was still using it to detox nitrites during TSS cycle (didn't matter cause I never got any) when the fin rot reappeared

I don't share the no salt, no exceptions philosophy that some subscribe to. I believe it has a purpose. Are you saying that you keep salt in the tank all the time? That I was a little iffy on doing because I read about salt-resistant parasites and bacteria (I know columnaris HATES salt but the concentration has to be like deadly high to treat it with salt). But honestly I'm at the point where I'm ready to start keeping it in the betta tank full time, it can't be worse than what he's already going through and it just might give the medications an extra boost.

I was going to salt the ranchu QT tomorrow to help out Hershey with the little red marks he incurred during transit so I'm going to add it to V's tank as well.

Do you add it in at the full dosage? One rounded tablespoon per 5 gallons? I'm going to message SeaChem tomorrow and see if it's safe to use during the Kanaplex treatment perhaps at a lower dose or something. It might just give the Kanaplex a little boost since this is the third recurrence.

As for IALs...I have been wanting them for SO long but I cannot find them locally. Is there a place you recommend ordering them from?

Thank you!

 

I'm thinking you may be on to something with the bamboo. Plants can't be sterilized completely and the bamboo may be harboring a bacteria that is attacking V. Before I understood QT, I put plants in my tank and I ended up with snails, lots of them. Who knows what microscopic hitchhikers I introduced to the tank. Until he is 100% maybe he should be the only biologic in the tank.

 

Hey clean out your inbox lol.

 

Haha Witchydesign - I just did I got your PM though. Thanks!
Jchendrix5 - The bamboo didn't come from a pet store or any kind of aquarium retail. Which I suppose could be good or bad. At any rate, it's gone. I really can't take away his water wisteria I'm pretty sure he would die of heart break that way. When I first got him it was impulsive and I didn't have any fin-friendly decor so he was in a 10 gallon with just a hammock and a log and although he seemed okay, the addition of decor was really the end all be all. The bamboo is gone now however I've reached a point where I'm thinking the tank may need a complete tear down, which means everything gets replaced, plants included. Which sucks because I have a giant plant order coming in tomorrow or Thursday just for him. I guess I'll just put them in some kind of make-shift QT until I'm certain the infection has cleared or after I tear down the tank.

 

Hi, yes I am saying I keep about a 1/3 a teaspoon in a tank (5g) and that is it. I no longer see any signs of any of the common diseases betta seem to routinely get.
The IAL I order on ebay.
Here is where I ordered it last:

These take a while to get here as they come from malaysia

 

Okay, I am on it! I didn't get a good look but looks like some of the red tips are gone. And no progression that I can see but I will get a better look once the light is on.