Unpopular opinions? - Page 5

[Leeman75]

Here's my unpopular opinion of the day. Y'all change too much water in your planted tanks.

Please tell us more about this...

 

[Evergreen2]

Here's mine, you can put two or three goldfish in a 10/20 gallon, dependent on size and willingness to keep up on WCs(and the goldies willingness to not turn your plants into an expensive salad) and not have to upgrade if the fish stunts well. But the moment it takes two swooshes of the tail to get from one side of the tank to the other, you need to upgrade. Obviously you can't place a massive 8 in Fancy or even common in 20/25g. It would have to be a 40b or 50 with a couple of friends at minimum gallon-wise.

 

[SinisterCichlids]

The louder the filter, the better. I love the water noise

Might be the most unpopular opinion of all time ... hahaha

 

[jkkgron2]

Here's mine, you can put two or three goldfish in a 10/20 gallon, dependent on size and willingness to keep up on WCs(and the goldies willingness to not turn your plants into an expensive salad) and not have to upgrade if the fish stunts well. But the moment it takes two swooshes of the tail to get from one side of the tank to the other, you need to upgrade. Obviously you can't place a massive 8 in Fancy or even common in 20/25g. It would have to be a 40b or 50 with a couple of friends at minimum gallon-wise.

You could eat keep them in such a small tank permanently without stunting them. Do you mean just keeping them in there when they’re baby’s and upgrading ?

 

[SinisterCichlids]

Mine: Don't mix cichlid lakes. Just don't. Nothing is awesome about a venustus and rusty as roommates.

 

[Dippiedee]

Here's mine, you can put two or three goldfish in a 10/20 gallon, dependent on size and willingness to keep up on WCs(and the goldies willingness to not turn your plants into an expensive salad) and not have to upgrade if the fish stunts well. But the moment it takes two swooshes of the tail to get from one side of the tank to the other, you need to upgrade. Obviously you can't place a massive 8 in Fancy or even common in 20/25g. It would have to be a 40b or 50 with a couple of friends at minimum gallon-wise.

I'm confused, are you saying its okay to put 2 or 3 goldfish in a 10 gallon and not upgrade? Or just keep them there as babies?

 

[Evergreen2]

I'm confused, are you saying its okay to put 2 or 3 goldfish in a 10 gallon and not upgrade? Or just keep them there as babies?

It depends on how the fish grows. If you have two tiny guys who don't grow hardly at all for the ten years they (Just an example) live. Then sure. But if you're religious about WCs and they grow to three quarters the length of the tank in the first year or two, then no of course not. Tank upgrading is necessary.

 

[mimo91088]

Please tell us more about this...

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying changing water does any harm. But I'm all about making the hobby as easy as possible where I can and I don't want to do more work than I have to.

It's all about striking the right balance between plants and livestock while keeping a close eye on your parameters. I have a well established planted tank that's been going for years and I change the water like twice a year.

The plants eat up the nitrates no problem. Instead of changing water to replace minerals I just dose ferts and use buffers to maintain gh and kh. I know it sounds like a bad idea but this tank has been running this way for about 4 years now I think. Maybe longer. Works for me.

 

[AngelfishDude722]

I agree completely! They are nice to each other, pretty, require a minimal investment in the fish themselves or their tanks (other than size) and you end up with a large, interactive, friendly, shiny beautiful fish that recognizes you and wants to say hello! What could be better?

One hundred percent they might be one of the most overlooked fish in the hobby. Everyone knows them but few want them, and most of the few that want them use them for food.

 

[Evergreen2]

You could eat keep them in such a small tank permanently without stunting them. Do you mean just keeping them in there when they’re baby’s and upgrading ?

Stunting doesn't hurt then. It's an evolutionary trait developed so they don't grow their pond/lake/body of water. And some fish are naturally just runts also. So no.

 

[Dippiedee]

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head when you called it an unpopular opinion

 

[AngelfishDude722]

you guys have such cute goldfish you've officially changed my mind about fancy goldfish MomeWrath mimo91088 they are adorable wonderful creatures and i want them. shubunkins are still my favorite though

Glad to see you came around to goldfish!

 

[Evergreen2]

Well, I think you hit the nail on the head when you called it an unpopular opinion

It's doable, I meant some of the longest lived goldfish are less than 4 in long and lived to be 30 or 40 years old and lived in 5g-10g tanks their entire lives. Where as some of the biggest lived to be maybe ten, if that. I personally would do 2 in a 20gal. 10 is too much work for me.

I have a maybe two in(including tail) tiny little guy in a 5g quarantine tank now and I've very uncomfortable with it at the moment. But since we're battling Ich, it's the only QT I had at the time. He'll be moved to the 20g after his QT.

 

[Dippiedee]

Just because its doable doesnt make it ethical. A dog could technically live out its whole life in a cage. Keep the cage clean, and keep the dog fed and it could live it's full life expectancy. Does that make it right?

 

[AngelfishDude722]

Just because its doable doesnt make it ethical. A dog could technically live out its whole life in a cage. Keep the cage clean, and keep the dog fed and it could live it's full life expectancy. Does that make it right?

Truly spoken I could not have said it better.

 

[Evergreen2]

Just because its doable doesnt make it ethical. A dog could technically live out its whole life in a cage. Keep the cage clean, and keep the dog fed and it could live it's full life expectancy. Does that make it right?

Truly spoken I could not have said it better.

That's not much difference than all the people who are/were currently stuck indoors with 800 or 400 sq feet of home. In other countries who cannot go out without a note saying their reason. I'm not sure you're understanding my first point. It's depressing when its takes the fish a swoosh of the tail to get from once side to the other. Upgrading in that case is a must. I'm talking about when you get them at an inch, maybe two inches, they don't grow and stay the same size their entire lives in a 20g. Yes it would be nice to upgrade, but it's not needed. It's not much different than dogs who have tiny yards{on a normal city sized lot) and live most of their lived in that yard.

 

[jkkgron2]

It depends on how the fish grows. If you have two tiny guys who don't grow hardly at all for the ten years they (Just an example) live. Then sure. But if you're religious about WCs and they grow to three quarters the length of the tank in the first year or two, then no of course not. Tank upgrading is necessary.

Well, you’re saying that if you keep up on water changes then they’ll grow. It’s bad for the fish if you don’t.. So that wouldn’t work out very well.
When I was new to the hobby I kept 2 goldfish in a 10 gallon. Within a year (with water changes every month) they were 4 inches. They’re now in a 55 gallon and after seeing how much space they use, I would never keep a common goldfish in a tank under 40 gallons.

 

[mimo91088]

Well, you’re saying that if you keep up on water changes then they’ll grow. It’s bad for the fish if you don’t.. So that wouldn’t work out very well.
When I was new to the hobby I kept 2 goldfish in a 10 gallon. Within a year (with water changes every month) they were 4 inches. They’re now in a 55 gallon and after seeing how much space they use, I would never keep a common goldfish in a tank under 40 gallons.

This is true. It's hormones built up in the water that cause stunting. Usually since goldfish are very dirty so we need to change a lot of water. The hormones don't build up enough and the fish keeps growing. I think goldfish tank size is greatly overstated by most people, but I still don't reccomend anything less than a 29 for a couple fantails or a 55 for a few commons.

That being said I'm not convinced stunting is inherently harmful. I have seen no scientific article that the internal organs continue to grow and kill the fish. I've only ever see it repeated on forums, never a source. One of the oldest recorded goldfish (I think the record has been broken now) lived in a bowl for its entire life.

 

[FinalFins]

Heres mine for today-

All angelfish should ideally be maintained in groups of 5+

 

[AngelfishDude722]

Heres mine for today-

All angelfish should ideally be maintained in groups of 5+

Uhh I made a big mistake I bought one to go with some giant danios and cories. But I do not have enough room for anymore .

 

[jake37]

What should i do with my established threesome?

Heres mine for today-

All angelfish should ideally be maintained in groups of 5+

 

[faydout]

All angelfish should ideally be maintained in groups of 5+

This is why I think I've given up on getting some for my 54. I may just keep this one with Sterbai and the Apistos. Means I really would like to find a 2nd female, and about 4 - 6 more Cories (12 - 14 total).

 

[AngelfishDude722]

From what I have seen angels are better in giant schools,

 

[Cooperman411]

A cheap price tag shouldnt make people think of fish as disposable. It's still an animal with needs and requirements. Just because it was cheap doesnt give you the right to neglect it. A goldfish has just as much right to a comfortable life as an arowana.

I agree entirely. But I do think it's ironic how much money I'm happy to spend (literally hundreds of $$) to keep my $5 betta happy.

Ok.. my unpopular opinion would be goldfish can be tankmates with tropical fishes if the two are compatible, not talking about temperature compatibility. Lots of people say that goldfish can't be kept with tropical fishes as the temperature requirement varies.
But goldfish can live in both cold and tropical temperature waters.
Where I live it's 40°C above most of times in summer, sometimes even 42-43°C. Except winter and spring, the temperature always remain north of 28°C for 7-8 for 7-8 months.
Then how people can keep goldfish here in their tanks if they can't live in tropical temperatures? If they can keep fishes here successfully, then it means they do fine in these temperatures and can be kept in tropical tanks with tropical fishes unless they are incompatible.

I used to live in the "Valley" of L.A. where the summer temps are often 90-100+ degrees. We had 44 goldfish in an 2000+ gallon outdoor pond. Started with just 15. The water was always around 80 degrees 6 months of the year.

 

[WrenFeenix]

This is true. It's hormones built up in the water that cause stunting. Usually since goldfish are very dirty so we need to change a lot of water. The hormones don't build up enough and the fish keeps growing. I think goldfish tank size is greatly overstated by most people, but I still don't reccomend anything less than a 29 for a couple fantails or a 55 for a few commons.

That being said I'm not convinced stunting is inherently harmful. I have seen no scientific article that the internal organs continue to grow and kill the fish. I've only ever see it repeated on forums, never a source. One of the oldest recorded goldfish (I think the record has been broken now) lived in a bowl for its entire life.

Oh, that reminds me:
I think that ‘fish organs continuing to grow after they stunt until they implode’ is a bunch of baloney. I have no idea why this is even a thing, it doesn’t make any sense.

All the oldest (and biggest) goldfish I’ve heard of are in the UK. I guess people who live in an island country know a thing or two about fish and water.

 

[LotusWhispers]

I’ve got one that hasn’t been said lol:

That an “inch of fish per gallon” is a useful gatekeeper myth protecting hordes of fish from people who didn’t do research, don’t know what nitrogen or phosphate is, or think test kits are a waste of money.

I say, know your fish, know your water, a pro will be able to read their fish like themselves and deliver the optimal environment relative to them.

Obviously overcrowding is still important not to do, just saying it’s relative : ). Beginners should honor the myth lol.

 

[!poogs!]

You should make sure the water parameters match the water parameters of the fish species in the wild.

There are very few fished sourced from the wild in the hobby anymore.

 

[jake37]

This is actually a problem because many tank raised fishes will go into shock if put in native water conditions. Conversely there are those fishes that will never do well unless they are in very soft or very hard water while some of them are not common those africans are extremely popular without people understanding how to care for them.

You should make sure the water parameters match the water parameters of the fish species in the wild.

There are very few fished sourced from the wild in the hobby anymore.

 

[!poogs!]

This is actually a problem because many tank raised fishes will go into shock if put in native water conditions. Conversely there are those fishes that will never do well unless they are in very soft or very hard water while some of them are not common those africans are extremely popular without people understanding how to care for them.

Agreed.

I was being very general. Sorry.

I meant it more as providing stable water parameters is at times more I important than chasing text book results.

 

[Gudgie]

I hate sponge filters and refuse to own one. Give me a HOB or canister any day. Not quite sure why I loath them so much - other than that they eat up too much tank real estate and can look unsightly.

For the record - not saying they’re bad. I know many prefer them for fry, I just continue to dislike them.

 

[Sputnik]

I don’t like Fluval stratum as a substrate- for me it always turns to sludge within a year. I think every fishkeeper in the world loves it except for me...

 

[Mii]

As much as i love guppies, i think they are TERRIBLE for beginners. The problem isn't the guppies themselves, infact IF you can find disease-free guppies they are wonderful fish and pretty easy to keep, but the fact that you often end up bringing home more than just guppies. They are one if the most disease filled groups of fish you can get. They often have fin rot, gill flukes, and the dreaded camallanus worms, which are so awful some people just euthanize everything and start their whole tank over. They often take 6-12 weeks before showing symptoms, so they'll slip right through your quarantine tank. Also you have to wash all your equipment with hot water or else they can catch a ride on your equipment and infect your other tanks. They're immune to many medications, so you have to get something called Levamisole, which is kinda hard to get as it is often used as a cutting agent in cocaine. You'll probably end up having to get the kind intended for deworming sheep and cows, it's the same stuff, but you'll have to calculate the dose yourself. You then have to black out the tank as Levamisole is light sensitive. You also have to treat the tank multiple times, once to kill the parasites, than you have to wait around 2 weeks, although some people recommend 1, and some recommend 3, to kill any parasite larvae that have hatched, as the Levamisole doesn't kill the eggs. As you can see it's a huge pain. Also, by the time fish show symptoms it's often too late to save them. I've heard if fish's stomachs literally exploding with worms. And I've only told you about ONE of the diseases they get. This is the kind of thing that makes someone give up on fishkeeping entirely. I think the reason they're so full of disease, is that they're so easy to breed, and you can breed them in pretty bad condition. so a whole bunch of people bring their guppies to the fish store, some of which came from atrocious conditions, and they all get shoved into one tank there, since the fish store simply doesn't have enough tanks to keep them separate if they tried, so now you've got all these guppies, each from a different place, all in one tank, and if even one of them has a disease, it probably spreads to all of them, so you're almost guaranteed to vet sick guppies unless you get pure bred ones, which are often really inbred, meaning they've got their own bunch of health problems.

 

[jake37]

Guppies are the best. They solve all problems. They even spontaneously appeared in my pail.

 

[Mii]

Guppies are the best. They solve all problems. They even spontaneously appeared in my pail.

What?

 

[jake37]

What ?

What?

 

[MacZ]

You should make sure the water parameters match the water parameters of the fish species in the wild.

There are very few fished sourced from the wild in the hobby anymore.

Yes and no to the first. I'd rather say: Choose your fish according to your water.
We all know pH-chasing is risky business. And that hard water species tend to wither away pretty easy in soft water, while soft water species can be kept quite easy in hard water. But it's also known, that soft water can easily be hardened, while the other way round is only safely possible with RO.

You will be blown away how many fish are still wild caught. Talk to a wholesaler or an importeur.

 

[fishkeepinginaisa]

This isn’t discounting proper/consistent tank maintenance but 40ppm nitrates is not going to instantly cause a fish to die.

Parameter chasing. I think people get super caught up on fish needing exact water parameters as in the wild. I think some of these farm/tank raised fish are so far removed that their adaptability and ability to thrive is understated. Again this is within reason like above.

Very true. captive bred fish are definitely tougher. Instead of killing them instantly prolonged poor water parameters takes time off their total lifespan, but won't kill them instantly.

 

[HolyKamikaziBetta]

I just wanna know what are some of your guys unpopular opinions when it comes to fish.

I have a few.
I don’t water change unless I have some negative water readings which is... like... hardly ever. Maybe once every 3-5 months.
I don’t vacuum my substrate.
I’ve also kept multiple male betta fish in a 60g together successfully. (With a female/male balance)

Don't keep the tank too clean, let the mulm accumulate, and establish a mini-ecosystem within the tank itself with various microorganisms and plants.

Yeah. Agreed.
I don’t water change unless it’s vital, and I don’t vac my substrate. It’s been quite successful for me

It’s actually

My (sometimes) unpopular opinions:
1. (My)Tanks are for fish, not plants and the fish don't eat fertilizer so don't dump it in there. Grow what your fish and water can grow without supplementation. See number 2. If you clean it too much you will never produce enough nitrogen by-product or the critters to break down and convert the good stuff. Conversely, if you go lazy on your water changes your calcium and other macro nutrients will be unstable. You can find something that will grow in almost anything, but if the water is unstable you may not find what you're looking for.

2. There are 2 kinds of tank (in my fish room). The ones designed to be clean, and the ones designed to run dirty. Planted tanks will need allot of help to stay balanced in the beginning but if treated correctly as they mature: a mix of the filtration, micro fauna/biome and planting/plant removal. will handle the cleaning. "Mulm" will be eaten and converted by the billions of pets from microscopic up to snail size you don't know you have or need. Monitoring water (including nitrate, phosphate, gh/kh and some others) and changing water as required will keep it all in balance. (My) bare bottom tanks are water changed so often you might not think the fish are real, and the nitrogen cycle is negligible in them.

3. There is not infact a thing that is a no water change tank. Though you can get a tank to grow and mature and be amazing possibly for a year or two with only top off and supplementation, eventually the tank will need to be reset. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, I think of it as art(that I lack the skill for). But the people looking specifically at the fact water is not drained (but rather evaporates at a balanced rate to the stocking of life, plant and supplement) are often looking at it as "easy" but infact need to realize the true work that goes into such tanks. These tanks are not for lazy fish keepers.

4. There is no such thing as a "pest" snail, more often the fish feeder is the pest themselves. The smaller adult snails are often the best way to keep tight spaces and details in a tank clean. What will keep the fish happier: a tiny snail cleaning the gunk off the "zen bridge" ornament someone gave you that you hide behind a plant, or your giant arm and a tooth brush displacing 3 gallons of water making tidal waves. If your "pest" snail population booms any time other than their initial introduction and clean up, you must realize they have found a new food source or you are being heavy handed. If one post today is "ermagawd so many snails/snail eggs" and an hour later "guppy is hiding and I can't find it" or "how much do you feed your pleco" you might have a causation/correlation situation.

5. You don't need to act exclusively on any one version of any ones "how to"(including mine). Everyone wants something different. We start with different goals, parameters, target breeds etc. Just because I use gifted fish tank "decorations" for target practice or my children's toy tubs doesn't mean you shouldn't buy that sunken battleship decoration you like. Just because I like nano sumps and so and so likes canister but this guy likes sponge doesn't mean you shouldn't try one of the newer less expensive electric submersible box filters with a venturi to kill all the birds at once if you want to. Come ask for advice when you want it, but it's your tank.

6. Other than dechlorinator, you likely don't need those chemicals and meds they sold you. If you are on a well you don't need that either. Yes, I have some meds in my cabinet; I also necropsy any fish large enough to verify the presence of what I want to treat for using a couple different microscopes and *some* bacterial culturing. I have treated without slide scrapes one time, and even though I was treating for one of the most common illnesses, I was treating the wrong one. Many dollars and a ton of stress later I finally got a fish fresh enough to scrape and found it was a not so common bacteria, and not in-fact ich... Myself and several others that have studied informally had all looked in on the live subjects and I also uploaded multiple photos, but in the end, we were wrong. See number 5 for more treatment advice and philosophy. Chemical wise, unpopular opinion 6.1, if it takes more than dechlorinator and maybe a bare minimum and easily accessible macro nutrient package to support the fish you want to keep, consider different fish. If you can't support any fish, maybe take up gardening or buy a bird/reptile/anything that literally isn't fighting nature. If you need to do an emergency flush and you can't support life you have put yourself and your pets in a bad stressful situation.

7. *All* my fellow fishlore brothers and sisters are in fact actually well intentioned. No matter how much it seems like one is trying to be louder than another. Just looking at the names above me: yes that brand is deceptive, no that filter doesn't exist(currently), ceramic is easier to seed a tank with than sponge... I could go on about all of our vocal opinions and scientific*ish* experimentation/research and honestly, I'm proud of everyone here. Even when we are dead wrong, we either want to help, or have the humility to ask in the first place. Reading this one you may think this is in fact a popular opinion, but please remember this one next time you disagree with another member about something you know, that they may just know differently (see number 5). You may have had this thought yourself about my most controversial *opinions*.

It’s actually a pretty popular opinion that aquariums absolutely need water changes.
the unpopular opinion would be very little to no water changes.

 

[mimo91088]

Here's one. I think aquaclear filters are poorly designed and have a garbage impeller. Even if someone gave me a free aquaclear, I'd throw it in the trash where it belongs and go buy a marineland lol.

 

[HolyKamikaziBetta]

I do agree with this up to a point. Keep the water fresh and clean. The substrate, decor and tank walls not so much. Let a little but not too much "stuff" accumulate on those things. Some folks don't have the time or inclination but big weekly water changes are the secret to keeping a healthy tank.

I do water changes like once every 3-5 months.
If your water is fine, you don’t need to change it. Ive not once cleaned my sponge filter in 2 years... lol.

 

[MacZ]

I do water changes like once every 3-5 months.
If your water is fine, you don’t need to change it. Ive not once cleaned my sponge filter in 2 years... lol.

Do your thing, just one point to consider: There must be a reason you can do this. Massive amounts of plants, few fish, and other factors that make this possible. I don't know which apply in your case, but definitely there must be a reason it works. That reason would be nice to know, so beginners that read this don't try and fail and make you responsible.

 

[mattgirl]

I do water changes like once every 3-5 months.
If your water is fine, you don’t need to change it. Ive not once cleaned my sponge filter in 2 years... lol.

I am glad that works for you but it may not work for everyone.

 

[jake37]

There have been long threads on water changes - obviously there are no absolute right and wrong here. I use to never do water changes; now i do them all the time (twice a week) - which is better - i can't tell - there seems to be other factors that have a big impact on fishes. To be honest the tank that does the best overall is my massively over populated guppy tank but now that i've thinned it out it isn't so massively over populated. I still do water changes in it because now it is a habit. What i don't know is it a good habit or bad habit ?

 

[mattgirl]

There have been long threads on water changes - obviously there are no absolute right and wrong here. I use to never do water changes; now i do them all the time (twice a week) - which is better - i can't tell - there seems to be other factors that have a big impact on fishes. To be honest the tank that does the best overall is my massively over populated guppy tank but now that i've thinned it out it isn't so massively over populated. I still do water changes in it because now it is a habit. What i don't know is it a good habit or bad habit ?

In my humble opinion it is a very good habit.

 

[StarGirl]

My unpopular opinion is everyone freaks out too much on using cleaners and soap on aquarium equipment. If you rinse it really really good its fine. I use Lime away regularly on my lids because I have hard water and my plants would die of no light through the calcium build up. I wash if off good and re clean it with Dawn dish soap, rinse, rinse, rinse its totally fine.

 

[!poogs!]

Yes and no to the first. I'd rather say: Choose your fish according to your water.
We all know pH-chasing is risky business. And that hard water species tend to wither away pretty easy in soft water, while soft water species can be kept quite easy in hard water. But it's also known, that soft water can easily be hardened, while the other way round is only safely possible with RO.

You will be blown away how many fish are still wild caught. Talk to a wholesaler or an importeur.

Geez I guess I’m being tooooo general again. I assumed that hobbyist knows the difference between hard water and soft fish and wouldn’t try keep discus in hard water or African cichlids in soft water. Just like I shouldn’t have to tell a salt water hobbyist not to keep freshwater fish in the same tank. Hahahah

Here's one. I think aquaclear filters are poorly designed and have a garbage impeller. Even if someone gave me a free aquaclear, I'd throw it in the trash where it belongs and go buy a marineland lol.

Agreed, maybe not a marineland....but seachem tidal for sure. Hahahahaha

 

[MacZ]

Geez I guess I’m being tooooo general again. I assumed that hobbyist knows the difference between hard water and soft fish and wouldn’t try keep discus in hard water or African cichlids in soft water. Just like I shouldn’t have to tell a salt water hobbyist not to keep freshwater fish in the same tank. Hahahah

You still assume that?

 

[AvalancheDave]

Dawn Dish Soap...I don't know why people use it.

"WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!!!!????"

It's safeR for removing oil from birds than alternatives like xylene or alcohol. It's not 100% safe for birds and it's probably much more dangerous for fish.

There's no grease or oil to remove in aquariums and Dawn is hard to completely rinse away.

Agreed, maybe not a marineland....but seachem tidal for sure. Hahahahaha

The Tidal is the only Seachem product I like. Oh wait, it's made for them by Sicce.

 

[jake37]

For glass tops i use vinegar. Put a bit on wait 5 minutes and wipe. Then rinse.

Dawn Dish Soap...I don't know why people use it.

"WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!!!!????"

It's safeR for removing oil from birds than alternatives like xylene or alcohol. It's not 100% safe for birds and it's probably much more dangerous for fish.

There's no grease or oil to remove in aquariums and Dawn is hard to completely rinse away.



The Tidal is the only Seachem product I like. Oh wait, it's made for them by Sicce.

 

[StarGirl]

For glass tops i use vinegar. Put a bit on wait 5 minutes and wipe. Then rinse.

Doesn't work on mine. Its the same if I left it for 20 minutes. The Lime away doesn't even take it all off. Its super bad. Believe me I tried.