Unnecessary worrying about water changes

Basically I have a new aquarium. Completed a fishless cycle and followed the guidelines of ammonia dropping to 0 within 24hrs.

After the fishless cycle:

Day 1 I introduced 6 rainbowfish and 2 german blue rams. I did two 20% water changes, one in the a.m. one in the p.m.

Day 2 I did the same style of water changes after purchasing additional plants, messing up the gravel and of course planting the smelly plants from petsmart to give some line of site breaking for the rams to aid in the rams establish territory. I figured maby, just maby I would cause some kind of ammonia spike and best to err on the side of caution. Rinse the plants and do a the water changes.

Day 3 worried about some kind of residual ammonia or decomposition of those smelly plants I have been checking the tank often. had 0.25 ammonia in the a.m. 0 on the p.m. and then some before bed, maby 0.25 but definitely not a solid .25.... My brain tells me it's fine and bacteria are eating away at the ammonia. nitrite is nearly 0 and nitrate says its fully processing ammonia and nitrite.... it's Cristal clear the cycle is going and I am so far from 20ppm nitrate... but my anxiety of loosing fish for some unknown reason due to smelly plants got the better of me and I did a 30% change again.

The fish seem to love it, water is treated with bottle bacteria and conditioner, it crystal clear but as you can see I'm worried about stepping away from the changes. I'm going to NOT do a water change tomorrow and do my absolute best to wait at least 2 days while monitoring levels.

Making this post to hopefully ease my worry or maby justify my worry. Either way, just putting this out there.

Thanks

 

If you already have enough bacteria to bring an ammonia reading of .25 down to 0 over a 12 hour period you're probably in pretty good shape. However I'm not sure how big your tank is or how many fish where in it before, so the addition of 8 fish may or may not add a lot more ammonia, and require a lot more beneficial bacteria. Just keep testing your water regularly. Unless it is a small, overstocked tank you shouldn't need to do water changes every single day... But listen to those tests and keep an eye out for any signs of stress or ammonia poisoning such as "glass surfing" or red gills.
Also you don't want to change too much water either as the bacteria wont grow to the level you need without ammonia. But make sure you don't let the ammonia or nitrites get high enough to harm the fish.

 

If you already have enough bacteria to bring an ammonia reading of .25 down to 0 over a 12 hour period you're probably in pretty good shape. However I'm not sure how big your tank is or how many fish where in it before, so the addition of 8 fish may or may not add a lot more ammonia, and require a lot more beneficial bacteria. Just keep testing your water regularly. Unless it is a small, overstocked tank you shouldn't need to do water changes every single day... But listen to those tests and keep an eye out for any signs of stress or ammonia poisoning such as "glass surfing" or red gills.
Also you don't want to change too much water either as the bacteria wont grow to the level you need without ammonia. But make sure you don't let the ammonia or nitrites get high enough to harm the fish.

It's a brand new 20gallon, freshly cycled.

Only glass surfing I have is from 1 ram and he's being chased by the more dominant ram. Something tells me I got two male. So I did additional planting and it seems to have helped. Just before bed he was chilling instead of being so frantic (they are only 2 days new to the tank) no red gils anywhere on my fish. I would say I am at 100% capacity for this tank and as the fish grow I may upgrade.

Thank you. I will continue to monitor everything as per usual and base my next water change on the readings instead of basing them on my concerns.

This is also a heavily planted aquarium. At the end on my fishless cycle I has 0 nitrates due to the external aquaponic set up.

 

Wow that will be very cool if your hydroponic setup continues to be able to keep nitrates at 0 with the new addition of the fish! I'm curious as to how many / what type of plants you are using. You should make a thread about it!

It sounds like you have a good understanding of the nitrogen cycle and shouldn't have any issues as long as you trust your gut and your tests. Good luck!

 

Instead of so many water changes I would just test water and change water once a week.

 

Wow that will be very cool if your hydroponic setup continues to be able to keep nitrates at 0 with the new addition of the fish! I'm curious as to how many / what type of plants you are using. You should make a thread about it!

It sounds like you have a good understanding of the nitrogen cycle and shouldn't have any issues as long as you trust your gut and your tests. Good luck!

I planted 14 garlic, 14 chives, 2 pothos. I chose garlic because it is fast rooting and hungry for nitrates, takes 8months for it to bulb, chose chives because they are fast rooting, pothos because they are a nitrogen powerhouse and the rest was to give the rams a hiding space.

Inside the tank I have 2 ozelot Swords, 6 of one type of money plant, 6 of some type of purple-green plant.

Instead of so many water changes I would just test water and change water once a week.

Yes I am going to work on doing this. I've been getting some anxiety about leaving the tank untouched and having a freak ammonia spike. But I should be fine.
Ammonia .25
Nitrite didn't really register, slight slight purple tint. But not .25
Nitrate 0

I'll keep an eye and if it's a repeat of yesterday and ammonia drops, I'll leave the tank alone.

If I get closer to .5 or 1 I'll do a change again. Hopefully my initial cycle was good enough. If my bacteria is not up to standard I assume with close observation and water changes when required it'll slowly get to where it needs to be.

 

Ammonia should never reach 1ppm, I think just monitor fish health and water change following a big feeding is all you need

Do not use ammonia or nitrite as indicators.... By the time you see a reading the fish will be dead.

 

Ammonia should never reach 1ppm, I think just monitor fish health and water change following a big feeding is all you need

Do not use ammonia or nitrite as indicators.... By the time you see a reading the fish will be dead.

I don't think I follow this. Don't use ammonia and nitrite levels as an indicators for a potential upcoming water changes? Isn't this how you keep a tank properly monitored? Maby there needs to be more explanation because I don't follow this logic.

Nitrate is the end result but without monitoring the other 2 you don't know where your at or if you need a water change incase something other than nitrats us way out of wack. Keep in mind this is a brand new and cycled tank.

 

Have you tested your source (tap?) water? Mine, like many others, contains chloramines and tests between .5 and .75 ammonia. Doing a water change with the tank at .25 will raise the ammonia level.

I'd not be concerned about .25 on a new tank unless it gets higher or fails to drop in the coming weeks. It won't harm the fish.

 

Have you tested your source (tap?) water? Mine, like many others, contains chloramines and tests between .5 and .75 ammonia. Doing a water change with the tank at .25 will raise the ammonia level.

I'd not be concerned about .25 on a new tank unless it gets higher or fails to drop in the coming weeks. It won't harm the fish.

I'll double check this later today. Stay tuned.

 

Sounds to me like you are doing a wonderful job of caring for your fish and tank by staying on top of everything. The set up sounds really interesting with the aquaponic plantings, could you post some pictures?

 

It's an older picture but it gives you the general idea of how it looks. A secondary filter pumps into the planter. The planter empties back into the tank. Clay pebbles are used inside the planter.

The pothos currently rooting on the top left and top right of the aquarium. I intend to grow them out and line the trim and wall with the vines.

Inside the tank is planted in such a way to break the line of sight to help establish territory. It needs a lot of work but I want to give the fish some time to relax before I start reaching in there a bunch more.

 

I don't think I follow this. Don't use ammonia and nitrite levels as an indicators for a potential upcoming water changes? Isn't this how you keep a tank properly monitored? Maby there needs to be more explanation because I don't follow this logic.

Nitrate is the end result but without monitoring the other 2 you don't know where your at or if you need a water change incase something other than nitrats us way out of wack. Keep in mind this is a brand new and cycled tank.

In a cycled tank any ammonia and nitrite are immediately processed by the bacteria. They should stay at 0 at all times. They should not be climbing higher over time.

The 0.25 reading is probably a false positive

 

In a cycled tank any ammonia and nitrite are immediately processed by the bacteria. They should stay at 0 at all times. They should not be climbing higher over time.

The 0.25 reading is probably a false positive

Hold tight. I'm taking some pictures of tap water vs my tank

Edit: no photo needed. Ammonia is identical to the tank, a close .25 in both cases. I was just being worried.

No nitrites from tap water so this tells me my bacteria is likely not a quite high enough to convert to nitrate immediately. But it does so I'll keep an eye and make sure nothing goes out of wack

 

It looks nice! Very streamlined and tidy.

 

In a cycled tank any ammonia and nitrite are immediately processed by the bacteria. They should stay at 0 at all times. They should not be climbing higher over time.

The 0.25 reading is probably a false positive

Thank you for clarification. I know exactly what you mean now and I've got a better understanding of what a proper cycle should look like. I'm probably a little off on having it properly cycled as I get a little nitrites but I also get nitrates so it's just a matter of time before there is enough bacteria to handle the bioload. I'll keep an eye on nitrates and casually monitor ammonia and nitrite for peice of mind

 

my opinion you can step back from the water changes, but do not step back from water quality monitoring, you should see zeros for Ammonia and Nitrites, not .25s occasionally. if the cycle is complete and the bacteria built up for the stock level, it should be smooth zeros and just building nitrates at best, but with your plants, those should be getting removed also.

i think you stocked too quickly and the nitrifying bacteria is catching up with the waste, which should be monitored, but it's not necessarily bad, you just might get a spike until your colony grows to catch up to the load. I'd say you have a decent handle on what's going on and the water changes aren't necessarily overkill, but might be unnecessary, your nitrifying bacteria should be doing the job and will, but not if you keep removing the food for them by water changing and keeping it "too clean".

I'm no chemist, water chemistry isn't my strong suit, but I didn't see you mention the pH, Ammonia is more troublesome at higher pH than it is at lower pH, if pH is running to the high side 7.6-7.8 it can be more toxic at lower levels,and it can be less toxic and build higher Ammonia level with less negative effect at 7.2-7.4 even 6.8.

your water changes might be necessary for pH management basically, I'm not sure how the plants will affect the pH.

 

It looks nice! Very streamlined and tidy.

Thank you. Took more brainpower than I care to admit . Lots of room to develop it into something more.

my opinion you can step back from the water changes, but do not step back from water quality monitoring, you should see zeros for Ammonia and Nitrites, not .25s occasionally. if the cycle is complete and the bacteria built up for the stock level, it should be smooth zeros and just building nitrates at best, but with your plants, those should be getting removed also.

i think you stocked too quickly and the nitrifying bacteria is catching up with the waste, which should be monitored, but it's not necessarily bad, you just might get a spike until your colony grows to catch up to the load. I'd say you have a decent handle on what's going on and the water changes aren't necessarily overkill, but might be unnecessary, your nitrifying bacteria should be doing the job and will, but not if you keep removing the food.

I'm no chemist, water chemistry isn't my strong suit, but I didn't see you mention the pH, Ammonia is more troublesome at higher pH than it is at lower pH, if Ph is running to the high side 7.6-7.8, it can be less toxic and build higher Ammonia level with less negative effect at 7.2-7.4,

your water changes might be necessary for pH management basically.

Thanks for this and providing your insight, this is exactly the direction my thoughts were heading after obtaining some additional information. I do have a better understanding of the cycle, how it works (is suppose to work) and develop. It's not a steep learning curve but its still new to me.

Ph is 7

Thanks everyone. And feel free to provide some insight or ask questions. I do enjoy the forum and chatting it up like this.

 

I disagree with a statement or two above that you should never see 0.25 ppm ammonia. For one thing, it's within the margin of error on the test. For a second thing, ammonia has to contact the bacteria before it can be converted, so there will likely always be a very small amount present, even if it's too low to be detected.

In any case, 0.25 ppm isn't enough to harm your fish.

 

I disagree with a statement or two above that you should never see 0.25 ppm ammonia. For one thing, it's within the margin of error on the test. For a second thing, ammonia has to contact the bacteria before it can be converted, so there will likely always be a very small amount present, even if it's too low to be detected.

In any case, 0.25 ppm isn't enough to harm your fish.

Thanks.

 

20 hours after a 40% water change
Ph 7.5
Ammonia .25
Nitrite .25
Nitrate 10

Tap water directly from the tap (in case someone is curious)
Ph 7
Ammonia .25
Nitrite 0 but can read a weak .25 at times.
Nitrate 0

Thoughts?
I will add to this by saying I don't mind frequently changing the water. The python has made it a breeze and when/if a second person is around to help its even easier.

 

How did you test the tap water? Did you let it sit overnight first?

.25 ammonia is truly nothing to worry about, unless it doesn't drop after weeks or it rises. Make sure you're using a strong light like natural light or a phone flashlight so you're actually getting a correct reading. I've been in the same position of worrying aimlessly only to find my room light was giving me a false reading.

 

So im just adding that info preemptively in case someone asks. I go straight from the tap to the tank after putting in the conditioner.

My reason main reason for posting is that I have some anxiety about not doing a water change. It's only been 20hrs since my last change the Ammonia is staying low, my nitrates are at 10 and I'd like my upper limit to be 20 as I've read the German blue rams are sensitive. Just worried and using the forum as an outlet to hear from others and gain some additional understanding.

I will eventually plant something extra in the planter to counter nitrate rise but only after I have my current cycle timed out.

 

Ah okay I see! For a correct reading on tap water, it's advised to let a tub of tap water sit overnight with a lid on, then test it the next morning. I can't remember exactly why this is, but I think it has something to do with the toxins that are released by trapped air? I dunno!

Anxiety unfortunately is a mega pain in the butt. I for one can tell you that with fish keeping especially, it'll bug you non stop over and over and over.. until you convince yourself that everything is okay. You're doing more than enough for the fish. Fish are always producing waste from the very second they start breathing in the tank. Even if ammonia is too low to be detected, it's still there and nothing we can do will change that. Take a deep breath and try to be reasonable with yourself.

Wishing you the best

 

Stay cool my friend stay cool. Water changes are important but balancing tanks is partially about letting them do what they do. Keep checking and let the BB grow!

 

Ah okay I see! For a correct reading on tap water, it's advised to let a tub of tap water sit overnight with a lid on, then test it the next morning. I can't remember exactly why this is, but I think it has something to do with the toxins that are released by trapped air? I dunno!

Anxiety unfortunately is a mega pain in the butt. I for one can tell you that with fish keeping especially, it'll bug you non stop over and over and over.. until you convince yourself that everything is okay. You're doing more than enough for the fish. Fish are always producing waste from the very second they start breathing in the tank. Even if ammonia is too low to be detected, it's still there and nothing we can do will change that. Take a deep breath and try to be reasonable with yourself.

Wishing you the best

So 10 nitrates in 20 hours is fine and another 16hrs should be perfectly OK. .

 

So 10 nitrates in 20 hours is fine and another 16hrs should be perfectly OK. .

I think you're over estimating nitrates. 20 ppm nitrates is not high whatsoever and neither is 10 ppm. It wont hurt your fish in any way shape or form. Fish are especially tolerable to nitrates, and can live in very high levels with little to no problems, There is another thread on here that Sparky Jones started where some people in the comments discussed this more.

For the sake of anxiety, grab yourself a floater plant and your nitrates will stay very "low."

Edit: Nitrates also don't go up by large amounts over night. It takes time. Even without a months water change I would go out on a limb and say your nitrates would still be at an acceptable level. Back when I first started I was doing monthly changes and my nitrates never rose above 5 ppm.

 

I think you're over estimating nitrates. 20 ppm nitrates is not high whatsoever and neither is 10 ppm. It wont hurt your fish in any way shape or form. Fish are especially tolerable to nitrates, and can live in very high levels with little to no problems, There is another thread on here that Sparky Jones started where some people in the comments discussed this more.

For the sake of anxiety, grab yourself a floater plant and your nitrates will stay very "low."

Edit: Nitrates also don't go up by large amounts over night. It takes time. Even without a months water change I would go out on a limb and say your nitrates would still be at an acceptable level. Back when I first started I was doing monthly changes and my nitrates never rose above 5 ppm.

That just kind of brings up the question of how I hit 10 in 20hrs. But I'll chill out until morning lol.

 

I'm a little confused lol. You should always have nitrate in a cycled tank. What was the level befire adding fish? 10 ppm is a pretty normal number for a cycled tank to have, especially depending on the stocking and the bioload they are producing. If you stocked too quickly then this number will jump up because more ammonia and nitrite is being produced and therefore more nitrate is needed to consume them and keep those levels low. In a balanced tanks nitrates will usually never jump up overnight like that. With a stocking like yours, 10 ppm nitrate is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about.

 

yeah, nothing wrong with monitoring, just resist the urge to waterchange until it hits you nitrate cut off.
Realistically speaking, if you do a waterchange at 10ppm nitrates of 20%, you'll have 8 nitrates left.

if you wait for 20ppm, and you change 20% that will drop to 16.

You will drive yourself mad chasing nitrates down to 10 or 20 in my opinion, and because of the aquaponics, you kind of need them for the plants, the plants should be doing that.

I know seems really wrong, but you kind of have to let it ride, keep an eye on it and let it push your comfort zone, the ammonia and nitrite is the problem, the nitrates can kind of get up there (my fish in one tank are surviving 400ppm right now, and I'm addressing it slowly because it's been so long and the pH has dropped to below 5)....but anyways the fish will acclimate up and back down and the plants will take the nitrates if it all works out. If it doesn't you can step in at 40, or 60 but I think at 20ppm you are aiming a little low. the plant will probably get you back to 10-20ppm as they grow and consume more and more. you might have to water change for nutrient depletion or add ferts...

I think that's a better angle to work, keep an eye on it and let it ride and make sure the water has the minerals and nutrients it needs for the plants.

Anyways just an opinion from some dude who let his nitrates run up to 1000ppm and bringing it back down and didn't kill a fish doing it... yet.

(not bragging about it, I'm embarrassed, it was out of being lazy) , but the nitrates aren't some ticking time bomb they are made out to be for the most part and if you have something that should absorb and remove them, then you should give them the room to do it's job, help if it's not working out, and otherwise just monitor the situation.

Best of luck to ya!

 

To answer one question above. After my fishless cycle my nitrates were a big ol 0. Ammonia and nitrite 0 as well. The tank cycled and the plants grew overnight soaking up nitrates I assume.

Now I'm just dealing with trying to NOT do unnecessary changes hahaha. I worry because the German blue ram is sensitive to nitrates and people who keep them at 20ppm-ish levels tend to lose them rather quickly. Or so I've read.

I'll go 36hrs this time and then I'll for 48 the next and build a comfert zone. I do however - and respectfully - not accept higher than 20ppm until I find more information that it's acceptable for my blue rams.

 

I respect the dedication you have for your fish, seriously. Frogbite, duckweed, red root floaters (I think), swords, and hornwort are all HUGE nitrate suckers if you're interested.

Edit: I did read up a bit on people mentioning keeping them in lower nitrates. Better safe than sorry IMO.

 

I respect the dedication you have for your fish, seriously. Frogbite, duckweed, red root floaters (I think), swords, and hornwort are all HUGE nitrate suckers if you're interested.

Edit: I did read up a bit on people mentioning keeping them in lower nitrates. Better safe than sorry IMO.

Could be misinformation about requiring low nitrates but I think I'll come to that conclusion over time.

Thanks for the plant suggestions.

 

With the German Blue rams, I'd be more concerned with temperature than nitrates. Get it up to 82° F or a little higher and keep it there.

 

With the German Blue rams, I'd be more concerned with temperature than nitrates. Get it up to 82° F or a little higher and keep it there.

Yes this is on the top of my list. Unfortunately this house is hit with covid this week so I've reached out to some people to see if i can get a delivery.

 

Yes this is on the top of my list. Unfortunately this house is hit with covid this week so I've reached out to some people to see if i can get a delivery.

Yes this is a definite "thing" for GBR. I forgot to turn my heater back on once and my Rams were acting like they were freezing to death. (It was still 76 degrees!....lol) They were all huddled up in the plants in the corner of the tank. Once it warmed back up they were fine and normal again. Yeah they like it warm that is for sure.

 

With the German Blue rams, I'd be more concerned with temperature than nitrates. Get it up to 82° F or a little higher and keep it there.

Yes this is on the top of my list. Unfortunately this house is hit with covid this week so I've reached out to some people to see if i can get a delivery.

Yes this is a definite "thing" for GBR. I forgot to turn my heater back on once and my Rams were acting like they were freezing to death. (It was still 76 degrees!....lol) They were all huddled up in the plants in the corner of the tank. Once it warmed back up they were fine and normal again. Yeah they like it warm that is for sure.

Fortunately I've seen no issues with running it at the bare minimum temp. But I can see the value in running the temp a bit warmer. All my fish can handle it so I may as well. Just waiting on getting one.

Yes this is a definite "thing" for GBR. I forgot to turn my heater back on once and my Rams were acting like they were freezing to death. (It was still 76 degrees!....lol) They were all huddled up in the plants in the corner of the tank. Once it warmed back up they were fine and normal again. Yeah they like it warm that is for sure.

What is your take on the nitrate levels? Keep them below 20ppm?

 

With the German Blue rams, I'd be more concerned with temperature than nitrates. Get it up to 82° F or a little higher and keep it there.

New heater coming today. Woohooo. I will start by going 1° higher an gradually bring it up over the next few days? I know temp hasn't been optimal but I still don't want to shock the tank

Aside from this I think I see some while around wimpys mouth but am unclear if it's natural skin color or something else. I'll observe behavior and how it looks over the next few days. I may need to remove charcoal from the filters and start treatment after warmer conditions are met.

Lastly, so far, the entire group us coloring up nicely.

 

New heater coming today. Woohooo. I will start by going 1° higher an gradually bring it up over the next few days? I know temp hasn't been optimal but I still don't want to shock the tank

Yes, bringing the temperature up one degree per day should be fine. However, keep a very close eye on it the first day or so. They often aren't calibrated correctly, so check it against a thermometer you trust, and don't assume it's heating to the temperature it's set at

Aside from this I think I see some while around wimpys mouth but am unclear if it's natural skin color or something else. I'll observe behavior and how it looks over the next few days. I may need to remove charcoal from the filters and start treatment after warmer conditions are met.

.Diagnosing illnesses isn't one of my strong points, so hopefully someone else will be able to help with that.

 

Yes, bringing the temperature up one degree per day should be fine. However, keep a very close eye on it the first day or so. They often aren't calibrated correctly, so check it against a thermometer you trust, and don't assume it's heating to the temperature it's set at



.Diagnosing illnesses isn't one of my strong points, so hopefully someone else will be able to help with that.

Thank you. Currently observing the unit as I bring it up 1°

Edit: 25°c to 26°c success based on the sticker thermometer. I will use an electronic thermometer tommorow as a secondary check before i shoot for 27°c in 1 or 2 days. 28°c (82f) is the upper limit for the rainbowfish so this is going to work out well.

Edit edit: I'll end up with a secondary post for diagnosing. I will make sure I'm not overreacting before doing so.


Edit edit edit lol:

https://imgur.com/a/eaLQrxX

He does this everytime it's turned on.