Unexpected German Ram Breeding!

Sfflores89

Hi everyone! I have a couple other threads because I have been dealing with cycling and some sick fish and I'm new at this. So in the midst of getting my 29 gallon aquarium to cycle I just discovered my male german blue ram and female gold ram have paired and laid/fertilized eggs. I have 4 diamond tetras, a pair of dwarf gouramis, and aside from the breeding pair there is also what I think is a female juvenile gold ram and a full grown male gold ram who are not yet paired. I noticed some small spots on one of my diamond tetras fins what I think is ich so I have the temp raised to 82 F and have 1 tsp salt added to the tank for every 3 gallons, it has been 5 days and I was just going to increase the salt but then I noticed the eggs! I read its very common for the eggs to get eaten but so far the parents are aggressively guarding the eggs. Any advice for a newbie and for my situation? Even though there could be ich in the tank should I keep the salt at its current concentration or slowly start removing it because it could dehydrate the eggs? Then next step, IF the fry hatch what should I be prepared for and how do I care for them? I can't move any of the fish because the tetras are super fast and it would stress them and the breeding pair and also my other tank has fish in it currently on medication for possible infections (I haven't received any replies yet so I'm just doing my best with treating the sick fish).

Currently my ammonia has been 0 for 2 days now and nitrite between 0 and 0.25 today! So hopefully the cycle is almost done. Nitrate is 10ppm. I dosed with some prime just to keep the water safe.
Screenshot_20220809-212954_Photos.jpg
 

Bwood22

Send a pic of the ich.
1 tsp of salt per 3 gallons at 82 degrees isn't enough to fight off ich if that is what it is.
But let's see a pic first.

As far as the rams...because of the tank mates, don't be surprised if they pull those eggs up after a day or 2.

But if they are breeding...you can expect them to do their thing about once or twice per month.

One day you will walk in and say: "oh there they go again."

I think your cycle is fine.. .dont overfeed, and don't disturb your filter for about 2 months.

Let's see this ich tho.
 

Sfflores89

Send a pic of the ich.
1 tsp of salt per 3 gallons at 82 degrees isn't enough to fight off ich if that is what it is.
But let's see a pic first.

As far as the rams...because of the tank mates, don't be surprised if they pull those eggs up after a day or 2.

But if they are breeding...you can expect them to do their thing about once or twice per month.

One day you will walk in and say: "oh there they go again."

I think your cycle is fine.. .dont overfeed, and don't disturb your filter for about 2 months.

Let's see this ich tho.
So I can't get my camera to focus clearly but it looks like a few small white specs on their fins, like a grain of salt, no other symptoms.

And you were right on the breeding. The eggs were mostly all gone this morning. My gouramis kept harassing them and evidently they might have given up and let them get eaten. My female gouramis belly looked double the size this morning, she's a piggy always hungry lol.
20220810_174231~2.jpg
 

Bwood22

So I can't get my camera to focus clearly but it looks like a few small white specs on their fins, like a grain of salt, no other symptoms.

And you were right on the breeding. The eggs were mostly all gone this morning. My gouramis kept harassing them and evidently they might have given up and let them get eaten. My female gouramis belly looked double the size this morning, she's a piggy always hungry lol.
20220810_174231~2.jpg
Yep...i didn't think those eggs would last.

You have ich my friend. Crank your heat up to 86-87 degrees and add 2 Tablespoons of sodium chloride (salt) per gallon.

You will see all the spots fall off within 24 hours then you need to gravel vac really good.

When you fill the tank back up replace the salt you removed and leave the tank alone for about a week.

Keep the temp up for about 2 weeks and cycle the salt out with water changes.

It's not bad now but it will get bad quickly...especially if your tank is at 82 right now.

Btw...I think Diamond Tetras are my favorite tetras....besides the Pacu.
 

Sfflores89

Will do, I appreciate the help! Will this disturb my cycling of the tank cranking the temp up and adding that much salt? Also I've only been lightly vacuuming just the debris I can see since my bb are still getting established, I was told to just lightly clean the substrate and do it in sections each time. I had a nitrite spike again today so I just did a 50% water change. Ammonia is still staying low/scant so that's encouraging.
 

Bwood22

Will do, I appreciate the help! Will this disturb my cycling of the tank cranking the temp up and adding that much salt? Also I've only been lightly vacuuming just the debris I can see since my bb are still getting established, I was told to just lightly clean the substrate and do it in sections each time. I had a nitrite spike again today so I just did a 50% water change. Ammonia is still staying low/scant so that's encouraging.
Hrmmmm....good info.

Where was your Nitrite?

Edit: The salt and heat wont mess with your cycle. Bacteria grows quicker in warmer water and the salt will actually help prevent nitrite poisoning.

Id still move forward with this strategy but you might have to do more frequent water changes.

You will want to keep your combined ammonia/nitrite levels below 1ppm.

So anything higher that 0.5ppm on each warrants a water change.

Cut back on the food and make sure that you don't have any rotting plant leaves or dead fish etc. Eliminate all sources of ammonia as much as possible.
 

Sfflores89

Hrmmmm....good info.

Where was your Nitrite?
Yesterday ammonia 0-0.25 today looked thr same, nitrite was 0.25 yesterday and today looked like 0.5-1ppm i have a hard time judging the result ill attach a pic

Edit: The salt and heat wont mess with your cycle. Bacteria grows quicker in warmer water and the salt will actually help prevent nitrite poisoning.
Id still move forward with this strategy but you might have to do more frequent water changes.

You will want to keep your combined ammonia/nitrite levels below 1ppm.

So anything higher that 0.5ppm on each warrants a water change.

Cut back on the food and make sure that you don't have any rotting plant leaves or dead fish etc. Eliminate all sources of ammonia as much as possible.
Thanks yes I will continue doing this. I removed all the dead plant debris today and I will start increasing the salt. What are your thoughts on ich-x? Would it be a good idea to add this as well? I saw it recommended by a few youtubers.
 

Bwood22

Yesterday ammonia 0-0.25 today looked thr same, nitrite was 0.25 yesterday and today looked like 0.5-1ppm i have a hard time judging the result ill attach a pic



Thanks yes I will continue doing this. I removed all the dead plant debris today and I will start increasing the salt. What are your thoughts on ich-x? Would it be a good idea to add this as well? I saw it recommended by a few youtubers.
It's a decent product...but i bet that you can cure it without meds. I have an unopened bottle of Ich-X in my cabinet that I've never had to use.
I found a few spots in my tank a few weeks ago on a hap that i brought home from a LFS.
I cleared it up in no time. Easy peasy.

I would try the med-free method first and see if it works. I bet it will.

Curing ich is like getting over a soar throat....


Sfflores89

I'm going to go ahead and assume that the best camera currently in your possession is built into your cellphone.

Am I right?

Better Fish Pics - Aquarium Article
 

Sfflores89

Yes I use my phone to take the pics. There are a couple spots on two of my tetras currently. The temp is raised to 86 F and increased the salt. Hopefully that will do it!

Could you check out my other thread if you don't mind? Nobody has responded and idk what to do. It's an issue in my other tank a 10 gallon. I think it's columnaris. Everything I've read says use kanaplex and if that doesn't work use kanaplex and furan 2 but the later has been discontinued and I just finished a week of kanaplex with little to no improvement.
It's a decent product...but i bet that you can cure it without meds. I have an unopened bottle of Ich-X in my cabinet that I've never had to use.
I found a few spots in my tank a few weeks ago on a hap that i brought home from a LFS.
I cleared it up in no time. Easy peasy.

I would try the med-free method first and see if it works. I bet it will.

Curing ich is like getting over a soar throat....


Sfflores89

I'm going to go ahead and assume that the best camera currently in your possession is built into your cellphone.

Am I right?

Better Fish Pics - Aquarium Article
Yes I use my phone to take the pics. There are a couple spots on two of my tetras currently. The temp is raised to 86 F and increased the salt. Hopefully that will do it!

Could you check out my other thread if you don't mind? Nobody has responded and idk what to do. It's an issue in my other tank a 10 gallon. I think it's columnaris. Everything I've read says use kanaplex and if that doesn't work use kanaplex and furan 2 but the later has been discontinued and I just finished a week of kanaplex with little to no improvement.
 

Sfflores89

Bwood22 one of my diamonds is breathing heavy today, hiding and not eating. I still see some spots on the others but they are acting happy and normal. Today ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 10ppm, temp 86 F and salt increased to 1.5 tbsp per gallon as of today, the salt is stressing the plants so I'm hoping this level of salt will be enough.

My other tank (10gallon) I did a medication dip which I've been doing with seachem paraguard and salt but I must have added too much because after 30 minutes I lost 4 fish, and the other 3 look stressed but are recovering. I will avoid doing that again. I decided to start up kanaplex again but this time I mixed in metroplex and garlic guard to their pellets. I feel terrible that I didn't notice in time that the dip was affecting them negatively
 

Bwood22

Dont add any more salt.

Are the spots dissapearing?

Read the article i linked you and try to take some clearer pictures.
 

Sfflores89

My female gourami has a spot and looks very pale now, I did just have the lights off and turned them on to get the pics. Some of my rams look pale. The diamond tetra came out of hiding but looks terrible (3rd pic). Could the paleness/stress be from the salt? Should I do a 30% water change to lower the salt? The tetra who was hiding does it look like something bacterial or could it be damage from the ich or injury from the tank cycling?
I just did a 20% water change to reduce salt and added a bubbler to increase O2. I vacuumed up most of the fish poop while I was doing that. Hopefully everyone looks less stressed in a few hours.
 

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Bwood22

That's not enough salt to bother those fish. The plants probably don't like it...but by now those ich spots should have fallen off at that temp.

Ich attacks the gills first, that could explain the heavy breathing. Higher temp and salt also lower dissolved oxygen levels in the water so adding an airstone was a good move.

I don't like seeing those exact same spots on the tail of that Diamond tetra. Where do you live? Are you in Australia by chance?

The uncycled tank definitely isn't helping the situation. Keep testing your water.

Keep changing your water...fresh water is going to be key to getting through this.

Also.. I'd consider other places to get fish too.
This is why a 2-4 week quarrantine is recommended you never know what you are bringing home and once you get this cleared up, you don't want to have to go through all of this again every time you get new fish.
 

Sfflores89

Yes, I think the most recent fish brought something into the tank. I think it was columnaris because I lost most of my serpae tetras back to back, but as soon as i suspected that I removed all the fish with symptoms to my other tank and did a water change. The stress of cycling definitely played a part but I think I'm at the end hopefully as ammonia and nitrite have been 0 or manageable.

My lfs are really good people and carry less sickly stock than other stores nearby. The problem is they have most of their freshwater stock combined in a community style tank so if there are any diseases there's no avoiding it. I thought it was fine because I had 3 serpae tetras from the week before from them who were doing well so I bought more.

The spots on the tails are still there, but I think there might be less. The one that was hiding all day yesterday his scales look dull so I am concerned about columnaris but at this temp it should have killed him by now or i would expect him to be worse off than yesterday. Also his breathing is much better and he's schooling with his friends again. It may just have been a lack of O2 that was stressing them because I was starting to see some detritus worms in the water column.

I'm in the USA

I really appreciate your help, this has been stressful. A lot of it comes down to my mistakes that weakened my fish but I'm hoping they will all pull through.
 

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