Two ill Ranchu goldfish

Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 60L
How long has the tank been running? 11 days
Does it have a filter? Fluval 107 Canister Filter
Does it have a heater? No
What is the water temperature? 22C
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
1 orange Ranchu
1 silver (red cap) Ranchu

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Weekly. Last change 5 days ago.
How much of the water do you change? 30%
What do you use to treat your water? Interpet Bioactive Tapsafe Plus
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Vacuum the sand surface as well as the water.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? No. Only put water and treatment (see above) in tank for 2-3 weeks before adding fish.
What do you use to test the water? API Freshwater Master Test Kit (although expired 9/2018)
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 0.50 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 80 ppm
pH: 7.6

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? One a day
How much do you feed your fish? Two small pinches
What brand of food do you feed your fish? HIKARI Staple Baby Pellet
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? No.

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? Two weeks.
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? Two weeks.
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Orange fish - looks like an ulcer. Silver fish - sitting in corner of tank for long periods.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Added 1 tbsp salt per 2 gallons of water - according to an article I read, but I think I misdiagnosed.
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? Yes, Orange had the ulcer but it was small.
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? The ulcer on Orange looks to have grown in size significantly. Every day, I now see Silver sitting in the same place for longer - didn't do that in the first few days.

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

Orange - I'm quite concerned about what looks like an ulcer on left side near rear fin. Was small but noticeable on arrival - but now has increased to about 3-4 times. Some of its flesh is hanging off and is missing scales. I see some small pits (imagine a tiny fine mesh) where its scales and flesh were. Not being sure of what it was / is, I found an article about adding salt for bacterial infections and so added 1 tbsp salt per 2 gallons 5 days ago, but now ulcer looks worse. Had clear thin poo, but now pooing normal.

Silver - On arrival it wasn't as nearly as energetic as Orange, but put that down to character. However, everyday now it sits in the corner for long periods of time (I'm guessing 15 mins or more) resting on a plant pot. At first I thought it was finding shelter from the filter current, but it does that when I've turned the filter off too. It's poo is clear and thin - was on arrival too.




Can anyone help me confirm the illness and suggest treatments / courses of action. Thanks in advance.

 

Hey! Sorry to hear about your fishies...
I have two goldies too and struggled at the start with an uncycled tank. Bottom sitting is often a sign of bad water quality and ulcers might be bacterial as you said but maintaining perfect water is essential for healing anything. Here is what I would do for now...

1) As your tank is uncycled and your API test kit is out of date, I would assume that your parameters are off. What I would do, is start a routine of daily water changes. If not daily, every two days. You need to make sure you use your conditioner. If at all possible, I would upgarde and buy some Seachem Prime or another Water conditioner that neutralises ammonia. (If you do get a hold of this product, I can tell you about how to use it effectively).

2) What salt are you using? Make sure it is aquarium salt! Not table salt as it might have anti-caking agents which is a no-no. Salt will be good as it should help with skin problems as it will help thicken their slime coat.

3) Also up to you but if/when you get a chance, upgrade your tank. 60liters is on the small side for goldies. The bigger the better. Plus makes it a lot easier to maintain clean water.


I replied also in the hopes this post gets bumped up and someone can help with the ulcer problem. I’ve heard of people dabbing the ulcer with hydrogen peroxide and giving salt baths, having never done it myself I cannot advise.

and for the poop problem.... as you got them from a pet store, it is very likely they have some kind of parasite hence the stringy poop. Could also be stress from illness. Sounds like a lot of things at once. Poor them and poor you.

If I were you, my first plan of action would be cranking up my water changes to a daily routine. Fresh water does miracles.

 

I agree with the above post, water changes will be your friend 80ppm of nitrates is high, as your tank isn’t fully cycled. Fresh water daily will be key until it is properly cycled. I would recommend upping from 30% to 50% as goldfish produce a lot of waste, especially in a smaller tank. I see it says you feed two smal pinches of food, you want to make sure they are eating all of the food and that there is no uneaten food left in the tank. This will cause your water to go bad. Only feed enough that can be eaten in 1 or 2 mins.

 

Thanks Aleeks for your tips and advice and Ksway too. Noted about the water quality and I'll do more frequent water changes. I regret not having reading about the nitrogen cycle earlier - great simple guide on this site BTW.

I am using API aquarium salt which I managed to get through Amazon fairly quickly. At the time I was tempted to use rock salt. Fortunately lots of advice on the web strongly advising not to, as you mentioned.

Orange's ulcer is getting bigger and more flesh is hanging off! I also found out about the hydrogen peroxide dabbing - one article suggests cleaning twice a day. Out of desperation (due to lock-down, etc) and not being able to source supplies and quickly, I found some contact lens cleaner around the house which contains hydrogen peroxide and decided to use that to clean Orange's ulcer. I discovered that most hobbyists use Clove Oil to anaesthetise the fish to remove the infected tissue, I don't have any of that...plus Orange is fairly small, about 4-5cm head to tail and don't feel confident about doing fish surgery !

I was able to gently grab Orange in a net and keep its gills under water whilst using a small cotton swab stick to cleanse using the contact lens solution. Hopefully it will make some difference in addition to the water changes.

Apparently ulcers may be caused by Flukes, so I bought some Fluke-Solve. I'm still waiting for that to arrive and it's been a while. I found some old Interpet Anti Internal Bacteria which claims to work for ulcers due to bacterial infection , so I've put that in the tank for now.

Silver is sitting for longer and longer - it seemed to be in its corner for hours today. I noticed it has a very odd things appearing and disappearing out of it's mouth when it is breathing, like 3 joined miniature short tentacles. I tried to get a picture, but it was too blurred. Still, when it wants to move, no problems. When it swims, I have seen it wriggles / jerk side to side madly about for a few seconds. It has been like this for days now. Will see how it gets on the the water changes, salt and Anti-bac treatment for now.

 

Mmmh sounds pretty bad but well done done for swabbing the guy! Where are you based? Have you considered asking a group on facebook? Sometimes you get more suggestions. Warning- you will get pulled up for your tank size but I’m sure someone can help you identify the ailments.


Have you considered maybe anchor worms? They can cause ulcers and what you descibe in the mouth of the other little guy. I am not sure to be honest. Wish someone more experienced would step in!

If you are using meds, make sure you take out any carbon as that will just absorb the meds. Also don’t do desperate cocktails- much better to let the meds run their course and maintaining a nice clean tank. The wrong meds can sometimes do more harm than good.

 

Keep the tank as clean as possible. I'm not sure try contact cleaner was a good call, If I what other chemicals if might contain. Doing go too crazy with the meds and burn your fish either, otherwise you seem to be doing a good job based on the situation.

 

Thanks all for your support guys. I'm based in the south of the UK.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying NervermindIgnoreM. The contact lens solution is totally out of desperation. I watched Orange's ulcer grow to 4 times the size and it's hard not doing anything. The Salt didn't seem to be having much effect. It's either the contact lens solution and or the Antibac that seems to have stopped or slowed down the ulcer growth.

RE: the 'coctail' of treatments. I'll wait for the Antibac to finish and then reassess if I should try Fluke-Solve.

Silver might be skin hanging out his mouth or might be worms. I'm puzzled by what it could be. I thought it might be gotten mouth at one point but doesn't look like it. It still likes to sit for long periods.

 

Thanks all for your support guys. I'm based in the south of the UK.

Yeah, I understand what you are saying NervermindIgnoreM. The contact lens solution is totally out of desperation. I watched Orange's ulcer grow to 4 times the size and it's hard not doing anything. The Salt didn't seem to be having much effect. It's either the contact lens solution and or the Antibac that seems to have stopped or slowed down the ulcer growth.

RE: the 'coctail' of treatments. I'll wait for the Antibac to finish and then reassess if I should try Fluke-Solve.

Silver might be skin hanging out his mouth or might be worms. I'm puzzled by what it could be. I thought it might be gotten mouth at one point but doesn't look like it. It still likes to sit for long periods.

I'm so sorry about your poor fish, what antibac are you using? Just curious. I'm glad you've made at least a little progress. If the salt isn't doing anything, if you haven't already go ahead and stop. For worms you can soak their food is espom salt mixed until dissolved in warm tank water for a few minutes before feeding. I hope your fishies are going to heal quickly!

 

So so glad you are seeing some improvement! I am also in the UK and I am in a FB group called Goldfish Keepers UK- there are some knowledgeable folks on there. If you have FB I would definitely advise posting on there! They will definitely say your tank is small but you can message the admins and they will help you out. My tank is too small too but they have helped me out a great deal before.

 

I'm so sorry about your poor fish, what antibac are you using? Just curious.

Interpet Anti Internal Bacteria.

Also thanks for the Epsom Salts tips too.

So so glad you are seeing some improvement! I am also in the UK and I am in a FB group called Goldfish Keepers UK- there are some knowledgeable folks on there. If you have FB I would definitely advise posting on there! They will definitely say your tank is small but you can message the admins and they will help you out. My tank is too small too but they have helped me out a great deal before.

Ok, I'll take a look, thanks

 

How did your two lil ones pull through? are they getting better? x

 

Thanks for asking Aleeks. Sadly, I lost both of them last week. Feel badly for the two fish and that I wasn't able to cure them. I think I was in part responsible for their illness, though I don't think they were fully healthy to begin with. Certainly not Orange, which had a noticeable ulcer upon arrival (through the post).

At best I think I may have stalled Orange's ulcer getting bigger for a while but ultimately it grew to a huge size and it became pine-coned... Silver's sitting at the bottom or a quiet corner never stopped and I never did figure out what was coming out its mouth - skin or some parasite.

After the last update here, I repeated the internal bacteria treatment. With Silver not seeming to get better and the Oranges ulcer seemingly not healing, after a water change I added a product called Fluke Solve - I thought it might be a parasite. Unfortunately this didn't seem to help and might have made things worse.

 

Tank

What is the water volume of the tank? 60L
How long has the tank been running? 11 days
Does it have a filter? Fluval 107 Canister Filter
Does it have a heater? No
What is the water temperature? 22C
What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
1 orange Ranchu
1 silver (red cap) Ranchu

Maintenance
How often do you change the water? Weekly. Last change 5 days ago.
How much of the water do you change? 30%
What do you use to treat your water? Interpet Bioactive Tapsafe Plus
Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water? Vacuum the sand surface as well as the water.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish? No. Only put water and treatment (see above) in tank for 2-3 weeks before adding fish.
What do you use to test the water? API Freshwater Master Test Kit (although expired 9/2018)
What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.

Ammonia: 0.50 ppm
Nitrite: 0 ppm
Nitrate: 80 ppm
pH: 7.6

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish? One a day
How much do you feed your fish? Two small pinches
What brand of food do you feed your fish? HIKARI Staple Baby Pellet
Do you feed frozen or freeze-dried foods? No.

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish? Two weeks.
How long ago did you first notice these symptoms? Two weeks.
In a few words, can you explain the symptoms? Orange fish - looks like an ulcer. Silver fish - sitting in corner of tank for long periods.
Have you started any treatment for the illness? Added 1 tbsp salt per 2 gallons of water - according to an article I read, but I think I misdiagnosed.
Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase? Yes, Orange had the ulcer but it was small.
How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all? The ulcer on Orange looks to have grown in size significantly. Every day, I now see Silver sitting in the same place for longer - didn't do that in the first few days.

Explain your emergency situation in detail. (Please give a clear explanation of what is going on, include details from the beginning of the illness leading up to now)

Orange - I'm quite concerned about what looks like an ulcer on left side near rear fin. Was small but noticeable on arrival - but now has increased to about 3-4 times. Some of its flesh is hanging off and is missing scales. I see some small pits (imagine a tiny fine mesh) where its scales and flesh were. Not being sure of what it was / is, I found an article about adding salt for bacterial infections and so added 1 tbsp salt per 2 gallons 5 days ago, but now ulcer looks worse. Had clear thin poo, but now pooing normal.

Silver - On arrival it wasn't as nearly as energetic as Orange, but put that down to character. However, everyday now it sits in the corner for long periods of time (I'm guessing 15 mins or more) resting on a plant pot. At first I thought it was finding shelter from the filter current, but it does that when I've turned the filter off too. It's poo is clear and thin - was on arrival too. View attachment 687136View attachment 687137View attachment 687138View attachment 687139
Can anyone help me confirm the illness and suggest treatments / courses of action. Thanks in advance.

thats bad. If the bottem is getting black theres not much hope, my fishies died with similar symptoms

 

thats bad. If the bottem is getting black theres not much hope, my fishies died with similar symptoms

Yeah, the ulcer spread all over the rear of the fish and ultimately became black at the rear.

Appreciate all the support on this forum and got some good tips for the future.