10 Gallon Tank Two goldfish laying on bottom of tank

RareFeeshCollector

i have a thread already started where i posted about this so im not sure if i should post them again here or just link to that post in my other thread? here is the start of the posts of them laying around and my tank parameters after a full day after a 50% water change along with my default tap water pH and Ammonia levels: New 10 gallon setup - help | Aquarium Stocking Forum | 511520

Emergency Template:

Tank
What is the water volume of the tank?
10G

How long has the tank been running?
2 days

Does it have a filter?
2

Does it have a heater?
no

What is the water temperature?
68-70

What is the entire stocking of this tank? (Please list all fish and inverts.)
2 goldfish
3 corys
1 nerite
1 hygro willow
1 elodea

Maintenance
How often do you change the water?
changed did a 50% yesterday and just did a 50% today.

How much of the water do you change?
50%

What do you use to treat your water?
Aqueon water conditioner.

Do you vacuum the substrate or just the water?
only the water so far.

*Parameters - Very Important
Did you cycle your tank before adding fish?
no but i put in the filter that i had with them for a week from their previous bowl.

What do you use to test the water?
API Master Test Kit

What are your parameters? We need to know the exact numbers, not just “fine” or “safe”.
i posted visuals from the strip and vial test but ill put them here as well.

Ammonia: 0-.25
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
pH: 7.6-7.8

Feeding
How often do you feed your fish?
two times a day

How much do you feed your fish?
very small pinch or flake or just a few

What brand of food do you feed your fish?
API goldfish flakes
Omega One goldfish pellets small

Do you feed frozen?
no

Do you feed freeze-dried foods?
no

Illness & Symptoms
How long have you had this fish?
3 weeks?

How long ago did you first notice these symptoms?
after the first water change(50%) yesterday.

In a few words, can you explain the symptoms?
they started laying around upright on the ground most of the time. sporadic bursts around the tank.

Have you started any treatment for the illness?
no

Was your fish physically ill or injured upon purchase?
not that i know of

How has its behavior and appearance changed, if at all?
they look the same to me other than just laying around on the ground.

Explain your emergency situation in detail.
i am helping someone who thought it was a good idea to keep goldfish in a bowl. then they decided it was a good idea to put them into a 10G tank with 3 corys, a snail and two plants. only had the tank going for 3 days. i did a 50% change on the 2nd day, noticed a few hours after that one goldfish started laying around. then the other one started it. i just did another 50% water change today, which is the 3rd day. i will post new parameters after i test again in a bit.
 

Arkinsor

Well, first of all your tank is overstocked, infact just 1 goldfish in 10 gallon isn't considered a good choice for they produce a lot of waste, which deteriorates the water quality very fast. And lastly doing frequent water changes isn't healthy if the tank is newly setup and time should be given to the fishes to get accustomed to the new tank. Anyways 10 gallons is too small a place for goldfishes to live in, so I'd suggest re- homeing them.
 

RareFeeshCollector

Well, first of all your tank is overstocked, infact just 1 goldfish in 10 gallon isn't considered a good choice for they produce a lot of waste, which deteriorates the water quality very fast. And lastly doing frequent water changes isn't healthy if the tank is newly setup and time should be given to the fishes to get accustomed to the new tank. Anyways 10 gallons is too small a place for goldfishes to live in, so I'd suggest re- homeing them.

ya thats understandable and its not my setup, i just tried to save them from the bowl they were in. they wont be able to be rehomed in the near future. is the fact that its too small of a space the reason they are laying down? i mean theyve been super lively from the bowl days(2 weeks) to the first day in the tank. only changed after a 50% change yesterday.
 

Dunk2

Well, first of all your tank is overstocked, infact just 1 goldfish in 10 gallon isn't considered a good choice for they produce a lot of waste, which deteriorates the water quality very fast. And lastly doing frequent water changes isn't healthy if the tank is newly setup and time should be given to the fishes to get accustomed to the new tank. Anyways 10 gallons is too small a place for goldfishes to live in, so I'd suggest re- homeing them.
Frequent water changes need to be done on a newly setup tank that isn’t cycled. They’re not optional in this situation.

RareFeeshCollector Beyond the water changes you’re already doing, I don’t have much to add.

You’re temperature matching the water added and using a dechlorinator?

Any idea what the water parameters were before the water change?

I would suggest using Seachem Prime as a water conditioner and the API Master Test kit to test. . . Test strips aren’t the most accurate IMO. Prime will help protect your fish until the tank is fully cycled (but it isn’t a substitute for frequent water changes).
 

otterblue

Well, first of all your tank is overstocked, infact just 1 goldfish in 10 gallon isn't considered a good choice for they produce a lot of waste, which deteriorates the water quality very fast. And lastly doing frequent water changes isn't healthy if the tank is newly setup and time should be given to the fishes to get accustomed to the new tank. Anyways 10 gallons is too small a place for goldfishes to live in, so I'd suggest re- homeing them.

I don't know about not doing water changes, but I do agree the tank is too small. Not so bad temporarily if the goldfish are tiny right now, but they'll still produce a lot of waste, necessitating water changes*.

Also, your water temperature is too cold for most corydoras.

That being said, it's nice that you're trying to save them from an even smaller bowl.


EDIT: *more frequent water changes
 

BlockHead1981

Looks like you are cycling your tank with fish or you mini cycled which is really bad for fish. You should have some Nitrate. 10 gallon is way too small, but if it's all you have for now perform 50% water changes and add decholrinator everyday. Do it for a couple of weeks then stop with the dechorinating and check your water like 2-3 days later. Dechlorinator can give you bad readings. I would highly suggest a new tank, 30 gallon for 2 fancies goldfish, and bottom feeders can become a snack and kill your GF since they have spines. Your temps are ok, but you really should of cycled your tank before adding fish
 

RareFeeshCollector

You’re temperature matching the water added and using a dechlorinator?

ya the tap water is 66.5-67.5, which is around the room temp, and the tank is around 68-70.

Any idea what the water parameters were before the water change?

i dont know what they were before the change but my tap water is are:
pH: 7.6
High Range pH: 8.4
Ammonia: 0
i only checked these after i saw my tank parameters were high on the Ammonia side.

I would suggest using Seachem Prime as a water conditioner and the API Master Test kit to test. . . Test strips aren’t the most accurate IMO.

i am using the API Master Test Kit and i posted pictures of test vials in this thread: New 10 gallon setup - help | Aquarium Stocking Forum | 511520 which is where i got the parameters posted in the Emergency Template above. im about to test again after the 50% water change i did a couple hours ago.
 

Dunk2

I don't know about not doing water changes, but I do agree the tank is too small. Not so bad temporarily if the goldfish are tiny right now, but they'll still produce a lot of waste, necessitating water changes.

Also, your water temperature is too cold for most corydoras.

That being said, it's nice that you're trying to save them from an even smaller bowl.
No one would disagree there are problems with the stocking of this tank.

But given the OP’s situation, the best we can do is attempt to help him through it.
Looks like you are cycling your tank with fish or you mini cycled which is really bad for fish. You should have some Nitrate. 10 gallon is way too small, but if it's all you have for now perform 50% water changes and add decholrinator everyday. Do it for a couple of weeks then stop with the dechorinating and check your water like 2-3 days later. Dechlorinator can give you bad readings. I would highly suggest a new tank, 30 gallon for 2 fancies goldfish, and bottom feeders can become a snack and kill your GF since they have spines. Your temps are ok, but you really should of cycled your tank before adding fish
A fish-in cycle is not necessarily a bad thing.
 

RareFeeshCollector

Also, your water temperature is too cold for most corydoras.
i was told that if i have to keep them in the same living environment for the near future that 72-73 would be fine for them both.

Your temps are ok, but you really should of cycled your tank before adding fish

i didnt really have a choice. they were in a fishbowl for a couple weeks that had direct water changes every few days with nothing else. it got upgraded with an aqueon 3g HOB filter for about a week. thats all i had to work with.
 

Dunk2

ya the tap water is 66.5-67.5, which is around the room temp, and the tank is around 68-70.



i dont know what they were before the change but my tap water is are:
pH: 7.6
High Range pH: 8.4
Ammonia: 0
i only checked these after i saw my tank parameters were high on the Ammonia side.



i am using the API Master Test Kit and i posted pictures of test vials in this thread: New 10 gallon setup - help | Aquarium Stocking Forum | 511520 which is where i got the parameters posted in the Emergency Template above. im about to test again after the 50% water change i did a couple hours ago.
If this was my tank, I’d attempt to match the water a bit closer.

Your pH would be 8.4. Once the low range maxes out, you only need to use the high range test. When you say the ammonia was high, how high?

You took these fish from someone else? Or started caring for them for someone else?
 

BlockHead1981

No one would disagree there are problems with the stocking of this tank.

But given the OP’s situation, the best we can do is help him through it.

A fish-in cycle is not necessarily a bad thing.
Agree, but unless you have no other choice I can't think of a good reason :eek:
 

RareFeeshCollector

Your pH would be 8.4. Once the low range maxes out, you only need to use the high range test. When you say the ammonia was high, how high?
these were the pH tests and Ammonia tests before i did a 50% water change today:


Screenshot_20211023_183517.png
Screenshot_20211023_183559.png
Screenshot_20211023_183623.png

these were the tests of my tap water:


Screenshot_20211023_190538.png
Screenshot_20211023_190556.png
Screenshot_20211023_190616.png

You took these fish from someone else? Or started caring for them for someone else?

i live with the person who thought a bowl was fine. i went down the rabbit hole.
 

Dunk2

these were the pH tests and Ammonia tests before i did a 50% water change today:


Screenshot_20211023_183517.png
Screenshot_20211023_183559.png
Screenshot_20211023_183623.png



i live with the person who thought a bowl was fine. i went down the rabbit hole.
So you’re using the same water the other person used?

No level of ammonia is good, but that doesn’t look terrible. And that test was done a day or so after putting them in the tank or after a previous large water change? I’m just trying to get a sense about how much ammonia is being produced.
 

BlockHead1981

Do you plan on keeping those Goldfish? What type of Goldfish are they? Fancy, Common? Either way you would need a bigger tank but a much bigger tank if they are Common GF. If you don't plan on keeping them long term you can always give them away to a local fish shop. I you do decide to keep them this is a great place for advise, just get ready to spend some money :D
 

RareFeeshCollector

So you’re using the same water the other person used?

no, the only thing that came from the bowl are the 2 gold fish and the small aqueon 3g hob filter.

No level of ammonia is good, but that doesn’t look terrible. And that test was done a day or so after putting them in the tank or after a previous large water change? I’m just trying to get a sense about how much ammonia is being produced.

the timeline is day 1 in aquarium, day 2 50% water change, day 3 Test and then another 50% water change. today is day 3. i just did another test a couple hours after the day 3 water change that i just did:

(pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate)


Screenshot_20211023_215101.png
Screenshot_20211023_215125.png
Screenshot_20211023_215148.png
Screenshot_20211023_215210.png

Do you plan on keeping those Goldfish? What type of Goldfish are they? Fancy, Common? Either way you would need a bigger tank but a much bigger tank if they are Common GF. If you don't plan on keeping them long term you can always give them away to a local fish shop. I you do decide to keep them this is a great place for advise, just get ready to spend some money :D

they arent mine though, i feel like they are. i was told they were probably split tails in my initial thread on this post: New 10 gallon setup - help | Aquarium Stocking Forum | 511520

here they are on the floor after the lights went out for the evening:


Screenshot_20211023_220054.png
 

Dunk2

no, the only thing that came from the bowl are the 2 gold fish and the small aqueon 3g hob filter.



the timeline is day 1 in aquarium, day 2 50% water change, day 3 Test and then another 50% water change. today is day 3. i just did another test a couple hours after the day 3 water change that i just did:

(pH, Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate)


Screenshot_20211023_215101.png
Screenshot_20211023_215125.png
Screenshot_20211023_215148.png
Screenshot_20211023_215210.png



they arent mine though, i feel like they are. i was told there were probably split tails here: New 10 gallon setup - help | Aquarium Stocking Forum | 511520

here they are on the floor after the lights went out for the evening:


Screenshot_20211023_220054.png

Sorry, I meant that you’re using the same source/tap water that would have been used previously? The source/tap water hasn’t changed since you started caring for the fish?

I’d suggest you continue testing daily and do water changes to keep the ammonia level below 0.50 ppm. As I said previously, I’d also suggest getting some Seachem Prime to use as your water conditioner.

Are the fish eating?
 

RareFeeshCollector

Sorry, I meant that you’re using the same source/tap water that would have been used previously? The source/tap water hasn’t changed since you started caring for the fish?

ya the water hasnt changed at all and when they were in the fishbowl life they didnt get anything other than fresh water w/o conditioning and the small hob filter after the first week.

I’d suggest you continue testing daily and do water changes to keep the ammonia level below 0.50 ppm. As I said previously, I’d also suggest getting some Seachem Prime to use as your water conditioner.

ok ill look into that. i also appear to have top fin water conditioner as well.

Are the fish eating?

they were eating until this evening after the second water change.
 

Dunk2

ya the water hasnt changed at all and when they were in the fishbowl life they didnt get anything other than fresh water w/o conditioning and the small hob filter after the first week.



ok ill look into that. i also appear to have top fin water conditioner as well.



they were eating until this evening after the second water change.
Although it shouldn’t be used as a substitute for water changes, Prime will help to detoxify low levels of ammonia until your tank gets cycled.

You likely already know this, but be careful not to overfeed them.

Good luck and keep this post updated to let us know how they’re doing. For whatever it’s worth, I haven’t ruled out the new tank/environment or even an injury as being the reason for the behavior you’re seeing. But whatever the case, keep doing the testing and water changes you’ve been doing!
 

RareFeeshCollector

You likely already know this, but be careful not to overfeed them.

i try to keep an eye on what they eat in a session and to go about that amount. i had introduced a single hikari algae wafer to the tank and there were a few nibbles but not much so i pulled it after a couple hours when it fully expanded and before it went to mush in the substrate.

Good luck and keep this post updated to let us know how they’re doing. For whatever it’s worth, I haven’t ruled out the new tank/environment or even an injury as being the reason for the behavior you’re seeing. But whatever the case, keep doing the testing and water changes you’ve been doing!

i will post back in the morning. i really appreciate you and everyone elses advice and time here. thanks!
 

RareFeeshCollector

Although it shouldn’t be used as a substitute for water changes, Prime will help to detoxify low levels of ammonia until your tank gets cycled.

after i get the prime conditioner today im going to do a water change but i have a couple questions. first, do i add it with the new water like the other conditioner i was using? second, should i be using regular tap water? the tap water ive been using is softened tap water. maybe i could try the city water before it hits the softener? though, they seemed fine with the fresh from tap(softened) when they were in the bowl.
 

BlockHead1981

after i get the prime conditioner today im going to do a water change but i have a couple questions. first, do i add it with the new water like the other conditioner i was using? second, should i be using regular tap water? the tap water ive been using is softened tap water. maybe i could try the city water before it hits the softener? though, they seemed fine with the fresh from tap(softened) when they were in the bowl.
You should test your water. Assuming it's acceptable then use the Prime Conditioner. Just keep in mind that Prime Conditioner can skew your API test results. It's a thing
 

Dunk2

after i get the prime conditioner today im going to do a water change but i have a couple questions. first, do i add it with the new water like the other conditioner i was using? second, should i be using regular tap water? the tap water ive been using is softened tap water. maybe i could try the city water before it hits the softener? though, they seemed fine with the fresh from tap(softened) when they were in the bowl.
The directions for Prime suggest dosing based on the entire volume of the tank, no matter how much water you’re changing.

Some folks bypass their softeners, but if your fish were ok with the softened water, I’d continue to use it.

How are the fish today?

P.S. As best I can tell, Prime has never affected my test results. I’ve been using it for years. Not saying it doesn’t affect anyone’s results, but not mine.
 

RareFeeshCollector

Some folks bypass their softeners, but if your fish were ok with the softened water, I’d continue to use it.

im not going to do a master test till right before i change out the water but here are strip tests of the tank, city, and softened tap water:

(tank, city, softened tap)


Screenshot_20211024_145335.png

Screenshot_20211024_145356.png

Screenshot_20211024_145419.png

the city water is harder(60-120) and has a lower pH(7.5)
the softened tap is softer(30) and more basic(8+)

there were a lot of changes from the fishbowl to the tank but im just not sure its the ammonia. they were in a very small bowl and the ammonia levels had to have been extremely high for being in there for 2 to 3 days between water changes all while seemingly "fine". i realize this doesnt make sense. at what point would a hail mary be warranted and recreate their previous conditions and step forward from there?

How are the fish today?

about the same. one guy is laying around still and the other has moments but has been spending time around the top of the tank but doesnt look like hes gasping for air or anything. when they do move it looks like they struggle with the small filter currents.

the corys at the most lively ive seen them tbh. at what point should i think about maybe segregating the goldfish to some other container to protect the corys?
 

Dunk2

im not going to do a master test till right before i change out the water but here are strip tests of the tank, city, and softened tap water:

(tank, city, softened tap)


Screenshot_20211024_145335.png

Screenshot_20211024_145356.png

Screenshot_20211024_145419.png

the city water is harder(60-120) and has a lower pH(7.5)
the softened tap is softer(30) and more basic(8+)

there were a lot of changes from the fishbowl to the tank but im just not sure its the ammonia. they were in a very small bowl and the ammonia levels had to have been extremely high for being in there for 2 to 3 days between water changes all while seemingly "fine". i realize this doesnt make sense. at what point would a hail mary be warranted and recreate their previous conditions and step forward from there?



about the same. one guy is laying around still and the other has moments but has been spending time around the top of the tank but doesnt look like hes gasping for air or anything. when they do move it looks like they struggle with the small filter currents.

the corys at the most lively ive seen them tbh. at what point should i think about maybe segregating the goldfish to some other container to protect the corys?
My opinion about what water to use and whether to remove the goldfish to another container. . .

I would let things be for now and not change anything (other than doing water changes, of course). Allow them to settle in for a bit but keep a close eye on things.
 

RareFeeshCollector

I would let things be for now and not change anything (other than doing water changes, of course). Allow them to settle in for a bit but keep a close eye on things.

should i be worried for the corys at all?
 

Dunk2

Let me double check on the softener. . .

mattgirl Am I imagining this (been known to happen), or have some folks had issues cycling because of water softeners? Or was it simply that the pH was too low as a result of the softener? In this case, the pH seems ok.

Do the goldfish seem interested in the Corys? Are they large enough to eat the Corys?
 

RareFeeshCollector

Do the goldfish seem interested in the Corys? Are they large enough to eat the Corys?

not at all. ive never seem them even try to nibble on a cory. the corys are more than double the size of the opening of the goldfish mouths i think.
 

Dunk2

not at all. ive never seem them even try to nibble on a cory. the corys are more than double the size of the opening of the goldfish mouths i think.
I wouldn’t worry about it at this point. . . Leave them be. And I know you’re watching them close. :)

Allow mattgirl some time to weigh in on your softener. . . I have no experience with them. If my water was any softer, it would be air! :D
 

RareFeeshCollector

Dunk2 i wasnt able to get Prime today but will get at a different store tomorrow. i did grab TSS just in case. should i use that with todays water change this evening?
 

Dunk2

I don’t use TSS (and really not much of a fan if I’m being honest), but if I understand your question. . .

TSS is a bottled bacteria, not a dechlorinator. While some folks have used it and had success in speeding up the cycling process, it doesn’t detoxify low levels of ammonia (or act as a dechlorinator) like Prime.

If you want to use the TSS (it won’t hurt), you should wait 24 hours after putting dechlorinator in the tank. So to answer your question, if you’re doing a water change tonight, wait until tomorrow to use the TSS.

Does that answer your question?
 

RareFeeshCollector

I don’t use TSS (and really not much of a fan if I’m being honest), but if I understand your question. . .

TSS is a bottled bacteria, not a dechlorinator. While some folks have used it and had success in speeding up the cycling process, it doesn’t detoxify low levels of ammonia (or act as a dechlorinator) like Prime.

If you want to use the TSS (it won’t hurt), you should wait 24 hours after putting dechlorinator in the tank. So to answer your question, if you’re doing a water change tonight, wait until tomorrow to use the TSS.

Does that answer your question?

yes it does. for some reason i thought you could combine TSS with a conditioner as long as the conditioner didnt also have something to neutralize the ammonia in it. i havent tested yet but im sure my ammonia levels are high, just like yesterday, which warrants a water change to cut the ammonia by whatever the % of water change is.

i was also worried that i wouldnt be able to change the water for 2 weeks after i put TSS in. maybe this would be something to do with healthy fish but not under my conditions and i should just use the conditioner i currently have and do a regular 50% water change?
 

Dunk2

i was also worried that i wouldnt be able to change the water for 2 weeks after i put TSS in. maybe this would be something to do with healthy fish but not under my conditions and i should just use the conditioner i currently have and do a regular 50% water change?
The ”no water changes“ for 2 weeks is the part of TSS that I don’t care for. But it does work for some folks.

If this was my tank, I’d use your current conditioner and continue with water changes as your tests dictate.
 

RareFeeshCollector

parameters before the 50% water change tonight:

[HR pH(7.4-7.6), Ammonia(~.50), Nitrite(0), Nitrate(0)]


Screenshot_20211024_181751.png

[pH(7.6)] for completeness


Screenshot_20211024_182636.png
 

BlockHead1981

im not going to do a master test till right before i change out the water but here are strip tests of the tank, city, and softened tap water:

(tank, city, softened tap)


Screenshot_20211024_145335.png

Screenshot_20211024_145356.png

Screenshot_20211024_145419.png

the city water is harder(60-120) and has a lower pH(7.5)
the softened tap is softer(30) and more basic(8+)

there were a lot of changes from the fishbowl to the tank but im just not sure its the ammonia. they were in a very small bowl and the ammonia levels had to have been extremely high for being in there for 2 to 3 days between water changes all while seemingly "fine". i realize this doesnt make sense. at what point would a hail mary be warranted and recreate their previous conditions and step forward from there?



about the same. one guy is laying around still and the other has moments but has been spending time around the top of the tank but doesnt look like hes gasping for air or anything. when they do move it looks like they struggle with the small filter currents.

the corys at the most lively ive seen them tbh. at what point should i think about maybe segregating the goldfish to some other container to protect the corys?
Your city water looks fine, and I am assuming it is the easiest to access so I would switch to it. Your fish should adapt just go slow. I have hard water and have kept all kinds of fish just fine including Gold Fish. Remember what I said about using API test kit after using Seachem Prime, you have to give it 48-72 hours without adding Prime to get a good API test. It sucks but so does getting false readings.
parameters before the 50% water change tonight:

[HR pH(7.4-7.6), Ammonia(~.50), Nitrite(0), Nitrate(0)]


Screenshot_20211024_181751.png

[pH(7.6)] for completeness


Screenshot_20211024_182636.pngLooks like your Nitrate is good but also looks like you have some ammonia,I suggest daily water changes and keep dosing with Prime. Give it a week or so then don't do water changes and don't add Prime for 2-3 days then retest. It could be that the tank is cycled but your tank is just too small to keep up with the load, 10 gallons is way small for Gold FIsh, they produce ALOT of ammonia, Corys aren't helping either. You really should rehome them sorry.
 

RareFeeshCollector

Remember what I said about using API test kit after using Seachem Prime, you have to give it 48-72 hours without adding Prime to get a good API test. It sucks but so does getting false readings.

it affects all of the tests in the kit?
 

mattgirl

after i get the prime conditioner today im going to do a water change but i have a couple questions. first, do i add it with the new water like the other conditioner i was using?
Depends on why it is being used and how you do your water changes. While cycling add enough for the full tank to detox all the ammonia in the tank. Once the tank is cycled if using a python type system add enough for the full tank before starting to refill. If once cycled you are using buckets to refill add enough to treat each bucket full of water.
second, should i be using regular tap water? the tap water ive been using is softened tap water. maybe i could try the city water before it hits the softener? though, they seemed fine with the fresh from tap(softened) when they were in the bowl.
If it is possible to use water before it goes through the softener that is the option I would use. Chemicals are used to soften water. If we can avoid adding them to our tank we should.

BTW: I have never noticed Prime affecting the API liquid tests.
 

Dunk2

Depends on why it is being used and how you do your water changes. While cycling add enough for the full tank to detox all the ammonia in the tank. Once the tank is cycled if using a python type system add enough for the full tank before starting to refill. If once cycled you are using buckets to refill add enough to treat each bucket full of water.

If it is possible to use water before it goes through the softener that is the option I would use. Chemicals are used to soften water. If we can avoid adding them to our tank we should.

BTW: I have never noticed Prime affecting the API liquid tests.
Thank you mattgirl . This is why we pay you the big bucks!

So was I imagining that softeners have had an effect on the cycling process for some folks? No need for you to be kind in your response if I was. :)
 

mattgirl

Thank you mattgirl . This is why we pay you the big bucks!

So was I imagining that softeners have had an effect on the cycling process for some folks? No need for you to be kind in your response if I was. :)
No, you weren't imagining it. If we can avoid using water run through a softener we should.
 

Dunk2

No, you weren't imagining it. If we can avoid using water run through a softener we should.
Good, I’m telling my wife. She accuses me of imagining stuff. :D
 

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