TSS cycling: I feel lost with the process, where am I?

I am unsure about what's happening and I'd appreciate some insight.

About two weeks ago I started my first and new 30L (8g) aquarium. Filter and airpump running constantly. Artificial plants.

Initially I treated water with Tetra AquaSafe, TSS (SafeStart) and Easy Balance. Added some Tetra Biozyme bacteria a few days later.

For the first few days the water was cloudy. Then it got crystal clear. So, after 5 days I added 6 Odessa Barbs. They seem feeling ok, as much as I can tell.

I tried not to overfeed, but still I did. Water got smelly. I did partial water change. The smell was gone. I started feeding fish more responsibly.

All the time I did Tetra 6in1 water testing (no ammonia test included). All water parameters seem good. For a few days KH and GH slightly dropped, but it got back to "normal" after the first water change. This 6in1 test doesn't show signs for nitrites and nitrates rising. NO2 is staying at 0; NO3 is 25 - 50 mg/l.

Then I bought the ammonia test. And so, after two weeks from starting of tank, ammonia is 1-1,5 ppm. I also noticed that fish was restless, getting to the surface of water. I did 50% water change immediately. Added AquaSafe and SafeStart. The fish calmed down, didn't stick to the surface area anymore. The next day I checked ammonia again. It is 1 ppm again, as if nothing happened!

Is this normal? Why ammonia is not lowered by the 50% water change? What should I do? Should I just wait more?

If I see ammonia not dropping to 0, should I keep changing water? How often? Daily? 50%? Will this not destroy the good bacteries?

Why TSS is not enough?

Thanks in advance!

 

I believe with the Tetra Safe start you should add it 24 hours AFTER the dechlorinator. Otherwise the dechlor will kill the bacteria. Then you wait 2 weeks.

I would say now that you have fish, ditch the safe start and do water changes when levels rise. Dont add anything else but dechlor. Try to keep the ammonia and nitrites under 25. Do you have Seachem Prime? It will help detox the ammonia and nitrites while it cycles. Up to 1ppm of both combined.

No, changing water will not hurt good bacteria.

I would get a liquid test kit also the strips may not be super accurate.

Fish In Nitrogen Cycle Simplified | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 414083

 

Thankfully the bacteria isn't free floating in the water so water changes will not be removing it. The bacteria will be growing on all the surfaces in the tank but the strongest colony is going to be on your filter media until the tank is firmly established. So for now you don't want to clean your filter media until absolutely necessary. Don't do deep gravel vacs either. Either dip the water out or siphon it out but just skim the surface of the gravel if there is a buildup up of detritus laying on it.

You have a fairly high bio-load for fish in cycling a tank this size. It could very well take daily water changes to keep ammonia and nitrites when they show up down to safer levels. To protect the fish you want to keep the total amount of ammonia + nitrites well below 1. As long as you temp. match the fresh de-chlorinated water even daily 50% water change are not going to keep this tank from cycling. It may slow the cycling process down by a few days but right now the health of your fish has to be your first priority.

 

I'm a big fan of Tetra SafeStart+ and it bworks great if used properly.

To use TSS+ from scratch you need to fill tank with dechlorinated water. Wait a minimum of 24 hours, since the dechlorinator can cause TSS+ to fail if it is used less than 24 hours after the dechlorinator was added. After the 24 wait you need to add some fish and an entire, well shaken bottle of TSS+ at the same time (well one right after the other). Then you do nothing other than lightly feed your fish for the next 14 days. On day 14 test you water and if all worked correctly, your tank is cycled.

 

Thanks a lot for advises!

 

Here's a thread that may interest you:
Q & A With Tetra about Tetra SafeStart | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 58116 (fishlore.com)

 

Here's a thread that may interest you:
Q & A With Tetra about Tetra SafeStart | Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle Forum | 58116 (fishlore.com)

Thanks! I've read this before, but only now I noticed that it says a temperature above 80F will destroy TSS. Last week weather got unusually hot for our country, and the temperature in the tank stayed 86F (30C). Maybe this is destroying TSS effect... I should find how to cool the tank a bit.

So, now I did 50% water change. I added AquaSafe. I will wait 24 hours and add TSS. Then I'll wait. But... if ammonia level rises above 1 - I should change water again or just wait more?

Thanks a lot!

 

If you see you ammonia become elevated, don't panic and do a water change unless your fish appear to be in distress. TSS+ is packaged in a solution of "stabilzed ammonia" (whatever that is). I assume it is not toxic to fish, but it is possible that an ammonia test kit will pick it up as toxic ammonia.

TSS+ is a bit of a leap of faith, but I have used it several times in the past, and it has worked everytime I used it.

 

Update. I changed the water, added AquaSafe. After 24 hours added SafeStart. Kept temperature in the tank around 25C (77F).

Today (about 12 hours after TSS) I tested water parameters:

Ammonia diminished to 0,1 (it's a good thing, right?)
NO2 rised to 1 mg/l (does this mean cycling is happening?)

NO3 GH, KH, PH - OK, good values.

Would you do another water change? Or wait until ammonia or NO2 get higher?

I can also keep adding bacteria products, right? Like Bactozym which is like another version of TSS and cannot be overdosed, according to Tetra support.

(I could also add fish vitamins: Tetra Vital. I assume Vital doesn't conflict with any other products?)

Thanks for seeing me through this. I already ordered yet another tank - planted one. This is scary

 

I don't want to be a buzzkill but as nobody else says anything: The tank is too small for your barbs. You should move them to said new tank as soon as it's cycled. Provided it's 60l or bigger.

 

30l is only 6.5 gallons in good old imperial measuring so that is an ideal tank for a single betta. Possibly some nano fish. I think odessas are going to need a good bit of swimming room like a 20 gallon.

 

Update. I changed the water, added AquaSafe. After 24 hours added SafeStart. Kept temperature in the tank around 25C (77F).

Today (about 12 hours after TSS) I tested water parameters:

Ammonia diminished to 0,1 (it's a good thing, right?)
NO2 rised to 1 mg/l (does this mean cycling is happening?)

NO3 GH, KH, PH - OK, good values.

Would you do another water change? Or wait until ammonia or NO2 get higher?

I can also keep adding bacteria products, right? Like Bactozym which is like another version of TSS and cannot be overdosed, according to Tetra support.

(I could also add fish vitamins: Tetra Vital. I assume Vital doesn't conflict with any other products?)

Thanks for seeing me through this. I already ordered yet another tank - planted one. This is scary

Sounds like things are working.

Do not do a water change. Doing so will cause the TSS+ to fail. You need to wait 14 days before you can do a water change.

Do not add any additional bacteria products...or any other additives for that matter. Doing os could will also cause the TSS+ to fail.

In fact, I would recommend against testing until day 14, unless your fish seem to be in distress. With TSS+ you just need to be hands-off for 14 days to let it do it job.

 

Sounds like things are working.

Do not do a water change. Doing so will cause the TSS+ to fail. You need to wait 14 days before you can do a water change.

Do not add any additional bacteria products...or any other additives for that matter. Doing os could will also cause the TSS+ to fail.

In fact, I would recommend against testing until day 14, unless your fish seem to be in distress. With TSS+ you just need to be hands-off for 14 days to let it do it job.

OK, thanks a lot for the advise, I'll try to do that!

 

Sounds like things are working.

Do not do a water change. Doing so will cause the TSS+ to fail. You need to wait 14 days before you can do a water change.

Do not add any additional bacteria products...or any other additives for that matter. Doing os could will also cause the TSS+ to fail.

In fact, I would recommend against testing until day 14, unless your fish seem to be in distress. With TSS+ you just need to be hands-off for 14 days to let it do it job.

Sorry, but I disagree. A tank that size with that stocking is not going to make it until the 8-9 day mark without a waterchange.

 

Am I missing where the OP mentions tank size?
Otherwise, I agree with Jdhef

Edit:
Never mind. I see it now in the first post. Surely at this point the fish are babies and small (of course in the pretty near future the tank should be upgraded),.....moving away now haha

 

For whatever it’s worth, I’ve had TSS+ fail on 2 different cycling attempts.

For that reason, especially in a small tank, I’d suggest that water parameters be tested daily.

 

30l is only 6.5 gallons in good old imperial measuring so that is an ideal tank for a single betta. Possibly some nano fish. I think odessas are going to need a good bit of swimming room like a 20 gallon.

Well, 30L is 8 gallons... My worries were the same, and I planned to get 6 smaller school fish... But then I got convinced by the consultants of a specialised fish store. They were telling that barbs will be ok in 30L, if I take good care of water parameters, have plants for them to hide and there are no other fish in the tank. These barbs shouldn't grow bigger than 5-6 cm.? So, well...

They seem kind of settled to me. They are swimming around during the day, then they are resting at night, all of them pick their favorite spots behind the plants and stones. Of course, I have no experience to tell for sure, just reading this and that... They were restless and kept to the surface of water for a couple days when ammonia level got higher, now they seem "back to normal"... But yes, I read now that barbs need bigger than 10g tanks to be happy. I'll keep watching them. At this point I can't reverse this... ;-\ And I was convinced that barbs are nano fish...

Thanks a lot guys for the input... I understand everyone has their experience... I guess testing water parameters won't hurt. If I see high levels of ammonia again, I could change water. I got from you that changing water doesn't disrupt the cycling anyway...

 

If I see high levels of ammonia again, I could change water. I got from you that changing water doesn't disrupt the cycling anyway...

Make a "should" of that "could". And yes, waterchanges are not a problem for a cycling tank.

Almost everyone that hasn't been introduced to the hobby as a kid by a knowledgeable parent/relative/friend, but entered as an adult, has at one point been sold fish that don't fit their tanks, so please don't feel bad about it, just learn from the mistake and stay away from that store employee for advise. If it's the owner, maybe even stay away from that store. And I know, one is inclined to believe a "seasoned professional" at a store, and not a bunch of fellow hobbyists of varying experience and knowledge in a forum. But you will be surprised how hard it is to find someone working in a store with considerable knowledge that still cares about the animals and doesn't just look for sales.

 

Forgot to reply to the thread yesterday but I have had success using seachem stability when doing a fish in cycle so you could try that. I think it is the same as TSS.

Also I have similar size black Ruby barbs in a 110 litre and they use all the space, especially when spawning!

 

Guys, am I succeeding?

Today's water test results:

Ammonia dropped to 0
NO2/Nitrites rised to 1 mg/l
But NO3/Nitrates are still ok (50 mg/l). Should it rise for the cycle to be over?

What does that mean exactly?

I feed fish once per day, fish consume everything, no food reaches the ground. Water has no bad smell and is crystal clear. I also keep temperature around 25 C (77 F).

Thanks a lot for advices!

 

Well, this means both steps of the cycle work. Ammonia -> Nitrite and Nitrite -> Nitrate.

But NO3/Nitrates are still ok (50 mg/l). Should it rise for the cycle to be over?

No, it should not rise further, (although it surely can) the cycle is running when you have clear readings for Nitrates. The maximum amount of Nitrate that's legally ok for drinking water is 50mg/l, so do a waterchange to keep it below that level.

Also, the cycle is never over. That's why it's called a cycle.

 

Ok it’s good to see you have the tank starting to cycle. But at 8g the Odessa barbs will get to 3 inch each. The tank is way to small. I say you need at least a 30g (113l) tank or better a 40g (151l) breeder.
But your best move is to return those fish. If the store sold you those knowing they were going into a 30l that store should be avoided! If it was a misunderstanding and they were thinking 30g they should take the fish back and apologize. Did you buy the tank and fish at the same place? Next what are you filtering with? If the filter is for an 8g it will soon not be able to keep up with the waste load of the fish. I would forget the tss and would be doing 50% water changes daily till you move those fish.
An 8g tank is a nano tank good for a betta (I am not recommending a betta) shrimp,snails or a small school of nano fish.
And welcome to fishlore!! Nobody’s trying to sell you stuff here just trying to help you understand fishkeeping .

 

Well, this means both steps of the cycle work. Ammonia -> Nitrite and Nitrite -> Nitrate.



No, it should not rise further, (although it surely can) the cycle is running when you have clear readings for Nitrates. The maximum amount of Nitrate that's legally ok for drinking water is 50mg/l, so do a waterchange to keep it below that level.

Also, the cycle is never over. That's why it's called a cycle.

Thanks, I think I am starting to understand the principle.

QUESTION: Tetra says I should add AquaSafe (conditioner?) after every water change. But... will it not destroy bacteria?

I use water from geodetic deep well with no chemical filters. Test shows very good parameters of this water. No chlorine, not a bit. Should i skip AquaSafe or keep using it?

 

Thanks, I think I am starting to understand the principle.

QUESTION: Tetra says I should add AquaSafe (conditioner?) after every water change. But... will it not destroy bacteria?

I use water from geodetic deep well with no chemical filters. Test shows very good parameters of this water. No chlorine, not a bit. Should i skip AquaSafe or keep using it?

Water conditioners are designed to remove chlorine and/or chloramines. Since you have none added to your water you really don't need to add a water conditioner.

BTW: The AquaSafe will not destroy bacteria. It is simply a water conditioner. If you have chlorine in your water NOT using a water conditioner could destroy bacteria. Chlorine is added to water to destroy bacteria. Water conditioners simply remove the chlorine.

 

QUESTION: Tetra says I should add AquaSafe (conditioner?) after every water change. But... will it not destroy bacteria?

Dechlorinators protect the microorganisms that perform the cycle. Otherwiese disinfectants (chlorine, chloramine) from the tapwater would kill them off.
But as you are on a well, you can skip that stuff. It doesn't do anything for you.

 

Ok it’s good to see you have the tank starting to cycle. But at 8g the Odessa barbs will get to 3 inch each. The tank is way to small. I say you need at least a 30g (113l) tank or better a 40g (151l) breeder.
But your best move is to return those fish. If the store sold you those knowing they were going into a 30l that store should be avoided! If it was a misunderstanding and they were thinking 30g they should take the fish back and apologize. Did you buy the tank and fish at the same place? Next what are you filtering with? If the filter is for an 8g it will soon not be able to keep up with the waste load of the fish. I would forget the tss and would be doing 50% water changes daily till you move those fish.
An 8g tank is a nano tank good for a betta (I am not recommending a betta) shrimp,snails or a small school of nano fish.
And welcome to fishlore!! Nobody’s trying to sell you stuff here just trying to help you understand fishkeeping .

Thanks! Nope, this store doesn't take fish back. I liked the store cause its clean, tanks and fish seemed healthy, no dead fish laying around as in some stores. They said "barbs will be ok in 30litres tank, just watch for parameters of water and change it when needed." Also, the information on internet is very inconsistent. Some say barb will grow up to 4.5 or 5 cm, other - 3 inch (which is not the same!).

I guess I could give barbs away. Or get a bigger tank later. I'll see what I can do. I like them a lot. For now I am happy tank cycling worked and fish seem healthy so far.

I also have a question. What consist the biggest problem for barbs in 8 gallon (30L) tank? By their size they don't differ too much from some other nano fish (like some tetras etc.). Is it that they like moving around a lot and smaller tank restricts them?

 

So sorry to hear they mislead you and won’t take the fish back. This shop does not deserve your business.

I also have a question. What consist the biggest problem for barbs in 8 gallon (30L) tank? By their size they don't differ too much from some other nano fish (like some tetras etc.). Is it that they like moving around a lot and smaller tank restricts them?

Nano fish, such as chili rasboras, green neons and the rest will grow to a few centimetres in length, but they have small bioloads compared to Odessa barbs. Odessa barbs produce more ammonia, which, in a cycled tank, will eventually become nitrate (NO3), which is dangerous at 50mg/L. When it reaches 40mg/L that’s your signal to do a large water change. 20mg/L or lower is very safe and is what I aim for. High levels of nitrate usually warrants algae blooms due to nitrate being a compound containing nitrogen. Not to mention other dissolved organic compounds building up to high levels in an overstocked tank. Tackling these is similar to tackling nitrate: water changes of at least 50%.

Even if you can keep water quality in good condition, there’s still “socially overstocking.” Barbs, as you mentioned, are speedsters that prefer to swim across vast areas. An 8 gallon limits them to a small space which should be bigger. Fin nipping could occur. A 20 gallon tank, rather longer than tall, will provide your barbs with adequate space. Something around this size or bigger is what I recommend.

Oh, and by the way, when someone says a fish should be kept in a group of at least six, ignore them. I assume you got six as you were told to do so. A shoal size of six isn’t the holy grail of stocking and fish in a shoal of six wouldn’t act much different than fish in a shoal of five. If you upgrade the tank, make the shoals as large as the tank size allows for and transfer all the filter media from the 8 gallon into the new tank’s filter.

 

Thanks for the explanation!