Trouble understanding where in the Nitrogen cycle I am

HI all. I just got a 20 gallon tank and used the python products (Python Products Inc. Products Page) to "kick start the cycle". I went and got 2 mollies 2 days after using the products. It's been 2 and a half weeks since the tank has been running. The fish seem to be doing fine and I only learnt about the API water test kit this week so I went and bought it. I tested on 2 days and both times the reading was ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. Looks like ammonia is not increasing but no idea why there aren't any nitrates - I don't have any real plants in aquarium. I did a water change of about 20% each week.

I read a lot and know about shaking the nitrate test bottle extensively etc. Not sure if the ammonia will go down by itself or if I should add something extra? Looking for any hint or suggestion as it seems i'm one of the few who has used the python product.

 

You’re at the beginning of the cycle. Ammonia has not been turned into nitrites yet, and no nitrites, no nitrates.

Do a water change every time you have ammonia and/or nitrites. You can do a 50% one and it will lower the levels by 50%. Always use water condition and beneficial bacteria. If you don’t do water changes, your fish will die from being poisoned by ammonia and/or nitrites.

Do a water change ASAP, test your levels every day and change the water accordingly. During the peak of the cycle, you will have to do a daily water change.

Nitrates are fine up to 40 ppm, but you won’t gave to worry about those for a while

Do not buy any more fish until you are cycled.

 

The apI tests are commonly known to always test 0.25 for ammonia! So there is a very good chance your ammonia is actually at 0!

You can try testing your tap water and if it also come out to 0.25 then you know your tank water is at 0

 

HI all. I just got a 20 gallon tank and used the python products (Python Products Inc. Products Page) to "kick start the cycle". I went and got 2 mollies 2 days after using the products. It's been 2 and a half weeks since the tank has been running. The fish seem to be doing fine and I only learnt about the API water test kit this week so I went and bought it. I tested on 2 days and both times the reading was ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. Looks like ammonia is not increasing but no idea why there aren't any nitrates - I don't have any real plants in aquarium. I did a water change of about 20% each week.

I read a lot and know about shaking the nitrate test bottle extensively etc. Not sure if the ammonia will go down by itself or if I should add something extra? Looking for any hint or suggestion as it seems i'm one of the few who has used the python product.

Are you using something like Seachem Prime to protect your fish while the tank cycles?

The apI tests are commonly known to always test 0.25 for ammonia! So there is a very good chance your ammonia is actually at 0!

As DechI said, the tank is early in the cycling process. poorguy has no nitrites or nitrates. So being at 0 wouldn’t be a good thing as any beneficial bacteria would starve.

 

The apI tests are commonly known to always test 0.25 for ammonia! So there is a very good chance your ammonia is actually at 0!

I doubt very much their cycle is done is only 2 weeks. Cycling takes around 30 days.

I’ve been using the API kit for 10years+ and never had a false reading. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but it must be rare. The nitrate test is not sensitive enough, that’s a fact.

 

I doubt very much their cycle is done is only 2 weeks. Cycling takes around 30 days.

I’ve been using the API kit for 10years+ and never had a false reading. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but it must be rare. The nitrate test is not sensitive enough, that’s a fact.

I’m not sure I’ve heard that a LOT of people have a a problem with the 0.25 ammonia. Just trying to shed some light on the issue

 

Just trying to shed some light on the issue

The tank is not cycled.

 

it is a bit confusing. the products that came with the tank are the python products one bottle is a bacteria enhancer (lots of bacteria in a bottle), the other is one which breaks up ammonia so. I added some extra bacteria to helps the ammonia absorption. I won't add more of the ammonia break up one as it says this may cause an ammonia spike (I don't have another tank)

Do not buy any more fish until you are cycled.

definitely not planning to, the first 2 itself was a mistake

The apI tests are commonly known to always test 0.25 for ammonia! So there is a very good chance your ammonia is actually at 0!

I have also seen a few posts around this but maybe I'll test the tap water and see what the ammonia levels are

i'll test this week and see what happens, hopefully extra bacteria will keep the ammonia in chek with regular dosages

 

it is a bit confusing. the products that came with the tank are the python products one bottle is a bacteria enhancer (lots of bacteria in a bottle), the other is one which breaks up ammonia so. I added some extra bacteria to helps the ammonia absorption. I won't add more of the ammonia break up one as it says this may cause an ammonia spike (I don't have another tank)

definitely not planning to, the first 2 itself was a mistake


I have also seen a few posts around this but maybe I'll test the tap water and see what the ammonia levels are

i'll test this week and see what happens, hopefully extra bacteria will keep the ammonia in chek with regular dosages

You need to be concerned about ammonia and nitrites (when you start measuring nitrites).

Are you using something to protect your fish until the tank is fully cycled?
P.S. The only thing that will keep ammonia in check while your tank cycles is water changes.

 

hopefully extra bacteria will keep the ammonia in chek with regular dosages

It won’t. Cycling is a pain in the butt and it’s a lot fo work for about 30 days. You need to test your levels every day and do a water change. There is no magic, that’s all it is.

 

P.S. The only thing that will keep ammonia in check while your tank cycles is water changes.

Sure I agree, but the readings before and after water changes are 0.25. I did a test 1 day before changing water and one day after. The ammonia should be much higher before changing water...so it's weire

It won’t. Cycling is a pain in the butt and it’s a lot fo work for about 30 days. You need to test your levels every day and do a water change. There is no magic, that’s all it is.

Every day?? Ok sheesh, with a 20 gallon I thought fluctuations wouldn't be extreme. Ok let me do some tests the next few days

 

Sure I agree, but the readings before and after water changes are 0.25. I did a test 1 day before changing water and one day after. The ammonia should be much higher before changing water...so it's weire

Cycling takes time. Fish-in cycling takes time, lots of water testing and lots of water changes.

Every day?? Ok sheesh, with a 20 gallon I thought fluctuations wouldn't be extreme. Ok let me do some tests the next few days

Your profile says you know about the nitrogen cycle?

 

I do I read enough to understand it can be done from 2 weeks to 3 months and that it's can be sped up using market products which is what I'm doing so what's your point? Ammonia nitrite nitrate it's not rocket science it's just experience that some people have been thru and this is my fist time.

PS I'm not going to to a water change for 0.25 ammonia as it seems counter productive. I'm adding the bacteria batter all. If ammonia goes higher I'll change water sure

 

Sure I agree, but the readings before and after water changes are 0.25. I did a test 1 day before changing water and one day after. The ammonia should be much higher before changing water...so it's weire

How much water are you changing ? Either you’re changing a ridiculously small amount and Ammonia levels remain the same, or there is a problem with how you are doing the test. This just can’t be.

If ammonia levels are 0,25 before a 50% water change, for example, the ammonia levels will be 0,125 right after the WC. That’s not debatable.

 

I do I read enough to understand it can be done from 2 weeks to 3 months and that it's can be sped up using market products which is what I'm doing so what's your point? Ammonia nitrite nitrate it's not rocket science it's just experience that some people have been thru and this is my fist time.

PS I'm not going to to a water change for 0.25 ammonia as it seems counter productive. I'm adding the bacteria batter all. If ammonia goes higher I'll change water sure

Best of luck to you.

 

Best of luck to you.

Thanks! I'm sure I'll manage just fine

 

Sure I agree, but the readings before and after water changes are 0.25. I did a test 1 day before changing water and one day after. The ammonia should be much higher before changing water...so it's weire

PS I'm not going to to a water change for 0.25 ammonia as it seems counter productive. I'm adding the bacteria batter all. If ammonia goes higher I'll change water sure

Doing a water change is not counter-productive. It’s necessary to save the life of your fish, who rely on you to live. If you didn’t want to have to deal with doing water changes, then you should have done a fishless cycle.

As we have said, the beneficial bacteria will not remove ammonia.

 

How much water are you changing ? Either you’re changing a ridiculously small amount and Ammonia levels remain the same, or there is a problem with how you are doing the test. This just can’t be.

If ammonia levels are 0,25 before a 50% water change, for example, the ammonia levels will be 0,125 right after the WC. That’s not debatable.

It was a 25 to 30 percent change not 50percent I'm sure. I'll try a larger change if I notice ammonia spiking. Daily tests after all from now on

 

Doing a water change is not counter-productive. It’s necessary to save the life of your fish, who rely on you to live. If you didn’t want to have to deal with doing water changes, then you should have done a fishless cycle.

As we have said, the beneficial bacteria will not remove ammonia.

Carry on. . . I threw in the towel.

 

Doing a water change is not counter-productive. It’s necessary to save the life of your fish, who rely on you to live. If you didn’t want to have to deal with doing water changes, then you should have done a fishless cycle.

As we have said, the beneficial bacteria will not remove ammonia.

Yeah I used the product to remove ammonia but I I use more then I'm going more than what the product says. More bacteria is not a problem I'm sure but more of their other ammonia removing product I don't know what the consequences will be if I overdose. Btw I am using the products as mentioned in the post above

 

The tank is not cycled.

I get that, as you said it above but as I said above I was just trying to help by telling them that the kit is not always correct. No where did I say the tank was fully cycled which is why I said to test the tap water as well.

 

Relax. You’ll be fine.
the fish probably will too. You only have 2 Mollies in a 20 gallon tank. There is more than enough water to dilute the ammonia. It’s only reading at like .25.
0 is ideal of course, but mollies are hardy.
Test your water every 2-3 days to make sure it doesn’t go any higher than .25.
you need the ammonia in the tank to get your cycle up and running. It will happen. Don’t put any more chemicals in the water, it’ll only complicate things.
Do a weekly water change of about 25% to get into good habits. But keep a close eye on your ammonia, no more than .25.
Track your progress, maintenance, and water parameters. I use the aquaPlanner app. Happy fish-keeping!

 

All the above advice is good.
I started a new 55 gallon with fish in mid September. Keeping a cycle safe with fish does take extra work and patience.
I still test my water daily and only do no less than 50% water changes whenever ammonia hit .50! It took just over a month to start seeing nitrite readings. Then eventually nitrates.
Your ammonia will not process into nitrite and finally nitrates until the beneficial bacteria colonize. Until then you need to keep the levels of toxins safe manually through water changes. I’ve never had to do more than 2 in a week, but test everyday.

 

Relax. You’ll be fine.
the fish probably will too. You only have 2 Mollies in a 20 gallon tank. There is more than enough water to dilute the ammonia. It’s only reading at like .25.
0 is ideal of course, but mollies are hardy.
Test your water every 2-3 days to make sure it doesn’t go any higher than .25.
you need the ammonia in the tank to get your cycle up and running. It will happen. Don’t put any more chemicals in the water, it’ll only complicate things.
Do a weekly water change of about 25% to get into good habits. But keep a close eye on your ammonia, no more than .25.
Track your progress, maintenance, and water parameters. I use the aquaPlanner app. Happy fish-keeping!

Yup this makes sense, the urge is there to put more chemicals but patience is key. I'll keep testing! thanks

All the above advice is good.
I started a new 55 gallon with fish in mid September. Keeping a cycle safe with fish does take extra work and patience.
I still test my water daily and only do no less than 50% water changes whenever ammonia hit .50! It took just over a month to start seeing nitrite readings. Then eventually nitrates.
Your ammonia will not process into nitrite and finally nitrates until the beneficial bacteria colonize. Until then you need to keep the levels of toxins safe manually through water changes. I’ve never had to do more than 2 in a week, but test everyday.

Agreed! I'll keep an eye on the ammonia, I'm waiting to see the nitrate reading but patience...

 

The only chemical you need is Seachem Prime water dechlorinator to bind the ammonia and make it safe for your fish. It works for 48 hrs. so you only need every other day.

 

With just the 2 fish in this tank you are not going to get a high ammonia spike quickly. The bottled bacteria may have jump started the cycle but it doesn't appear to have done anything since you aren't seeing any nitrites or nitrates.

As StarGirl15 suggested if you don't already have it get a bottle of Seachem Prime. It is first and foremost a water conditioner but goes one step farther and detoxes low levels of ammonia. By using it you can allow your ammonia to get up close to one before doing a water change.

Shake the ammonia testing solution before using. I could be very wrong but I THINK the reason so many folks are constantly seeing a .25 reading is because they don't shake to mix the solution in the bottles. I have a habit of shaking any liquid before using so just naturally have always shaken my testing solutions. I get a true zero reading for ammonia with my API test kit.

Cycling a tank takes lots of patience and water changes as needed

 

The good part about this is even if the tank didnt cycle properly using the add bacteria method it will eventually cycle by itself the natural [old fashioned] way. The fewer the fish the longer it will take. Only add hardy type fish because their at risk during the cycle. Without adding live bacteria you have to let the ammonia level rise to a dangerious point [around 1] to kickstart the formation of ammo processing bacteria. If ammo goes past the danger point do water change to bring it down. The ammo will drop down but nitrite will rise. Like the ammo it reaches a dangerious point then nitrite processing bacteria forms and when ammo and nitrite are at zero tank is cycled but nitrates will go up. Water changes control the nitrate levels although plants can help. Live bacteria is a great way of speeding up the process but adds many variabels to the process. Theres no way of telling the condition of the 'live' bacteria except the date code on the bottle. If left freezing in a warehouse overnight does it affect it? I have no idea. Other things like low ph [under 6.5?] can stall the process. The smaller the tank the faster they usually cycle. My 240 gallon saltwater tank took almost 5 months to cycle. I gave up on testing every day. Have patience, it's worth it when it's done.

How much water are you changing ? Either you’re changing a ridiculously small amount and Ammonia levels remain the same, or there is a problem with how you are doing the test. This just can’t be.

If ammonia levels are 0,25 before a 50% water change, for example, the ammonia levels will be 0,125 right after the WC. That’s not debatable.

One possible answer to this is there may be ammo in his tap water. Who knows what water companies are treating our water with? Op should test the tap water. Reading the results by color comparsions can be easily misjudged, I used to ask my wife for a second opinion. I trust younger sets of eyes more than mine.

 

so I just did a water test - nothings changed ammonia is at 0.25 but I did test my tap water and it has 0 ammonia so I guess the test is working as expected

has anyone used any of the products shown in the photo below?



I used the Big Als bio support to start the aquarium and then according to instructions I can only add 10ml per week for a 20Gallon - which seems a bit low I mean its bacteria after all. Will too much hurt?

Also if the ammonia gets too high should I use the bio clean (which supposedly breaks down waste and removes ammonia) or the water conditioner (which I use for water changes) to bring down the ammonia. Or should I just stick with water changes to keep ammonia in check?

 

Instead of depending on something in a bottle for removing ammonia I highly recommend doing a water change to get it down should it creep up close to one.

Personally I don't think adding more bottled bacteria will hurt anything. Most likely won't help but probably won't hurt either. Cycling a tank takes time no matter how much bottled bacteria one adds. There are a few brands of bottle bacteria that work for some folks but in my humble opinion most of them don't do what they claim to do.

I immediately start doubting a product that recommends adding more each week. Once a cycle is complete there is no reason to keep adding bacteria in a bottle. Following those instructions just keeps you buying their product from now on.

 

Shake the ammonia testing solution before using. I could be very wrong but I THINK the reason so many folks are constantly seeing a .25 reading is because they don't shake to mix the solution in the bottles. I have a habit of shaking any liquid before using so just naturally have always shaken my testing solutions. I get a true zero reading for ammonia with my API test kit.

I also shake all bottles.

I have found that the color of all the tests looks different in different light. The directions say to hold the test tube against a white background in a well lit area.

Yesterday one of the tanks I tested for ammonia was clearly yellow when viewed against a white background, but had a very slight hint of green when held up to sunlight. I called that zero since it was pure yellow when viewed against a white background. But I wonder if the commonly reported issue of always getting a reading of 0.25% might be due to the light it is read in. Or not reading it against a white background.

 

HI all. I just got a 20 gallon tank and used the python products (Python Products Inc. Products Page) to "kick start the cycle". I went and got 2 mollies 2 days after using the products. It's been 2 and a half weeks since the tank has been running. The fish seem to be doing fine and I only learnt about the API water test kit this week so I went and bought it. I tested on 2 days and both times the reading was ammonia 0.25, nitrite 0 and nitrate 0. Looks like ammonia is not increasing but no idea why there aren't any nitrates - I don't have any real plants in aquarium. I did a water change of about 20% each week.

I read a lot and know about shaking the nitrate test bottle extensively etc. Not sure if the ammonia will go down by itself or if I should add something extra? Looking for any hint or suggestion as it seems i'm one of the few who has used the python product.

Seachem Prime is a concentrated dechlorinator that also temporarily converts low levels (<1ppm) of ammonia + nitrites (both toxic to fish) to a harmless form. I suggest using that instead of your Python dechlorinator while your tank is cycling. You will need to dose the entire tank volume every 48 hours to keep the fish protected.
You have 2 fish in a 20 gallon tank. That's not much poop (ammonia) for that water volume. It's going to take lots of time for ammonia to build up, for nitrifying bacteria to replicate (they are among the slowest growing bacteria known), and for nitrates to show up at a measurable level. You are looking at 4-8 weeks of cycling even with a bacteria supplement doing a fish-in cycle. Your tank will retain/produce enough bacteria to handle the waste of 2 fish. Every time you add fish after your cycle is complete, you will need to monitor ammonia/nitrite levels until additional bacteria are produced to handle the increased bioload.
My suggestions-if you haven't got the patience to cycle for 6+ weeks, is to take the Molly's back, get a bottle of pure ammonia and cycle the tank, with that, to 2ppm ammonia. Then you can go get all the fish you want in the tank and fully stock it.
OR
Be patient, get some Seachem Prime to protect the two you have, let combined ammonia/nitrite levels hang at just under 1 ppm (control them with water changes), and wait.
Bottled bacteria works some, but it's a big business and manufacturers can claim that any nitrifying bacteria will help you're tank cycle faster. That is, in most cases, not completely true. Nitrifying Bacteria that breaks down organic matter (fish poop) just produces ammonia, if there's not a significant amount of ammonia or nitrite oxidizing bacteria species in that bottle too, all you're going to get is ammonia. Any product, whose manufacturers won't list the bacteria types present in a bottle, is a crapshoot. Many do shorten the cycling process a little, others seem to significantly shorten the cycling process and some products seem to do nothing at all. None provide an instantly cycled tank. Your tank will cycle, regardless of the way you do it, but probably not on your schedule lol!

 

Yeah I was getting into analysis paralysis mode. So I'm going to leave everything as is and only control ammonia via water changes and once a week seems to keep things under 0.25 so that's cool. I mean it's been 3 weeks already so I'll wait.
Will update if there's any changes, thanks all!

 

So just an update ammonia has increased and so has nitrites but no nitrates yet. I'm keeping the levels below 1 for each via water changes. Matter of time I guess...in the meantime I wanted to check something.

I have an aqueon 10 filter that is rated at 100gph. There is currently an aqueon 10 on sale. I want to get the filter for 2 reasons, 1: redundancy 2: tank can take a lil more fish as long as I don't overstock (using aqadvisor).

So question is, will adding a redundant filter now delay the end of my cycle? Adding another filter in theory would mean that 50% of water is filtered through an bacterialess filter hence my confusion. Anyone done something similar?

 

Adding another filter should have no effect on the cycle.

 

Ok perfect! Thanks!

 

update: so after 46 days in cycling my ammonia finally seems to be going down. it was 0.25 today. Nitrites were ridiculously high 2-5 (cant tell the color difference) and also I have a reading of 5 for nitrates!!! wooohoo!

Had to do a large water change due to the nitrites (I suppose this delays end of the cycle) but at least seems like things are reaching somewhere.

 

How much water are you changing ? Either you’re changing a ridiculously small amount and Ammonia levels remain the same, or there is a problem with how you are doing the test. This just can’t be.

If ammonia levels are 0,25 before a 50% water change, for example, the ammonia levels will be 0,125 right after the WC. That’s not debatable.

Its possible if his tap water has ammonia in it. He needs to test his source water to determine what the issue is.When you add live bacteria it's hard to predict cycling times. If the bacteria has both ammo and nitrite converting bacteria you may not see the traditional ammo rise then fall follower by nitrite rise and fall. The best indicator is when nitrates start reaching measureable levels. One note about water changes is their never a bad thing. When cycling I always added bacteria [Seachem Stability and prime] with every water change. Too much bacteria can't hurt. Edit to add make sure to check your ph. Too low [@6] can inhibit bacteria function. Edit again to say sorry if I confused op with this post. I didn't realize there was a page 2. Congrats op seems like the end is in site, YOU DID IT!

 

alright final update:

btw i'm only updating because I have come across several similar threads that just left you hanging! Hopefully these stats will be useful to someone.

so in summary this is how long it took:

• Put water in new 20 Gallon tank (Aqueon 10 filter and aqueon heater set to 78 degree Fahrenheit) - 20 Nov 2019
• Added 2 mollies after using Big Als quick start - 22 Nov 2019
• I missed when the Ammonia peaked, but nitrites seems to have peaked on 2 Jan 2020
• Ammonia and Nitrite is 0 - 10 Jan 2020 so 51 days to cycle tank (oddly enough I can't seem to see any nitrates but I seem to see a slight orange tinge, API kit works cause there was a nitrate reading of 5 the previous week)
• Water changes were done every 5 days or so

Mollie's are doing fine
Thanks to all! and mods please feel free to close the thread

 

Thank you for the update