Trouble cycling - no nitrite or nitrate levels

I have a three-gallon and a ten-gallon tank. Both were set up and "cycled" or so I thought before fish were added. When fish started dying in the ten-gallon, I discovered that I had been missing a test that looked at ammonia (I was new to fish and oblivious that the 5-in-1 test strips missed one of the most important levels I needed to watch for). I then restarted the entire tank (took everything out, rinsed and scrubbed it all, cleaned the gravel, and bought a better filter) and was forced to do a fish-in cycle. My 3 gallon is also currently doing a fish-in cycle with a betta and two nerite snails because I needed an ammonia source and fish food wasn't working.

Problem is, the ammonia in both tanks rises and falls but I haven't had any nitrite or nitrate levels. I've been doing water changes and cleaning the gravel with a vacuum every other day (I use a turkey baster in the 3 gallon). I use Prime every other day and API Quick Start as well as Seachem Stability every day. I have to do yet another water change and gravel cleaning tomorrow because overnight the ammonia rose to 4ppm in the big tank and 1ppm in the small.

Can anyone offer any advice? What ppm should I be attempting to keep the ammonia at? Is changing the water every other day too often? Too little? Seeing as I have nowhere else to put the fish, I'm doing what I can to keep them all as safe as possible and added a few live plants to both tanks to try and help keep the ammonia levels down. If needed, I will attempt to restart both tanks possibly with new gravel as well.

 

When you re start you are truly re starting. The thing you have to do: Do water changes to keep ammonia and nitrites down to a combined 1ppm with your Prime. That means under .50ppm on both. Lots of water changes when levels rise will protect your fish. Change water as much as you need to without cleaning anything. The water will not harm any bacteria you are building but cleaning things will.

 

When you re start you are truly re starting. The thing you have to do: Do water changes to keep ammonia and nitrites down to a combined 1ppm with your Prime. That means under .50ppm on both. Lots of water changes when levels rise will protect your fish. Change water as much as you need to without cleaning anything. The water will not harm any bacteria you are building but cleaning things will.

That's really helpful! I always just cleaned the gravel and in the process typically had 50% of the water gone in the 10 gallon and would refill it and count it as a water change. My ammonia has been rising and falling between 1-4ppm (since restarting the 10 gallon which got stuck at 8ppm ammonia and would not drop until I cleaned everything and restarted) and the nitrite and nitrate have been 0ppm since I got the tank months ago. I'll do the water changes now without cleaning the gravel and hopefully, that helps. Should I change out the filter foam/media as well or leave it as is?

 

Leave all of your media as is. Do you change your foam media regularly? If you do stop.....Just squeeze it in tank water to clean until it literally falls apart.

 

Leave all of your media as is. Do you change your foam media regularly? If you do stop.....Just squeeze it in tank water to clean until it literally falls apart.

I haven't done anything with the media since I bought the new (better) filter about two months ago. I'll definitely keep that in mind!

 

Most of your bacteria is in your filter. Its best to leave it until it gets clogged. Then squish it when you do a water change in the old water. Only change media when it is truly old. Which a lot is almost never. If it is 2 months old that is strange you are still getting so much ammonia. Have you tested your tap water?

 

Most of your bacteria is in your filter. Its best to leave it until it gets clogged. Then squish it when you do a water change in the old water. Only change media when it is truly old. Which a lot is almost never. If it is 2 months old that is strange you are still getting so much ammonia. Have you tested your tap water?

I'll double-check the tap water tomorrow. I don't remember it having high ammonia though. We have hard and soft water (the soft water I can get quickly for about 2-5 gallons before it tapers off and I mix it with tap water.

The problem might be how full the tank is (though it rose to 8ppm before I restarted it with far less fish). I added the living plants this last week to try and keep the ammonia levels lower and they have been typically between 1-2ppm after my water changes/cleaning.

 

How big of water changes do you do?

 

How big of water changes do you do?

I do between 50%-75% water changes since I've been cleaning the gravel at the same time.

 

Hmm that is still strange how you still have such high ammonia levels then. It seems you are doing what you need to. Do you have a very large amount of fish?

I have to retire for the night I will get back with you tomorrow.

 

Hmm that is still strange how you still have such high ammonia levels then. It seems you are doing what you need to. Do you have a very large amount of fish?

Unfortunately, yes. I have one mickey platy, two dumbo guppies, a wag swordtail, and two albino cory catfish in the 10 gallon. The 3 gallon has just a betta and two nerite snails I just added this week to help clean some white-ish algae I've been finding floating around.

 

Are you adding API Ammo-Lock to these tanks?

 

Are you adding API Ammo-Lock to these tanks?

I’m using Seachem Prime. Should I be using Ammo-lock as well? I have some.

 

No dont use that ever when cycling. The high ammonia levels are usually caused by someone using ammo lock and not disclosing it. Thats all.

Try doing a water change 50% without the Quick start and Stability just the Prime. I want to see what those numbers are.

 

I agree with StarGirl Any time someone comes here and is having these kinds of problems with ammonia I have to ask. Quite often the problem is the addition of ammo-lock. Don't use it.

 

No dont use that ever when cycling. The high ammonia levels are usually caused by someone using ammo lock and not disclosing it. Thats all.

Try doing a water change 50% without the Quick start and Stability just the Prime. I want to see what those numbers are.

I didn't see your message until after I did the water change, but after a 50% water change (with Quick Start, Stability, and Prime) here's what I got.

10 gallon
ph: 7.4
ammonia: 1ppm
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 5.0

3 gallon
ph: 6.8
ammonia: 0.5
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0

 

Im pretty sure Quick start and Stability both do the same thing, I would just do the Prime and Stability only. I think the Quick start says it makes ammonia and nitrites less harmful so Im wondering if it is essentially doing the same thing as ammo lock. Since Prime and Stability are the same company I would just use those two and see what we get. I also think the Stability and QS you are supposed to add them 24 hrs later so the Prime doesn't kill the bacteria in it.

 

My levels today were the same in the 3 gallon, but the 10 gallon has changed!

ammonia: 1
nitrite: 0.25
nitrate: 5

I did a 25% water change after getting these levels and added only Prime to the 10 gallon. The 3 gallon got Prime and Stability, but I will be doing stability daily and prime every other day for this tank. I will be doing only prime every other day for the 10 gallon.

when do you suggest I clean the gravel? should I wait until the tanks are fully cycled? should I do just spot cleaning for both tanks?

 

My levels today were the same in the 3 gallon, but the 10 gallon has changed!

ammonia: 1
nitrite: 0.25
nitrate: 5

I did a 25% water change after getting these levels and added only Prime to the 10 gallon. The 3 gallon got Prime and Stability, but I will be doing stability daily and prime every other day for this tank. I will be doing only prime every other day for the 10 gallon.

when do you suggest I clean the gravel? should I wait until the tanks are fully cycled? should I do just spot cleaning for both tanks?

You can vac up what ever is laying on top of the gravel but don't do any deep cleaning until the cycles are complete and stable.

 

Did a 50% water change today and cleaned the top of the gravel in the 10 gallon. Dosed with Prime:

ammonia: 0.25
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 10

Did 25% water change and spot cleaning in the 3 gallon. Dosed with Stability and Prime:

ammonia: 0.5
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0

Looks like the 10 gallon might be nearly done cycling! The 3 gallon is proving more stubborn.