Treating Goldfish Dropsy

Rtessy
  • #1
Please help, I have a goldfish who's been sick for almost two weeks, it seems to be costia, I've been treating with Ruby reef kick Ich but now it looks like he is developing dropsy. Three days ago I thought he was just getting a little chubbier, I was feeding a bit more because he was sick and I was worried about him not eating. Yesterday his eyes seemed a little bulgey, and now some of his scales have started to lift up. Please help what do I do?
 
Fishstuff
  • #2
Melafix and pimafix will destroy everything that has ever caused the fish a bacterial or fungal issue. Treat the whole tank.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
I don't mean to sound rude or like I don't appreciate your advise, but I tried treating with Pimafix and it did nothing, and I was advised by other members to try something stronger, since those as just tea tree oil... Do you think kanaplex or kanamycin would be better? If so, which one? Both?
 
Fishstuff
  • #4
I don't mean to sound rude or like I don't appreciate your advise, but I tried treating with Pimafix and it did nothing, and I was advised by other members to try something stronger, since those as just tea tree oil... Do you think kanaplex or kanamycin would be better? If so, which one? Both?
I’m really not sure what they are! If you can ask your LFS for advice. Anything that says bacterial and fungal, get it. Something like all in one remedy.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #5
Okay, thank you! Are there any of the all in one you recommend? Should I quarantine? I have some inverts in the tank, and I think most all in ones have copper...
Should I do Epsom salt baths?
 
Fishstuff
  • #6
Okay, thank you! Are there any of the all in one you recommend? Should I quarantine? I have some inverts in the tank, and I think most all in ones have copper...
Should I do Epsom salt baths?
Epsom would help. Anything that treats fungal and bacterial infections will definitely destroy dropsy. I highly recommend getting the remedy though. A pack is $20 I think, but you said pimafix didn’t work? Melafix is way better for dropsy, but you can also combine the two to “super clean” out your tank.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #7
I really appreciate your help, but I think I'm going to have to go a different route... when I was using the Pimafix the tea tree oil really aggravated my allergies, and since it's in my bedroom, I'd rather not, having a few asthma issues as well now... Love my fish, but I'd prefer not to sacrifice myself lol
 
wolfgangfish
  • #8
I really appreciate your help, but I think I'm going to have to go a different route... when I was using the Pimafix the tea tree oil really aggravated my allergies, and since it's in my bedroom, I'd rather not, having a few asthma issues as well now... Love my fish, but I'd prefer not to sacrifice myself lol
when I was treating dropsy kanaplex helped a lot, but I also used methylene blue, epsom baths and neoplex
 
tellin
  • #9
Epsom baths really seem to make the fish more comfortable, at least.
 
Platylover
  • #10
This is how I typical sugges treating it-
Dropsy treatment

I’d definitly start on the baths and get the keneplex, make sure that the parameters and temp are all good as well as doing daily waterchanges. I’m sorry your goldy is going through this, I hope he’s able to recover.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #11
Thank you all very much, I'm really hoping he can pull though this, I'm pretty attached to him. I ordered kanaplex, but it won't get here until Friday, no local stores had any. I don't even know how to use it, I've heard of it in food and aquarium, do I do one or both? If I do the food, what amount do I soak the food it? And I add epsom salt at 1 tbsp per 5 gallons and do 2-3 baths of 1 tsp per gallon a day? How far apart should the baths be timewise?
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate ~0 (plants and more frequent water changes, it's been cycled for a while)
I just feel so bad, I was finally trying to do right, I literally had him in a bowl for two years, then October I actually learned about stuff and got a temporary 10, and just moved him to a 60 two weeks ago, and he got costia and ich (I think)
I thought that stuff had to be introduced but he's been alone for almost three years. How does this stuff come about anyway?

Sorry for all the questions, I realize it's really long. Also, yet more questions (sorry), do I need to remove the Kick-Ich from the water, and if so, how do I go about doing that?
 
Platylover
  • #12
1. I’ve always just added it to the aquarium, but I’d assume either method would be fine.
2. Unsure as I’ve never personally done it
3. Yes, but the bath solution should be 1 tbs per gallon.
4. I’d do it at least 2 hours apart.
5. There’s a lot of different ways it can come about, sometimes it’s seemingly nothing is wrong but it still happens. Other times it can be caused by an infection from poor water quality and such.
6. I’d do some waterchanges prior to adding the keneplex and if you have charcoal filter media, use that for a bit(not when adding lenaplex though).

Try not to beat yourself up to much, we all make mistakes and it’s absolutlet great your fixing yours! I’m sure you’ll do your very best to take care of him and if he does end up passing, at least you’ve done your best and cared for him which is more than what a lot of fish get.
 
wolfgangfish
  • #13
Sorry for all the questions, I realize it's really long. Also, yet more questions (sorry), do I need to remove the Kick-Ich from the water, and if so, how do I go about doing that?
I would recommend adding to the water because if you want to add it to food you need to buy something that will bind the medication to the food (like seachem focus) as well as possibly some garlic guard to entice him into eating. the directions on the kanaplex are pretty easy to follow, but remember to take out things such as carbon from your filter because it will nullify the medication. IIRC kanaplex is not supposed to be used with snail/invertebrates (though in my experience my snail didnt die)
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #14
Thank you!!

Ack sorry two more questions. Is the dose for the tank he will be in 1 tbsp per 5 gallons or per 10 gallons? And is it necessary to move him to a QT? Would it be better for treatment? He doesn't like the QT from the one time I tried to put him in one (granted it was after a salt dip, but he was fine as soon as I put him back in his normal tank). Also the most water I can change at a time is 1/4, maybe 1/3 in his current tank while I wait for kanaplex. Is this too little? I was going to do 1 a day, don't want to stress him too bad, but I read if he manages to get into the recovery stage large water changes are required.

I'm getting conflicting information on the Epsom salt dose, please help. I've read for the main tank he will be kept in doses ranging from 1/4 tsp per 10 gallons to 2 tbsp per ten gallons?
My fish is still extremely active, only a few scales are starting to lift, does this mean I take it slowly or I treat aggressively?
 
Platylover
  • #15
It’s one tsp per gallon in-tank. I typically just do 1 tbs per 5 gallon as it’s a little less harsh on fish who don’t always handle salt well and it gives you a bit more room as far as overdosing.
1/3 should be ok, but if possible do the 1/2 daily.
A QT may be easier to do waterchanges and such, but if you think it stresses him to much then it may be best to leave him in the tank.
No, you must treat as aggressive as possible, give dropsy any room and it will take it and run with it.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #16
Okay, thank you very much for all the information. Do I do daily water changes while dosing kanamycin? Or do I not continue water changes?
 
Platylover
  • #17
Yes, but you must adjust the dosing each time you do a waterchange.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #18
Okay, thank you. I really appreciate all of the help.
 
Platylover
  • #19
No problem, I hope your goldy makes it!
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #20
One more thing (sorry again), I'm realizing I likely didn't order enough kanaplex to treat the tank while doing water changes, so what are the best ways to make a QT less stressful? Other than throwing in a bunch of anacharis. And it should be bare bottom, correct? Thanks in advance
 
Platylover
  • #21
Bare bottom will make it easier to clean, but not required. I’d suggest adding a few terricotta pots that have been rinsed well with just water, fake plants, and keeping the lights off. When you need the light on for watching him and seeing how he’s doing make sure light as already been on in the room for 10(ish) minutes prior. That way it isn’t a “shock” when the lights come on.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #22
Great, thank you! Now since he is the only fish I have, how should I keep the cycle in the main tank? I'm probably going to move one of the HOB's to the quarantine, should I move the media from the other and just put it at the bottom or something? Or should I leave it in the main in case kanaplex kills all the BB?
 
Platylover
  • #23
I don’t believe keneplex kills BB and you’ll be wanting to run an antibiotic through the main tank anyway, so you might as well just put both filter media into the QT.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #24
Thank you so much for your help I really appreciate it!

Ok one more question (last one I promise lol) could I put live plants in the QT? I'm moving him in today and I have some fake plants, but only one is kinda tall, and I have a huge clump of anacharis I can toss in. Also, just being kind of paranoid, when I was rinsing the terracotta pots one of them just felt kind of weird, I don't know how to describe it, kind of slippery I guess? And the other didn't, I just want to make sure it's still ok to use. I've had them soaking in a bucket with 2x the amount of water conditioner for a while now
 
Platylover
  • #25
Yes, live plants are fine and would be great for QT. Just make sure if he unfortunately passes that when you take down the QT you disinfect the plants before moving them(bleach dip is what I normally do). Slippery? I’ve never had one like that. I’d err on the side of caution and not use it just to be safe.
 
Goldiemom
  • #26
Did anyone catch that there are 0 nitrates? I have heavily planted tanks and even after a w/c there are still some nitrates. Especially with goldfish. If you have 0 nitrates that could be your problem. Perhaps the meds kicked you back into a cycle. IMO, your tank is not cycled. What do others think??
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #27
It's fully cycled and has been for over a month, don't worry. I get less than 5 nitrates a week so after just a few daily water changes I ended up with none
 
Goldiemom
  • #28
Is he in a 10G tank and what type of goldfish is he? Just trying to help you out but need more info.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #29
I thought I had it in my profile, but common single tailed goldfish, 4.5 inches, 60 gallontank, filtration 8x overturn an hour
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate ~0
pH 7.4
Housed with one amano shrimp, maybe one ramshorn, 6 marimo moss balls, a Java ferns, and around 30ft of anacharis
He became sick shortly after moving him into the 60, he developed what at first I thought was columnaris on his mouth, a salt dip in 3% solution for 2.5 minutes did about nothing, people on here advised to treat for costia so I did with Ruby reef kick Ich, great improvement in activity and after a few days great improvement in what I believe was costia. Some remains around his mouth but has disappeared from the rest of his head. There is now a single spot that appears to be Ich which appeared during treatment (I don't even know how), he lost several scales that I can't find, normally I can find them after gravel vacumming the whole tank and then find what ornament(s) may be responsible and remove them. I used carbon to remove the kick Ich, added epsom salt at 1tbsp per 5 gallons, and kanaplex yesterday to the 60
 
Goldiemom
  • #30
I thought the profile said a 10G. Sorry. He is fine for now in a 60G. He really shouldn’t be in with shrimp but I’d be more worried about him eating the shrimp. Lol! I’m still worried about the nitrates because 0 nitrates can actually cause problems of it’s own and bacteria too bringing on its own diseases. I’m gonna do a little research and get back to you. We need to get your friend well!
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #31
Thanks! And I'm sorry, I thought I updated my profile, the ten gallon is a shrimp tank now. The nitrates just went down to ten two days ago, some were always present before then. And I know the shrimp might be eaten, but it's literally half the size of my g.oldy lol. He sits out on top of decorations in the middle of the day and my goldfish just swims past him. I didn't know no nitrates could cause problems, I'll have to look into that as well when I get a chance
 
Goldiemom
  • #32
By the way, I’m treating mine for cloudy eye right now with Melafix and it really is clearing it up fast. I know you treated with Pimafix but have you tried the Melafix? I love goldies and hate to see them suffer.

Hmmm, if the nitrates just went down, it can’t be that yet. Let me think and read...

It looks like the Kanaplex is the best option for the dropsy. I don’t know if anyone else told you, but raise the temp to 80F too if you can get a heater. It helps speed up the treatment.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #33
I haven't heard of raising the temperature, can I ask you a few questions about that? Isn't that worse for goldfish, and if the cause is bacterial, doesn't it make it easier for the bacteria to reproduce? I don't have a space heater, and I probably won't be able to get one until Monday or Tuesday. And I can't really use Melafix because the tank is in my room and when I used Pimafix the smell was really strong from the tea tree oil and it messed with my allergies, and I've been having a few issues with my asthma so I'd prefer to use something else. And thank you for the help!
 
Platylover
  • #34
I’ve also never heard of raising the temp to 80F for dropsy... I wouldn’t reccomend it as even if it does help with treatment some the stress caused by it may be worse than the help it gives, considering Goldie’s are cold water fish.
 
Goldiemom
  • #35
I haven't heard of raising the temperature, can I ask you a few questions about that? Isn't that worse for goldfish, and if the cause is bacterial, doesn't it make it easier for the bacteria to reproduce? I don't have a space heater, and I probably won't be able to get one until Monday or Tuesday. And I can't really use Melafix because the tank is in my room and when I used Pimafix the smell was really strong from the tea tree oil and it messed with my allergies, and I've been having a few issues with my asthma so I'd prefer to use something else. And thank you for the help!
No, don’t use it! I forgot about your asthma. I’m not sure why they tell you to turn the temp up. I guess much like ich, it speeds up the cycle and kills all stages.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #36
Lol it's fine, it wasn't something that had actually come up when I was looking into Pimafix and melafix, it's just when I put it in, I first thought it smelled very nice then I realize it was a tad difficult to breathe... oops. And I am concerned about the added stress, and what do you mean by 'kills all stages'?

Oh and do either of you have some suggestions for good little hiding places since I'm not comfortable with the terracotta pots I got? I have some PVC and silicone, but the silicone takes 24 hours to seal so I won't be able to put it in until tomorrow afternoon if I make something

Does this seem ok for now? He's acting so much better than the last time I tried to QT him it's such a relief. It's only been ten minutes and he's already begging for food when I go near the tank. And I didn't realize what a clump of anacharis in a 60 would translate to in a ten, lol. He seems comfortable, should I still try to make/buy a cave or something? Or should the anacharis suffice?
 

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tellin
  • #37
Wonderful! From my experience with dropsy, you're not out of the woods yet. Dropsy is just a symptom, and the epsom salts provide relief but don't cure the root problem. On the off chance that it's constipation and not dropsy, I'd cut back on food.
 
Goldiemom
  • #38
I’ve also never heard of raising the temp to 80F for dropsy... I wouldn’t reccomend it as even if it does help with treatment some the stress caused by it may be worse than the help it gives, considering Goldie’s are cold water fish.
That’s funny being that everyone had me put my temp up to 86F when mine had ich.
 
Rtessy
  • Thread Starter
  • #39
Ok thanks! And sorry the link didn't work for me, do you have another one? And it doesn't show in the pictures well, but he's still pretty swollen and the scales right behind his gills are sticking out, and a few more do the same each day... I'll feed some peas today and tomorrow though, just in case, thanks!

And the goldfish were fine at 86?
Hm, now that I think about it, I do know someone who keeps their goldfish in a pond outside even when the temp is 90+...
 
Goldiemom
  • #40
This is from an article covering Dropsy on website “ About Goldfish.”
Bacterial Treatment

Slowly raise the water temperature into the low to mid 80s F (27-29oC). This prevents the bacteria multiplying.

I would also add a general bacterial treatment such as Kanaplex or any Kanamycin based medication. Follow the directions on the packet for dosage levels.

Whatever you choose to do, I would recommend you listen to people who raise goldfish and have experience with them. Not me particularly because I’m no expert but raising tropicals and raising Goldie’s are 2 different things.
 

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