Treated betta sorority for Columnaris- didn’t work! HELP!

Hello everyone,

Long story short as I’ve posted already but I have new questions.

I live in Canada and my options to medicate and save fish are very limited. I treated my sorority of Betta fish with Fungus Guard by Tetra containing Nitrofurazone and KanaPlex containing Kanamycin by Seachem. I read in several places that I should use Furan 2 and KanaPlex but Furan 2 is impossible to find here.

My sorority of eight are still alive and all still eating. I also still have them in the hospital tank.
Did this not work because there’s not enough nitrofurazone in Fungus Guard as opposed to Furan 2? I read nothing but miracles when you combine these two medications. Unless there is some thing else that completely copies Columnaris then I don’t know what to do.

Are there other problems that anyone can think of and if so what are they? In one of the last posts I got mostly people telling me about prevention which I already know. The problem is, I can’t prevent it now I need help to fix the problem before it’s too late.

I definitely have one of the longer strains and keeping my female Bettas in the solution and medication a week after they should be taken out I have probably caused more harm to them. I really don’t know what to do so please any answer will help. I am so desperate it’s unbelievable!

One of the main questions I have is once treated with what I mentioned above can I treat them shortly after again or will it simply kill them? Another question I have is I know that Columnaris is already in the water columns of all tanks. So what I don’t understand is why I can’t get rid of an overgrowth by doing several water changes a little bit each day. Why do I read that I have to completely take a part my tanks and clean them with bleach? If it’s already in my tank naturally why wouldn’t several water changes work? I can’t find these answers anywhere and I have spent 50 to 60 hours at this point just researching. So please, again if anyone has anything to say at all you have no idea the appreciation I will have for you. Thank you in advance!

Tiffany

 

Can you attach pictures? I thought my male betta was getting columnaris a few months ago, but it turns out it was chronic lymphocystis (which isn't deadly on its own - only if they get a secondary infection from it). I had to find this out from a nice fishkeeper on Instagram because everyone on here also thought it was columnaris because it's on his back and in his mouth. But it's definitely lymphocystis. Saved me from unnecessarily treating my boy.

 

Hi and thank you for the reply. I will definitely look up chronic lymphocystic When I get home and have more time to research.

I am almost 100% positive that my diagnosis is correct. Aside from the regular symptoms there are other symptoms that developed that they are now doing. Some of those are my bettas are rubbing their bodies against each other, sticking close to the air bubbles, staying near the top of the water, one is extremely bloated which is it also a telltale sign. And then there’s like I said the regular symptoms. One of them looks like it has white lipstick on. I was reading up on the different strains and it looks like I have a strain that can last a very long time and slowly takes them out regardless of treatment. I’m not saying the treatment doesn’t work but you have to almost double dosed them which is definitely harmful to their kidneys and I assume other things. Again thank you for your post and I will search tomorrow when I get home!!
Tiffany

 

Sorry, I didn’t read your older posts………just making sure you don’t have carbon in your filter with the meds?

 

I looked it up and thats definitely not what it is. I’m so sorry you were misdiagnosed. I’m positive it’s Columnaris. A biochemist of all people got the disease and he lost most of his fish. The disease is so confusing that he researched it for a very long time before doing a write up about it and each strain. It looks like I have strain number two out of the four. I still have to finish reading his blog as it’s fairly long and he didn’t provide much information about the third and fourth strains. At least not yet. I sure hope I didn’t accidentally close the tab! I’ll never find it again. All I know is that they are slowly dying from the symptoms. Thank you so much for your help! It seems that no one wants to help anymore or reply to anything that I really need help with and I’ve been posting all over the place. I’m sorry, I’m actually crying right now because I just want to save them and I know I can if I had the right answers and meds! I’m so dedicated to my animals and I’m not working right now so I can literally spend all day and all night doing whatever I need to do. This is Sooooo frustrating!!!

 

Sorry, I didn’t read your older posts………just making sure you don’t have carbon in your filter with the meds?

It’s okay not you’re fault!! Thanks though! And No carbon, just a sponge filter with bio media. I did the treatment correct but I’m thinking they needed just one more and they may have been good to go. Now unfortunately they’re getting worse and money for meds is a bit of an issue as well as how fast I could get them here, especially it being the weekend. I don’t want to destroy their kidneys and livers and whatever else. What would you do? Also my original tank has a bunch of shrimp who are fine, two mystery snails who fine too, a clown pleco who looks healthy and a nerite snail who kinda looks odd… so basically for that tank I need to take it all apart, clean everything (couple different ways I read) and start my cycle over? Or is there any other way… please answer those questions when you have time so I can get started asap and then If the answers are disheartening I have a couple other ideas that might work but I want to know what you think of this first. I cannot even tell you how much I appreciate you responding and helping me! Hope to hear back from you shortly. I think I saw another reply I don’t know if it’s from you or not but I have a couple things to do and then I will read it. Hopefully talk soon!
Oops I didn’t realize these were two different responders! If either of you can help it would be greatly appreciated. Or if you know of someone who’s in expertise in this area I would love to talk to them! Anyone who is willing to help I am willing to listen and explain my situation! I’m just so desperate to save my girls.I’m still very confused about Columnaris Even after all of the research I’ve done. It’s no wonder it’s so difficult to deal with.
And I did have two different responses but they were merged together so now it will be three different responses from my South merged together lol so I apologize for the confusion but the site doesn’t let you choose.

 

Not want to be rude or offensive but to me several of the assumptions made aren't correct.

Meds don't solve an issue, they help the fish to fight the existing issue (one is not desinfecting the tank nor the fish)
Columnaris is in the watercolumn allright but it is not the overgrowth that causes the issue it is the weakness of the fish immunesystem that allows it to multiply on the body. So waterchanges don't solve this after fish got infected.
IMO you've to adress / solve the cause first before treating the fish. Why are the fish "weakened" . Are there to many? Is the tank too small? Are waterconditions or diet causing stress? etc....

I don't tell you you're doing anything wrong but I think you should rethink the approach. Antibiotics are hardly ever (and maybe never) a sollution. In Europe we don't even have antibiotics available but we don't "drown" in Columnaris or other bacterial issues.

 

Not want to be rude or offensive but to me several of the assumptions made aren't correct.

Meds don't solve an issue, they help the fish to fight the existing issue (one is not desinfecting the tank nor the fish)
Columnaris is in the watercolumn allright but it is not the overgrowth that causes the issue it is the weakness of the fish immunesystem that allows it to multiply on the body. So waterchanges don't solve this after fish got infected.
IMO you've to adress / solve the cause first before treating the fish. Why are the fish "weakened" . Are there to many? Is the tank too small? Are waterconditions or diet causing stress? etc....

I don't tell you you're doing anything wrong but I think you should rethink the approach. Antibiotics are hardly ever (and maybe never) a sollution. In Europe we don't even have antibiotics available but we don't "drown" in Columnaris or other bacterial issues.

Hi Double Dutch I completely understand everything you are saying and I’ve explained myself on local sites several times so I suppose I’m just getting tired of it and want answers as to how to help them live at this point.
I have eight female betta sisters who all get along and live in a medium planted 36G tank. To bred these bettas and took good care of them up until recently when I had to go for a hospital stay. These bettas are 10th or 11th bred generation by my friend who gave me a male and a female (not related) so that I could try breeding them. I wound up with getting 26 full grown bettas which wasn’t expected as my friend would only have 10 to 12 make it to adulthood.
back to the hospital stay… I have a chronic condition I found out recently and spent near a month in the hospital while my good friend stayed at my place. When I came home from the hospital the tanks were filthy, my bettas were all severely constipated from being badly over fed and the list goes on. When I got out I also found that the mother had camallanus. My friend Joelle who gave me the bettas to breed had an outbreak of it as well so the entire time she was pregnant and lied her eggs she had it. She also passed it along to the father. I managed to save the mother and also father from camallanus but I don’t know if it did any harm to their fry.
so there are a few things. Also the fact that bettas and live bearers are prone to disease I don’t know what else to tell you. I take care of my pets like they’re my children bc to me that’s what they are.
I have gotten several problems as well from the LPS’s here in my small old city.
again, I don’t want to have to keep explaining to everyone why I think this happened when I am exhausted just trying to save their lives. I hope you can understand that.
At this point I just wish I had a step by step manual as to what to do bc I know they’re saveable. Someone out there knows what I should do and I won’t give up until I find the answers I need or they pass away.

 

There's no such thing as a miracle med, and daily small water changes are not effective due to the dilution effect of mixing liquids.

3x 10% water changes is not the same as 1x 30% water change because each time you do the 10%, you are removing new water mixed into the old water from the last water change. So 3x 10% water change is actually equivalent to 27% water change. The more water changes you do, the greater this dilution effect. For example 10x 10% water changes is only equivalent to 1x 65% water change.

 

I am pretty certain the diagnosis is wrong.

Let me explain:
TRUE Columnaris is a quick killer. It usually kills within days, in most cases I have seen a treatment came too late. I would expect your tank being completely whiped out after two weeks tops. As this is not the case and you haven't had any losses yet (as far as I can tell from your posts) - I doubt it's the problem.

What I suspect here is so-called stress-columnaris, which is a bacterial infection usually caused by opportunistic bacteria of different species, which would have to be identified by a lab to really know the exact species.
The biggest problem with stress-columnaris - Most strains are resistant to antibiotics nowerdays.

As we are talking about a sorority of Betta splendens, and you already say they are 10/11th generation at your friends' which means we're talking 50-100+ generations away from wild fish in a species that has been over- and inbred only comparable to guppy and goldfish in that regard: I would expect very much impaired immune systems one way or another.
The stresslevel might be visibly rather low, but levels of stress hormones (like Cortisol) might be high. You might know Cortisol is an immune suppressant. Hence the columnaris-like infection is by now very much chronic.
And then there is that camallanus issue. It is very much possible the mother had impaired nutrient absorbtion, hence the eggs lacked certain things. Another minus on the fishes immune response.

I am not going by studies here, this is common knowledge among many breeders and wholesalers here. Columnaris is a word thrown around much too often, just like Mycobacterium ("fish-TB") and neon tetra disease. The number of actual cases is significantly lower than the number of cases where people suspect these diseases.

I would be very interested in these factors:
- KH/GH/pH
- food and feeding regimen
- structure of the tank
- maintenance regimen

What I would "prescribe":
As DoubleDutch correctly stated optimizing holding conditions and reducing stress is one pillar of a successful treatment. As I also live in the EU, antibiotics are not available to me, but I have had good results with the following in recent years:

- reduce stocking density
- high-frequency, high-volume waterchanges
- addition of humic substances via IALs and/or alder cone extract
- maybe addition of vitamins
- optimize parameters of the holding conditions one by one if and as necessary - water quality, maybe even water parameters, food, stocking.

Something done by some her is a combination of a concoction of Acriflavin, Methylene blue, Phenyl glycol sold by Sera as "Bactopur" for external disinfection combined with a mix of salts called Ectopur (100 g contain: Natriumcarbonat 2,746 g, Natriumperborat 1,692 g, NaCI ad (= rest) 100 g), which a. tips the scales in the conditions by releasing oxygen and b. makes the fish shed the slime coat and rebuild it. Done in a hospital tank or as a bath while optimizing the other holding conditions seems to show good results, I myself am not a friend of that treatment as it means a lot of netting and moving fish, which I consider contraindicative.

And while I'm at it some answers:

One of the main questions I have is once treated with what I mentioned above can I treat them shortly after again or will it simply kill them?

The meds you used are comparable in their strength to chemotherapy meds for humans. With each subsequent treatment with too little recovery time the chances rise the fish dies from the med.

Another question I have is I know that Columnaris is already in the water columns of all tanks. So what I don’t understand is why I can’t get rid of an overgrowth by doing several water changes a little bit each day.

For one: There is that misconception every opportunistic bacterial infection is declared columnaris. Usually the amounts are miniscule. In case of an outbreak the numbers in the water column rise exponentially as they are released by the infected fish. Small waterchanges do nothing. They only leave the bacteria time to reproduce inbetween while not much has been removed. Hence the waterchanges have to be big and high frequency.

Why do I read that I have to completely take a part my tanks and clean them with bleach?

Because - no offence to many users here - in North America people have a tendency to clean and disinfect everything in the most radical ways for the most ridiculous reasons. This is not based in actual good husbandry, this is a cultural problem. Over here people would only go for such measures when they have a lab result saying their facilities are indeed contaminated with verified highly infective pathogens. So. e.g. a proven case of Mycobacterium marinum or something like that. Otherwise less invasive methods have proven more effective in practice like keeping a tank fishless until parasites have died off or just simply putting it aside dry for a month followed by using H2O2 or diluted vinegar essence, which both break down to less problematic compounds than bleach.

If it’s already in my tank naturally why wouldn’t several water changes work?

They can only reduce the momentary pathogen pressure and influx of new bacteria fom the water column into the fish. The fish still have to battle the infection with their immune system. Almost all measures are to support the fishes own ability to deal with that infection.

 

If you can get your hands on doxycycline, that worked for me.
Just remember to do it in a quarentine tank because it murders benefitial bacteria

 

If you can get your hands on doxycycline, that worked for me.
Just remember to do it in a quarentine tank because it murders benefitial bacteria

Indeed a tank-nuke. And really hard on the inner organs. If the fish are already weakened to a certain degree rather a killer than a cure.
Also a prescription drug in Canada.

 

If you can get your hands on doxycycline, that worked for me.
Just remember to do it in a quarentine tank because it murders benefitial bacteria

Sorry to say but antibiotics aren't stuff to simply "try". This is exctly the way we're getting resistant bacteria in our environment.

 

Hello and Holy moly brain overload! If I had any idea that keeping fish was so difficult I never would have let my friend talk me into it.

I often feel that I’m just not intelligent enough in the science/chemistry department to keep them. I’ve had some tanks that are/were great successes, and others not so much.

I find it interesting that I know several people who keep their tanks near or in direct view of sunlight and have no to few problems. The three tanks I’ve had issues with are all close to the sun and the three tanks I had in my bedroom I never really had any problems with except for one, my 60G got infested with trumpet snails.

a definite problem that I am completely ashamed of is how I dove right in to the hobby, taking the advice of my girlfriend who seemed to have her several tanks in perfect health. A 25 year friendship with no or little boundaries will do that to you. Her and I are no longer friends for several reasons, one being how once I learnt the basics of fish keeping and seeing how she took care of hers literally made me sick to my stomach.

Truth be told is that I have an attachment disorder along with many other symptoms which I just learned of recently. A massive part of me wish I never got into the hobby so quickly or even at all. Lesson learned.

as for my bettas I will definitely fight to the bitter end, giving them 100% of my free time. I did have my male from the siblings pass away (my favourite), named “Sick-Boy” after Trainspotting”, three weeks ago who was living alone in a fully planted 10G to im sorry to say it, Columnaris. I didn’t receive much feedback on that and I did medicate him with Nitrofurazone and Kanamycin but he was way too far past the point of surviving.
my girls on the other hand have a chance and I can see it. They all have the Symptoms of strain 2 and after 60-ish hours hours research this is what I believe with all my heart.

Thank you very much for giving so much of your time to answer all of my questions MacZ. I am so very appreciative of everything you have told me. I’m a bit of a mad scientist myself so I’m going to keep trying. And honestly if you saw my girls who are in the hospital think you were definitely will most likely confirm that they do have Columnaris. I wish I could find the blog that a biochemist wrote. The details were amazing and made me understand the disease so much more and definitely confirmed my belief to 100%. He lost half of his fish to the second strain Which is definitely the strain that I have. If I do end up finding it I would love for you to read it.

Also thank you to everyone else who took the time to reply. It’s 6 AM here and I am exhausted. Time to get some rest! Take care everyone!

Tiffany-Marie

 

Lots of diseases cause similar looking growths. So just because the symptoms match columnaris symptoms, it still doesnt tell us much

 

This is probably the fourth post I’ve made about Columnaris on FishLore a
ALONE. I do not feel like explaining AGAIN nor do I have the time to explain to every single person who wants to know every single symptom of extra sinks Betta fish. I explained it all several times in the beginning. I know my fish have it and that’s all there is to it. It’s getting extremely frustrating because I have been told several times now how it’s all about the prevention which is not helping me whatsoever. I KNOW THAT. Once you do 70 or 80 hours of research and your insomnia is driving you crazy the last thing you want to do is explain to every single last person each and every single symptom of every one of your bettas. When you’re watching your fish slowly die and there’s several answers and all people want to do is lecture you on how to prevent it and tell me it’s not Columnaris and no one will answer the specific questions I am asking it gets pretty frustrating. ONE person answered and I am extremely grateful. If you would like to know the symptoms of each and every single one of my female bettas please feel free to fly down to Canada and look at them yourself. ITS COLUMNARIS.
All I wanted was to know what to do to save them. So I think again the one person that actually took the time to answer those questions. As for the rest of this I am extremely upset at this point. I have literally explained to probably anywhere from 75 people and upward so I apologize that I am very irritated. I just need to cool off. Now watch I am going to get blamed because I am a human and I get upset sometimes.

 

This is probably the fourth post I’ve made about Columnaris on FishLore a
ALONE. I do not feel like explaining AGAIN nor do I have the time to explain to every single person who wants to know every single symptom of extra sinks Betta fish. I explained it all several times in the beginning. I know my fish have it and that’s all there is to it. It’s getting extremely frustrating because I have been told several times now how it’s all about the prevention which is not helping me whatsoever. I KNOW THAT. Once you do 70 or 80 hours of research and your insomnia is driving you crazy the last thing you want to do is explain to every single last person each and every single symptom of every one of your bettas. When you’re watching your fish slowly die and there’s several answers and all people want to do is lecture you on how to prevent it and tell me it’s not Columnaris and no one will answer the specific questions I am asking it gets pretty frustrating. ONE person answered and I am extremely grateful. If you would like to know the symptoms of each and every single one of my female bettas please feel free to fly down to Canada and look at them yourself. ITS COLUMNARIS.
All I wanted was to know what to do to save them. So I think again the one person that actually took the time to answer those questions. As for the rest of this I am extremely upset at this point. I have literally explained to probably anywhere from 75 people and upward so I apologize that I am very irritated. I just need to cool off. Now watch I am going to get blamed because I am a human and I get upset sometimes.

Hi,

You can use the search in the top right and search "columnaris treatment" and read all of the threads, maybe find something you haven't tried yet in there that might work
15 pages of people certain they have columnaris, trying dozens of treatments, and nothing really working to solve the issue.

What they don't try usually? Daily 50% water changes and keeping the tank clean and low as possible nitrates for a month. People are so certain they have columnaris, and so certain it needs a med to fix it, they are unwilling to just water change the heck out of it to bring the water quality up to pristine so the fishes immune systems can actually work and fight it off and kick it out.

meds and treatments just add stress and more fatigue on the fishes immune system, and will run them down eventually. Best course of action really is simply doing the water changes and keeping it clean and as stable the parameters as possible so the fish can focus on fighting what's infecting them to actually get rid of it. even if it cleared up, it's likely one will have something and kjust spread it around again the moment you stop treatments.

I really wish you the best of luck, water changing and keeping the tank and water parameters in line and clean and stable just costs you in time, and is likely the best way to solve any health issue or injury except old age.

 

Hello everyone,

Long story short as I’ve posted already but I have new questions.

I live in Canada and my options to medicate and save fish are very limited. I treated my sorority of Betta fish with Fungus Guard by Tetra containing Nitrofurazone and KanaPlex containing Kanamycin by Seachem. I read in several places that I should use Furan 2 and KanaPlex but Furan 2 is impossible to find here.

My sorority of eight are still alive and all still eating. I also still have them in the hospital tank.
Did this not work because there’s not enough nitrofurazone in Fungus Guard as opposed to Furan 2? I read nothing but miracles when you combine these two medications. Unless there is some thing else that completely copies Columnaris then I don’t know what to do.

Are there other problems that anyone can think of and if so what are they? In one of the last posts I got mostly people telling me about prevention which I already know. The problem is, I can’t prevent it now I need help to fix the problem before it’s too late.

I definitely have one of the longer strains and keeping my female Bettas in the solution and medication a week after they should be taken out I have probably caused more harm to them. I really don’t know what to do so please any answer will help. I am so desperate it’s unbelievable!

One of the main questions I have is once treated with what I mentioned above can I treat them shortly after again or will it simply kill them? Another question I have is I know that Columnaris is already in the water columns of all tanks. So what I don’t understand is why I can’t get rid of an overgrowth by doing several water changes a little bit each day. Why do I read that I have to completely take a part my tanks and clean them with bleach? If it’s already in my tank naturally why wouldn’t several water changes work? I can’t find these answers anywhere and I have spent 50 to 60 hours at this point just researching. So please, again if anyone has anything to say at all you have no idea the appreciation I will have for you. Thank you in advance!

Tiffany

Apart from antibiotics and medication...
You can try lowering your tank temperature and add aquarium salt 1 tsp per gallon...
I would also recommend soaking the fish food in garlic juice once a week....
These things will definitely help.
Soaking the food in garlic juice will increase there appetite(but do it once a week only).
Get rid of any internal or external parasite..
Increase there immunity...
Take a bulb of garlic make a fine paste then sqeeze it through a muslin or cotton cloth to extract the juice... Dip your fish food in that and let it dry for half and hour... then try feeding them...
Soaking the food in garlic juice will increase there appetite(but do it once a week only).
Get rid of any internal or external parasite..
Increase there immunity...
Take a bulb of garlic make a fine paste then sqeeze it through a muslin or cotton cloth to extract the juice... Dip your fish food in that and let it dry for half and hour... then try feeding them...

 

Thank you very much for giving so much of your time to answer all of my questions MacZ.

You're welcome. It was inconsequantial, though, right?

Then good luck.

 

Hi,

You can use the search in the top right and search "columnaris treatment" and read all of the threads, maybe find something you haven't tried yet in there that might work
15 pages of people certain they have columnaris, trying dozens of treatments, and nothing really working to solve the issue.

What they don't try usually? Daily 50% water changes and keeping the tank clean and low as possible nitrates for a month. People are so certain they have columnaris, and so certain it needs a med to fix it, they are unwilling to just water change the heck out of it to bring the water quality up to pristine so the fishes immune systems can actually work and fight it off and kick it out.

meds and treatments just add stress and more fatigue on the fishes immune system, and will run them down eventually. Best course of action really is simply doing the water changes and keeping it clean and as stable the parameters as possible so the fish can focus on fighting what's infecting them to actually get rid of it. even if it cleared up, it's likely one will have something and kjust spread it around again the moment you stop treatments.

I really wish you the best of luck, water changing and keeping the tank and water parameters in line and clean and stable just costs you in time, and is likely the best way to solve any health issue or injury except old age.

Hi Sparky, thank you for your reply. Do you think it’s possible to get them better by doing this do you suppose it’s too late now they are sick?

What I find very strange is that I took such good care of my mail in his 10 gallon and he died an awful death from what I believe to be Columnaris. He always had pristine water and I did weekly changes. He was by himself in there and I never overfed him. He died shortly before my females got sick who were in another tank. I was in the hospital for a month but I told my boyfriend and showed him how many times to take care of my male. When I got out I tested all of his water and the parameters were near perfect. I’ve never had any ammonia problems therefore no nitrite. I can definitely see why my female tank didn’t do so well and I feel very guilty but there’s not much I can do from that far away.

i’m going to lie down for a few hours as I’m exhausted and see if you reply. If you think it’s OK to put them back into their tank I will do that. If not I will keep them in their hospital tank and keep the water as pristine as possible. I after I got out of the hospital and lost my mail I went into a depression because I do suffer from mental health problems and it definitely didn’t help. I did do a 50% water changes soon as I got out on my female tank. I will admit other than my boy, In the past six months I haven’t been the best fish mom and I am filled with guilt. Many times I tested and the nitrates were high even though there are a lot of plants in it.

again thank you for replying so kindly. I think it is probably best to keep them in the hospital tank and do the best to keep the water pristine like you said. I did add extra salt two days ago. They are also all still eating but that doesn’t mean anything. I’m pretty positive that because of all of the problems from before they were born that I didn’t know about the time or a huge cause in this. My 15 gallon endler tank is superb as well.
I should also mention that my eight females are in the hospital tank but in there regular tank I still have the following… One clown Pleco, three Amano shrimp, five cherry shrimp, two mystery snails and a nerite snail. I read so many mixed reviews online about the fact that I’m on Osh shrimp can get Columnaris and even snails too. It’s almost like you need a degree from the University to keep a Aquariums was livestock.

It says online that it takes 32 days for Columnaris to die off without a host. I am wondering if I should move what I have in my 36 gallon somewhere else so that the tank can heal or if I should keep them in there through the process. There are just so many questions it’s unbelievable.

I really do hope to hear back from you soon. Thank you again so much, I’ve received more help on this post than I ever expected.

Lots of diseases cause similar looking growths. So just because the symptoms match columnaris symptoms, it still doesnt tell us much

Columnaris is flat, they do not look like growths. I have 8 girls and they all have different symptoms of it. Some have flat white patches, some have the white lipstick look, some have their mouths slightly open, some have frayed fins (barely), one has a bulgy eye, others eyes are a little sunken in, most stay near the surface, a couple like the bottom, bc of the oxygen issue they get a couple go hang out near the bio filter where’s there’s extra bubbles oxygen, they all still eat but are clearly suffering, I know there’s more I’m just so exhausted I can’t think of them right now. I hope that answers your question. Thanks for your help. I desperately need to go lay down for a bit. And in my previous post when I said that they were 10th or 11th generation, There was never any inbreeding. My friend wanted to keep breeding them because they have the jumping gene so they change colour throughout their lives. OK off to get a few zzz’s! Ttyl!
I really wish they wouldn’t combine the posts the way they do. When I’m trying to reply to a specific person and it often won’t let me. That last major paragraph was for CherryShrimp420

 

Hi PlanetRock, Yes, not only do I think it's possible, I think it's probable that they will get better and that it's not too late to try this.

Columnaris, in a nutshell is a bacterial infection.100% the slow form can be treated with super clean conditions (careful of course of the biological filter and your nitrifying bacteria), and a healthy immune system, and doesn't require medications in order to do that. In fact the meds tend to cause fatigue and stress as the treatments continue and this ends up stressing the fish and their immune system gets run down further.

Clean water, good parameters, food, keeping a stable water temp in their range and stable pH/KH GH, even a little on the warm side of the range that they will tolerate will speed their metabolism causing them to want to eat more...careful on feedings though, not to overfeed of course, but they will want to eat more, and you can go to 3 or 4 small feedings a day, which in theory should put weight on them, which should help them to be strong and boost their immune system. Might be time to gravel vac the bottom also, the bad bacteria is usually lurking down there where the poops go, you really can't keep that too clean.

Food with garlic is also helpful, but not a necessity. it aids in appetite and it has antibacterial and antiparasitic properties. I don't mean to suggest to give them raw garlic in a chunk though that's too much. But foods that contain it in the ingredients or adding some juice from garlic to the food for a week, this helps keep them eating, and putting on weight, which will help them gain strength which will boost their immune system also.

Most to all of these things being done, should in theory with time, allow them to fight it off and recover from it, while the columnaris being unable to infect them, and it will die off/ go dormant.
It takes a good month though, I won't lie. you have to maintain it for a while for the systemic benefits to take hold but you should see improvement, in days to a week, which will steadily improve as a month passes as they get healthier.

the salt doesn't hurt, but not sure if it does much, it should in theory at least help them to stay hydrated and osmotic.

If the meds and stuff you've tried haven't worked, doing the same things again isn't likely to change much except suppress the fish even further.
I believe boosting them up should be tried, give them the best conditions to thrive, a clean tank and water with a low bad bacteria count and low nitrates, put on a little weight and a little strength and a strong immune system, and they can most likely fight this off themselves.

What I suggest causes no stress, in fact it relieves their stress and gives them strength and helps them feel better, which helps them fight the bacterial infection easier.

I really wish you the best of luck on this, and I really believe this can work, it's done wonders on all kinds of bacterial infections with my fish over the years. Slight improvement should happen quite quickly, and become more evident as the days pass and they get stronger and healthier again.