Tragedy over the weekend...

Discussion in 'Betta Breeding' started by Red1313, Mar 28, 2010.

  1. Red1313

    Red1313Fishlore VIPMember

    Well I'm not really sure how to start this post. I was gone just over 48 hours (Fridday 5pm to Sunday at 6 pm) and I lost 3 of my breeders, possibly a fourth by later tonight and I have no idea why. The Casualties are, my Red HM pair (Blase and Heels) and my Cambo female (Munchkin). At the time of this writing I'm not sure if my dragon boy Draco, will pull through.

    I can't figure out what's wrong. When my fish sitter (aka best friend) saw this she freaked. Over the phone it she said she thought that it was the heaters. When I got here tonight the heaters were fine, temps weren't too high. I couldn't test the water in the containers that the three losses were in because the fish had been left in there and that would throw the ammonia readings off. I tested Draco's water (and all three remaining had 100% water changes) but his ammonia was only (maybe) 0.6.

    I haven't been able to get ahold of Megan since I've gotten home but hopefully I can find out if she'd done WC's etc. (she had brought the dixie cups I'd forgotten over so I know that she was going to.) The only thing I can think of was originally a bacterial issue (2 of the fish were from the same farm and the 3rd sometimes shared equip. with them since she was planned to be paired with one of them. ) However with Draco sick (and I know I NEVER mixed Draco with anything from Blaze's) The only thing I can think of is the plastic containers. They're plastic sterelite containers but I didn't think that they had anything that would leach out of the plastic....

    Just... really not in a good place right now. It's been a long week, with far far too much bad news :(
  2. bolivianbaby

    bolivianbabyFishlore LegendMember

    I'm so sorry for your losses, Red. I really hope Draco pulls through for you.

    You're in our thoughts and big hugs from GA:;hug2
  3. navyscuba

    navyscubaWell Known MemberMember

    That is so sad Red I'm sorry.:;hug2 Some like that happen to one of my friends in the LFS he usually got the angels from a place in GA but he found some lady that got them from south Florida and within a week he lost all the angels on his tanks except the ones from the lady. Come to find out they came from Thailand and were infected with a virus that affected only the ones that were not from Thailand.
  4. Furallicah

    FurallicahWell Known MemberMember

    I'm sorry to hear Red...Did you wash the containers before you used them? Do think if you did that maybe some of the cleaner staying in the containers?....other then that idk. I dont think a sudden ammonia level of .6 would kill everyone like that so quickly.
  5. OP

    Red1313Fishlore VIPMember

    Thanks guys <HUGS>
    Navy, a virus is a possibility but all the fish were in QT so the only thing they were "sharing" was the bath all their containers were in to keep the temps right. And the only Survivors are a female from one breeder and the male from another. The rose tail pair from the Ontario breeder (where Munchkin was from) are both fine as well.

    Furallicah, I rinsed the containers prior to putting the kid's in there last wednesday, and they're been getting (100%) WC's every other day since then with the containers being rinsed with clean water each time prior to being re-filled.

    Talked to Megan and she and her room-mates came over to do WC's for me Saterday, normal procedure, scoop, dump, rinse, fill, dechlorinate, float, release. Everything went fine, when she came to feed them today 3 of them were gone...

    The toxicity angle doesn't seem to work since megan did the WC's.
    Maybe Navy has it with the virus angle...
  6. Furallicah

    FurallicahWell Known MemberMember

    Hmm, maybe it could be a virus. What are the symptoms you are seeing with Draco?
  7. rae64

    rae64Well Known MemberMember

    Oh no! That is terrible news, I am so sorry red.... what could have happened?
  8. critter_fritter79

    critter_fritter79Well Known MemberMember

    Oh Red, I am SO sorry! I know from personal experience how devastating it is to lose one of your babies at all, but it is so much worse when you lose so many and have no idea why! Was Drake from the same shipper as any of the ones that have passed already? I am wondering if it is some form of bacterial infection. If he came to the same trans shiper as one of the others, it could be that the bacteria was spread during all the shipping procedures...When mine had the bacterial infection, they didn't show any symptoms until about 8 hours before the end, but my blue boy I got from MM was going downhill fast but within an hour of me adding the erythromycin he perked back up ad is now doing great...If there is anything I can do, just give me a yell! :;hug2
  9. pamd

    pamdWell Known MemberMember

    Red, I am so sorry to hear of your losses, and hope Draco pulls through.

    Could there have been a sudden temperature change, such as pouring in water at a very different temperature from the tank water? That's my first guess, since there seemed to be a "problem" with the heater when there apparently wasn't when you got back home.

    Next guess: It could have been a cross contamination issue. Some viruses and bacteria can live in a few drops of water, and your kindly, obviously well-meaning, fish sitter (plus her roommates) might have been a bit less than fastidious about washing their hands, not using cups and other equipment between tanks, etc.

    How come 100% water changes? What's "float" mean in the routine?

    Just guesses, and I certainly hope you find some clues as to what went wrong.

    Again, I am sooooo sorry.:;group
  10. OP

    Red1313Fishlore VIPMember

    Thanks guys.

    There are no physical symptoms, physically all the kids looked fine. Draco was basically laying on the bottom of the container you nudged it and he'd get up and swim to the surface and look perfectly fine, maybe a little doopy but a few moments later he was back on the bottom of the tank. It's sunday so everything is closed (I just tried making a run to petsmart) I'm going to go and check on him but I don't have much hope...

    Critter: All the Thai kids are from the same transhipper (there's only 1 in Canada) but the three fish from the one breeder had deeply stained water while the 2 fish from the other had water that was nearly clear. I suspect that the transhipper didn't open the bags after he recieved them but merely checked for deads and kept them warm until he shipped them out to be. The other female was from the Ontario breeder so no contact with the Thai kids other then being in the same bath as the other two females...

    Pam: All the breeders are in QT so each were in a 2.5 gallon plastic container with approximately 2 gallons of water. The 3 males were in 1 "bath" and the 3 females in another. The bath's were larger containers with a water and heater to heat everyone. Since there wasn't any water movement the container's closest to the heater tended to be a bit warmer then the containers at the other end hence Megan's thought that the heaters weren't working. However the thermometer was on the far end from the heater and in both baths had the same reading. Since none of the containers were filtered I was catching each fish in a seperate cup, and then placeing the cup in the bath and just dumping the two gallons of water in their container, rinsing it then refilling it. I'd them float the cup in the container while the water equilibriated and clean the next tub. By the time I was done the 2nd tub the first was at the right temperature and even with the cup so the boy was returned to his home.

    I just checked Draco and he's still dopey but I don't know what to treat him with. I have a few different meds here but I don't know which to use since there aren't any external symptoms :(
  11. pepetj

    pepetjWell Known MemberMember

    Sorry to hear that Red. A tough day for you today. Hope you manage to save the Dragon Scale.

    Santo Domingo
  12. Lucy

    LucyModeratorModerator Member

    :;group I'm so sorry red :(
  13. OP

    Red1313Fishlore VIPMember

    Thanks Pepetj, Thanks Lucy

    EDIT: I have Erythromycin, Tetracycline, and Triple Sulfa on hand here. I don't think that he's gonna pull through this on his own he's gone down hill even with fresh water...
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2010
  14. Furallicah

    FurallicahWell Known MemberMember

    You could just treat with a general internal medication...if there are no external signs then we have to suspect that maybe the problem is internal. Other then that said the water was fine other then the .6 ammonia....idk...I'm so sorry I feel helpless. Maybe though the ammonia was higher while you were gone? Is it possible?
  15. OP

    Red1313Fishlore VIPMember

    I just dosed him with 5mL (1/4 of a packet dissolved in 20mL of water) of Tetracycline (it says it treats both internal and external bacterial infections) I hope it helps :(
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2010
  16. Tigerfishy

    TigerfishyWell Known MemberMember

    I hope he pulls through. The fish are lovely, please let us know. :;hug2
  17. shellbell4ever

    shellbell4everWell Known MemberMember

    So sorry for your loss red :(
  18. Amanda

    AmandaFishlore VIPMember

    I'm SO sorry Red. :(
  19. LyndaB

    LyndaBFishlore LegendMember

    I'm so sorry for your loss. :console:
  20. Goldwing_Don

    Goldwing_DonWell Known MemberMember

    Sorry for your losses Red :(