Help Three Tanks Affected, Swollen Head

[Truckjohn]

So indian almond leaf was first then lemon balm second in their study?

I have seen a lot of people recommend the use of indian almond leaves when keeping bettas.... Unfortunately - these are fairly expensive if you can't grow them.

Have you had any success with this?

 

[angelcraze]

After looking into it i don’t think it’s likely since there is no sign of hemorrhaging. I did find an interesting science doc on the disease and the use of catappa as and antibiotic
https://www.oceandocs.org/bitstream/handle/1834/15109/IFRO-v18n2p349-en.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Oh I think John's bettas were hemorrhaging. I agree, I also use capatta leaves all the time and particularly when I see a problem. They certainly won't hurt anyway! Still hoping for your fishies!

@Truckjohn I use capatta leaves for finrot or anything external, my fish heal well. I also do daily water changes and sometimes use StressCoat to help replenish slime coat.

 

[Truckjohn]

It's all sorts of weird problems which are probably all related to oneanother.

For example - a day after I started API General Cure + EM - the betta that currently has face sores pooped out a bunch of white stringy stuff... This leads me to believe that the face sores are a secondary problem which is related to the parasitic infestation....

I am starting to think that we probably ought to be dosing an antibiotic at the same time as an anti-parasitic... Those things leave a lot of wounds when they die/release/come out... That's an opportunity for a secondary infection which then kicks off Dropsy or something else bad....

 

[angelcraze]

So hard to diagnose at home. Stingy white poop doesn't always mean internal parasite. Could be the fish just isn't feeling well, a result of using some meds, constipation.....

The best thing to do to prevent secondary infections is to keep water quality pristine. It can be difficult when using meds like antibiotics since they work on nitrifying bacteria as well, but I would be doing water changes as I need to and testing daily to keep the quality up.
PS I don't use antibiotics at all.

 

[Truckjohn]

I did not ever use antibiotics prior to this either but nothing was working and fish kept dying.

 

[angelcraze]

I did not ever use antibiotics prior to this either but nothing was working and fish kept dying.

That's fine John, I just don't know that much about using them besides what I can read about.

 

[Demeter]

To add a little more, here's some pics of my own bettas who have the same issue. It seems to only effects the head and gills. Gills appear thickened then it looks as if they start eroding. The head starts getting small sores, the scales pinecone around them and bleed easily. A couple ended up with dropsy at the later stages. I've been euthanizing those that get the sores and dropsy as I can't stand to watch them suffer, they mope around and seem in agony.

This girl has had it the longest, she's in her own tote with cherry shrimp and snails. Her mouth has been eroded and her gills are puffy. I haven't noticed any progression in her case, she acts totally normal.

Thickened left gill in this young betta


This big girl's left cheek is protruding. I just fed them so they all look fat.


I'm on my second dose of General Cure and so far nothing seems to of changed. I'll be adding IAL after treatment ends and I do a water change. I've previously tried a few salt baths, Methylene blue, Tetra parasite and life guard, prazipro and kanaplex on previous bettas. I think I need to be more thorough with water changes, wiping down the glass and doing better gravel vacs. I should mention the other non-betta tank mates have no issues.

 

[angelcraze]

You know, I have a GBR that suddenly looks like she had puffy gills, more so on one side. Nothing else though that I can see....
I'll have a closer look at her mouth. If this is the same thing, I have not added anything new in 1.5 years. Maybe a couple plants....

I was thinking it was bacterial in my case since I went a little too long before cleaning the filter (I think). All I've done so far was keep everything clean with siphoning and water changes. She is doing ok despite the enlarged gills, but would love to know for sure what's going on. I didn't put it together until now.

 

[trahana]

You might try metroplex by food. General cure adds metro, but I hear it’s better to be taken internally. I think what I am dealing with is an internal parasite, but you might have Gill mites or some sort of anchor worm. It sounds like it’s eating the gills.
I think there is a secondary infection which often kills the fish. With delta he is strong and healthy and hasn’t had an infection in his life, which I think is why he’s still fighting.

My sorority is divided now, I think my red betta was the weakest since sororities tend to be stressful even if there is no noticeable injuries from fighting. This was inevitable to me, since one of my four sorority girls was blind, I knew I would divid it if one died. I am surprised it lasted two years with a blind fish, since bettas are like aquatic wolves and prey on the weak.

My metroplex came today, I’ll start feeding it in a bit.

 

[trahana]

You know, I have a GBR that suddenly looks like she had puffy gills, more so on one side. Nothing else though that I can see....
I'll have a closer look at her mouth. If this is the same thing, I have not added anything new in 1.5 years. Maybe a couple plants....

I was thinking it was bacterial in my case since I went a little too long before cleaning the filter (I think). All I've done so far was keep everything clean with siphoning and water changes. She is doing ok despite the enlarged gills, but would love to know for sure what's going on. I didn't put it together until now.

Where did you get your plants?
I too added plants a month before this disease out break.
Before that, the last fish I added was four months ago.

 

[DIYbetta]

So I had the same problem with my betta. It made her look like a parrot cichlid! It resolved, but every time something stressful happens, it reappears.

 

[trahana]

So I had the same problem with my betta. It made her look like a parrot cichlid! It resolved, but every time something stressful happens, it reappears.

Did you medicate or did it resolve itself?
By stressful, do you mean changing environment, poor water quality, or change of food?
Where there sores, open or not, or just a general swelling of the face?

 

[DIYbetta]

It resolved itself, it wasn’t open though. When I mean stressful I mean I do to large a water change, drop something in the tank, or move stuff around.

 

[angelcraze]

Where did you get your plants?
I too added plants a month before this disease out break.
Before that, the last fish I added was four months ago.

I'm in Canada, I got them at a little LFS shop and Petsmart. That's a good idea to feed her meds, tx. I just don't feel it's necessary yet, I'm watching her closely though. She's quite old for a GBR at 3 years old (had her for 2.5 years), but I think I'd put her into a hospital tank if things get worse, just because I have the resources and leaned how to do a QT tank when I need it.

I did read about some bacteria that attacks gills when there is a lot of mulm on the bottom. Idk if that's what happened or what, but so far it seems isolated to her. Idk if it's the same issue, but I mentioned it in case. No sores btw, just open gills (more on one side).

 

[trahana]

I'm in Canada, I got them at a little LFS shop and Petsmart. That's a good idea to feed her meds, tx. I just don't feel it's necessary yet, I'm watching her closely though. She's quite old for a GBR at 3 years old (had her for 2.5 years), but I think I'd put her into a hospital tank if things get worse, just because I have the resources and leaned how to do a QT tank when I need it.

I did read about some bacteria that attacks gills when there is a lot of mulm on the bottom. Idk if that's what happened or what, but so far it seems isolated to her. Idk if it's the same issue, but I mentioned it in case. No sores btw, just open gills (more on one side).

The mulm is just decomposing matter. Bacteria attack whether or not mulm is there. Otherwise no pond fish would survive since they live in mulm.
After looking into the species that is an older fish. I’m not used to fish that only live three years, my black skirt tetra is supposed to live 3-5 years, yet I have two and the youngest I purchased more then five years ago. Disease strikes, the minnows die. The really old tetra? They don’t care, they are so old they have cloudy eyes and are healthy as ever. I swear they will be the last fish to die if Everything goes wrong.
It’s probably just quirky aging. One of my tetras lived to be 6.5 years old with little bits of cancer on her(I called her Granny). When my tetra got older the Gill flap shrunk a bit and I could see her gills more, which weirded me out at first but a year later and still alive. It’s odd.
Delta is still feisty and food happy. Maybe more so. No facial improvement.

 

[angelcraze]

Tx. I have old tetras too, many of them lived to be about 7. I still have three of them, 2 of them are red phantoms that I honestly can't even remember when I got them! I got my 6 lemon tetras full grown as a rescue in 2013. I only have 1 left, but they most lived past 2018. They also developed cloudy eyes as they aged and a lot of them wasted in the end. (but that could have been parasite damage cuz there was an infestation in their tank). I had this one black phantom I got around the same time as the red phantoms, that developed tumors as well, she lived with obvious tumors for at least 2 years and still outlived the rest of the school at 6 or 7 years old.

I love rams, but the short lifespan is a bummer. Good breeders are trying to selectively breed for longer lifespans. I think so too, i'm not too alarmed unless I see something else or she looks/acts sick. I should be QTing my plants better, maybe I will now.

Anyway, sounds like a lot of similar stuff that just happen with old age fish. Thanks for sharing your experience

 

[Truckjohn]

@trahana any improvements in yours?

@angelcraze I have been pretty surprised how fast injuries heal assuming there is no primary underlying disease problem/cause for them staying nasty. One new betta is particularly curious about squishing herself into every tiny crack and crevice she might be able to get into... She dings up her fins and scales - yet it's healed back up in 2 or 3 days.

The green one has a funny "popeye" look on the one side now due to the fact that the flesh over her eye was completely gone all the way to her skull. It took a week to heal over with new scales in her case due to the extent of the tissue loss (it looked like her eye was sticking out of her body due to flesh loss). I am guessing that her head will continue to fill back out around her eye as time progresses...

 

[angelcraze]

Great news When you provide great water quality and nutritious foods, it doesn't take long it's true! My electric blue ram lost her tail completely to nipping and then finrot, it was eroding the flesh! It healed up in a week, totally healed in 2 weeks, grew her whole tail back perfectly! Amazing fish

 

[trahana]

@Truckjohn No new symtoms have revealed themselves. Delta is still stable, and I'm going to set up a 10g tank so I can safely treat him. I don't think I can quarter GC to treat his little 2.5 tank.

On fun stories, Shimmer, my female betta that I raised as a baby betta, she grew up and then her fins kept growing! She has a fabulous tail like a male, but has the eggspot and even had breeding bars when she was in her prime.

 

[angelcraze]

Yikes sorry got mixed with OPs! Glad Delta is still fighting and hope the 10g treatment goes well

That's an interesting story about Shimmer, tx for sharing How is she doing lately?