Three Tanks Affected, Swollen Head Help 

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trahana

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angelcraze said:
Glad to hear that about Delta :) Sounds like he's on the mend!
About your red girl, you are doing what you can, very thoughtful sling you have made. Are you dosing kanaplex for her too?
My red girl died last night. I think she was to far gone to save.
My blue girl also died, though her only symptoms where a swollen belly and swim bladder.
Two minnows in my community tank are sick one is dying with dropsy symptoms and the other is skinny and listing.

Considering furan2 didn’t work, I’m dosing Kanaplex by food, while dosing the three main tanks with ich meds(malachite green).
It’s highly possible the disease started in the community tank and I didn’t notice due to the plants. I have fewer minnows then I think I had. Not that I can properly count them.
I have my three shrimp in a bucket now, since the meds aren’t invertebrate friendly.
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Delta is continuing to look better! The swelling under his eye is going down.
 

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I'm so very sorry for your losses :( Still glad Delta is looking better though! Something is for sure off, I really hope it all balances out for you.

Sometimes meds only complicate the issue. Idk if you are done with meds, but if you are, clean fresh water is the best medicine. I say that so much I feel like a broken record, but it's one the most fundamental practices I follow.
 
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trahana

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angelcraze said:
I'm so very sorry for your losses :( Still glad Delta is looking better though! Something is for sure off, I really hope it all balances out for you.

Sometimes meds only complicate the issue. Idk if you are done with meds, but if you are, clean fresh water is the best medicine. I say that so much I feel like a broken record, but it's one the most fundamental practices I follow.
Thank you.
Unfortunately I don’t think clean water will help in this case, I feel it’s a parasite I can’t see causing reactions in the fish. The salt treatment is having a good effect but until his face is all better I’m going to hold my breath.
 

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trahana said:
Thank you.
Unfortunately I don’t think clean water will help in this case, I feel it’s a parasite I can’t see causing reactions in the fish. The salt treatment is having a good effect but until his face is all better I’m going to hold my breath.
Ok, hope he pulls through.
 

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Keep us updated on your progress and what works.

I have 4 bettas in my quarantine tank with the *SAME* problem going on (started a post over on the disease board.) Tried Tetra Lifeguard for 6-days with zero results.

The main tank just got pimafix and melafix to (hopefully) minimize it in there.

I actually took a couple of the sick bettas out and laid them on wet paper towel to see if I could get a closer look under a magnifying glass. I found the raggedy head and funny looking bumps were open sores which were bleeding. I did not find any external parasites which were visible under 12x magnification. I also found localized scale loss and loose scales.

I am now on day 2 of Aquarium salt + API Fin and Body Cure to see if that helps.
 
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trahana

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Truckjohn said:
Keep us updated on your progress and what works.

I have 4 bettas in my quarantine tank with the *SAME* problem going on (started a post over on the disease board.) Tried Tetra Lifeguard for 6-days with zero results.

The main tank just got pimafix and melafix to (hopefully) minimize it in there.

I actually took a couple of the sick bettas out and laid them on wet paper towel to see if I could get a closer look under a magnifying glass. I found the raggedy head and funny looking bumps were open sores which were bleeding. I did not find any external parasites which were visible under 12x magnification. I also found localized scale loss and loose scales.

I am now on day 2 of Aquarium salt + API Fin and Body Cure to see if that helps.
Delta my Male Betta may have 1 open sore, it’s hard to tell since I don’t have a microscope. His face swelling looks like it has all his scales, and is well defined with out and fuzzy edges.
All of my sick fish except delta have died.
The hard thing about diagnosis is that all my fish has had somewhat different symptoms.

TruckJohn, have you looked up Tuberculosis in fish? Right now I’m know if delta dies I will get a necropsy done on him. It cost only $52, and they will test for TB. If you have many fish sick you might want a necropsy just in case.
Salt treatment seems to have stabilized my fish, but progress is slow. I do suggest KanaPlex if they are bleeding sores, that could be an internal infection. All my infected tanks are getting Kanaplex in their food now. I stopped the malachite green treatment because my minnows where looking stressed, their gills were so flushed I could see them through their semi transparent bodies. Everyone gets salt treatment instead.

For the salt I’m using the same treatment as suggested in the culmanarius pinned thread. 1 tsp per gallon added three times for a total of 3 teaspoons per gallon.
 

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Any updates on your progress? Mine is not going well except that the fish with the weird sores are still alive.
 
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trahana

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Truckjohn said:
Any updates on your progress? Mine is not going well except that the fish with the weird sores are still alive.
I went to a conference and was away for three days. When I came back the kuhli loaches where hiding, and when I found one it was light, I decided it was an obvious sign of stress. Since they are a scaleless fish I removed 50% water and didn't add salt back in. I think the amount of salt a Kuhli loach can handle is lower then what people often say. I had about 1 tsp per gallon, and they showed obvious signs of stress at ... 5 days? possibly sooner since I wasn't home.
Thankfully no fish besides Delta is under the weather with our mysterious disease.
Delta's face has an obviously an open sore now. I can see some red spots on his otherwise blue-silver face. I don't think the salt has done much except but keep him alive. There has been no improvement.
It doesn't look good, since TB often has legions/open sores. It is possible to survive TB, but since it can be transmitted to humans people often opt to euthanize. I'm not sure what I will do if it turns out to be TB.

I'm going to start dosing the 40g with melafix/pimafix since I've tested that on my fish with no adverse effects before. The Hillstream loaches haven't been tried on it, but the kuhli are fine with it, and it will probably help them recover.
 

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The disappointing part for me is that the two fish with the sores are still hanging in there while all the others with various maladies basically died. Sort of the opposite of what I was expecting to happen.
 
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trahana

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Truckjohn said:
The disappointing part for me is that the two fish with the sores are still hanging in there while all the others with various maladies basically died. Sort of the opposite of what I was expecting to happen.
I know, I had one with no obvious issues, just a swollen belly and then suddenly she died two days later. then the two minnows died just two days after I noticed their issues. And yet, Delta, the first one to show signs is still hanging in there.
Well, on the plus side my water is pristine. I keep testing and the nitrates are below 10ppm now. No nitrites or ammonia, which is something I need to keep checking since medications can cause an established tank to cycle over again.
 
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A photo update.
02e4a4afbfa3a21a7fbd0ae51cbdeca2.jpg

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Delta is still food motivated. No obvious changes, he is as active as normal.

Behavior changes in Shimmer, my oldest betta, she is in the divided tank that had my blue female that died. Shimmer is acting unwell, she has a harder time finding food and taking big gulps of air before sitting on the gravel floor. The sitting part doesn’t worry me much, but usually she sits on a leaf or stem plant. I think her eyes might be effected. Might just be old age, which is what I’m hoping: Shimmer is older then 4 years.
 
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I have a white cheeked goby in my community tank that is dashing itself on the gravel to itch. I will try using api general cure as a half dose. I hear kuhli loaches are tolerant of praziquantel in half dose.

TruckJohn has bettas with similar symptoms to delta that might have hole in the head, so tomorrow I will be attempting to find a medicine for hole in the head that can be used to dose a 2 gallon tank.
No other changes: Delta is still food driven and active.

Quarantine is necessary, I will never add another snail, fish, or plant without it.
 

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One of my favorite females has just recently started getting the swollen cheek like your boy's. The I have a pair of siblings male and female from last year's spawn that are also effected but both are going strong. They don't have the puffy cheek/gills but instead their mouth was effected. Both have are living in separate tanks with only bottom feeders for company and both behave like happy begging bettas.

Almost wonder if it may be viral. New diseases are bound to show up from time to time what with importing from all over the world. Someone would have to do lab tests to really figure out what the problem is.
 

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I don't think it's HITH though. It's brought on by poor water quality and/or poor nutrition. Or it's caused by a parasite Spironucleus (Hexamita) which usually puts cichlids at risk, not usually a betta thing. I could be wrong, just my thoughts.

Sorry to hear about Shimmer. This is a very contagious problem. So frustrating that nothing is working :( Would love to get to get to the bottom of it.

Just to let you know, Epsom Salts in the feed can be a treatment for Hexamita. Also Metro in the feed. Dosing the water with Metro is difficult because it has a short shelf life and doesn't dissolve well. Much more effective to lace the food, especially if the fish are still eating. Improving water quality (not an issue here from what I can tell) and adding vitamins are other treatments for HITH.

Were the bettas ever together or in the same tank or in the community tank? Also how are the plants handling the salt?
 
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trahana

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angelcraze said:
I don't think it's HITH though. It's brought on by poor water quality and/or poor nutrition. Or it's caused by a parasite Spironucleus (Hexamita) which usually puts cichlids at risk, not usually a betta thing. I could be wrong, just my thoughts.

Sorry to hear about Shimmer. This is a very contagious problem. So frustrating that nothing is working :( Would love to get to get to the bottom of it.

Just to let you know, Epsom Salts in the feed can be a treatment for Hexamita. Also Metro in the feed. Dosing the water with Metro is difficult because it has a short shelf life and doesn't dissolve well. Much more effective to lace the food, especially if the fish are still eating. Improving water quality (not an issue here from what I can tell) and adding vitamins are other treatments for HITH.

Were the bettas ever together or in the same tank or in the community tank? Also how are the plants handling the salt?
From my understanding hole in the head isn't species restrictive though. It might be diet related, I've been feeding mostly thawed blood worms. I though bloodworms had enough nutrients, but that isn't much variety, so its possibly my betta is missing something in his diet. Lately I've been feeding him crushed bottom feeder pellets dosed with Kanaplex. I'll order Metroplex today, and hopefully something good happens.
As it is, he could have fish TB, which means nothing good. so I'm grasping at straws to save his life.

The bettas shared a plastic dropper to feed them the bloodworms. I've stopped using it, and have started feeding with my fingers. Good thing the bettas are already used to my hands being in the tank.

High levels of salt are only recommended for 2 weeks so I've started changing the water to reduce the salt. So far the plants hate it, but most of them will survive. Extra Dose of fertilizers for them.

I think shimmer is fine. She must have not liked the bubbler I added to her tank. I turned down the air and she's acting more normal now. Its not that she's fragile, its that I treat her like she's fragile.
 

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Yea I didn't mean to imply it's species specific, just not normally a betta thing. I'm not thinking it was brought on by poor water quality of nutrition since more than one fish got it and with a high mortality rate. It could be caused by a parasite, in that case, the metro and Epsom Salts in food is the best treatment. Metro is also a gram negative antibiotic and treats against some gram positive bacteria as well..

I'm hoping so much you see improvement or at least figure it out since it might be bothering other fish too.
 

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So somewhere in my medication rodeo - I managed to cure the sores.,..

But I found *another* fish in the main tank with face sores. Time to punt.

So now I am treating the main tank with API General Cure + Erythromycin as that is where I saw the major improvement. Hopefully it doesn't kill everything else in the tank.
 
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trahana

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angelcraze said:
Noticed this post and thought of you two.

https://www.fishlore.com/aquariumfishforum/threads/whats-going-on-with-my-german-blue-ram.424745/post-4309961
He says 'especially near the eyes and gills'. Also known as septicemia causing ulcers.
After looking into it i don’t think it’s likely since there is no sign of hemorrhaging. I did find an interesting science doc on the disease and the use of catappa as and antibiotic
https://www.oceandocs.org/bitstream/handle/1834/15109/IFRO-v18n2p349-en.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y
 
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