Thinking About a Walstad Tank

I'm thinking of making a walstad tank, but I've never had a tank that I didn't need a filter before. It would be either a 2.5 gallon or 5 gallon. I'll move my betta to it as well (and maybe get some ghost shrimp), since I want to use that tank for pea puffers (there's a lot of snails). Are there any recommendations for substrate or soil? Are there any lighting requirements, or does it just depend on the plants? I'm terrible at aquascaping but I'm willing to give it another shot.

 

Organic topsoil mixed with a little 10/10/10 cowmanure or worm castings and small amount of a medium sized gravel.
Cap with whatever sand you like...make a ring of your cap material around the edge of aquarium so you don't have soil touching glass.

I would get the best/ most lighting you can afford.

You need some water movement..a bubbler at least. If there's no current things go south pretty quick.

 

Organic topsoil mixed with a little 10/10/10 cowmanure or worm castings and small amount of a medium sized gravel.
Cap with whatever sand you like...make a ring of your cap material around the edge of aquarium so you don't have soil touching glass.

I would get the best/ most lighting you can afford.

You need some water movement..a bubbler at least. If there's no current things go south pretty quick.

I'm looking on Amazon for bubblers or air stones, but all the ones I see are too strong. I actually have an air stone but it was wayyy too strong and really loud. I'm trying to find something relatively quiet.

 

Cap off your air hose and poke 8-10 pin holes on the end above the cap

 

Cap off your air hose and poke 8-10 pin holes on the end above the cap

Ok thanks. Would peat moss be alright in place of the soil, or is it not enough nutrients for the plants. I already have a lot of it, so it would be nice to save money if I can.

 

Don't need any water movement with a betta in such a small tank. Just make sure to plant well. You can add an air stone if you want though, but it doesn't really add anything (and make sure the stream of bubbles isn't strong. A 2.5 is really small and bettas hate lots of surface agitation).

Also would advice against putting manure in your soil unless you know what you are doing. I put a little bit of regular (fertilised) potting soil on my substrate once and it was leaching massive amounts of ammonia for months.

Shrimp do amazing with this kind of set-up, and actually help keep a filterless tank in order by consuming plant waste and other organic debris.

If you are going zero tech, make sure not select very strong lighting as you will likely end up battling algae. Also look into different types of plants and make sure you base your plant choice on these (include enough fast-growers and an emersed plant is strongly recommended).

 

Don't need any water movement with a betta in such a small tank. Just make sure to plant well. You can add an air stone if you want though, but it doesn't really add anything (and make sure the stream of bubbles isn't strong. A 2.5 is really small and bettas hate lots of surface agitation).

Also would advice against putting manure in your soil unless you know what you are doing. I put a little bit of regular (fertilised) potting soil on my substrate once and it was leaching massive amounts of ammonia for months.

Shrimp do amazing with this kind of set-up, and actually help keep a filterless tank in order by consuming plant waste and other organic debris.

If you are going zero tech, make sure not select very strong lighting as you will likely end up battling algae. Also look into different types of plants and make sure you base your plant choice on these (include enough fast-growers and an emersed plant is strongly recommended).

I might have a spare desk lamp that isn't too bright. So would the peat moss be okay? It would help my pH since it's like 8.2, but I don't know if it'll be good enough for growing the plants.

 

I might have a spare desk lamp that isn't too bright. So would the peat moss be okay? It would help my pH since it's like 8.2, but I don't know if it'll be good enough for growing the plants.

Hmmm. Peat moss is traditionally used to seriously lower your PH (as in, to <5), so I wouldn't use it unless you also plan on using R/O or rainwater. Because otherwise water changes will lead to serious parameter swings every time as your tap water will be rather different from the settled tank water. Also the amount of peat moss you would need to allow plants to properly root will probably turn your water solid black.
AKA I wouldn't advise it in this case.

 

Theres peat on organic potting soil...and manure.

I like organic TOP soil and mix in a couple cups manure or worm castings and add a few handfulls of gravel.

The water.movement isn't for the fishes sake...you need some kind of energy in the system or you get a lot of biofilm on the surface and stuff takes forever to root...because it isn't being encouraged to root and nutrient don't move around in the water.

 

Hmmm. Peat moss is traditionally used to seriously lower your PH (as in, to <5), so I wouldn't use it unless you also plan on using R/O or rainwater. Because otherwise water changes will lead to serious parameter swings every time as your tap water will be rather different from the settled tank water. Also the amount of peat moss you would need to allow plants to properly root will probably turn your water solid black.
AKA I wouldn't advise it in this case.

Theres peat on organic potting soil...and manure.

I like organic TOP soil and mix in a couple cups manure or worm castings and add a few handfulls of gravel.

The water.movement isn't for the foshes sake...you need some kind of energy in the system or you get a.lot.of.biofilm on the surface and stufr takes forever to root...because it isn't being encouraged to root and nutrient don't move around in the water.

Ok, I'll try to get some soil tomorrow. I'll add peat moss and put the gravel on top. I can't find the cord for the desk lamp, which is unfortunate. Hopefully I can make this work.

 

If you really want to add airstone, try to divide the air pump three ways using valves and tubes. it decreases the air stone's power

 

If you really want to add airstone, try to divide the air pump three ways using valves and tubes. it decreases the air stone's power

I would prefer not to have a bubbler, mainly because of the noise, but I am a little worried about stagnant water. I did that once while waiting for plants, and after two weeks I had mosquito larvae and mosquitos in my room for a long time. Though maybe having a betta in there would help with that.

 

If you haven't read Walstads nook or at least a bit about it online you may want to start there.

 

I would prefer not to have a bubbler, mainly because of the noise, but I am a little worried about stagnant water. I did that once while waiting for plants, and after two weeks I had mosquito larvae and mosquitos in my room for a long time. Though maybe having a betta in there would help with that.

I understand. The betta would definitely be interested in the mosquito larvae, they are littler buggers who love little bugs? Stagnant water, however, can have protein film on top tho.

 

If you haven't read Walstads nook or at least a bit about it online you may want to start there.

I haven’t read her book, but I’ve been doing research. I think I’ll go with either the soil you suggested or miracle gro potting soil (because I know where I can find that). I can mix a small amount of peat moss in there as well. I’ll find some gravel too. I think I’ll test the water for the first couple days and wait about a week before putting my fish in to be sure.

I understand. The betta would definitely be interested in the mosquito larvae, they are littler buggers who love little bugs? Stagnant water, however, can have protein film on top tho.

I could try manually mix the water every other day just to separate the film, or buy the bubbler later on if it just gets too unbearable

 

Theres peat on organic potting soil...and manure.

I like organic TOP soil and mix in a couple cups manure or worm castings and add a few handfulls of gravel.

The water.movement isn't for the fishes sake...you need some kind of energy in the system or you get a lot of biofilm on the surface and stuff takes forever to root...because it isn't being encouraged to root and nutrient don't move around in the water.

I'm speaking from experience. You don't need water movement. As long as you get the rest of the balance right, your water will be just fine.
The films are particularly prompt to forming if you have nothing breaking the surface (hence, get at least some floating or emersed plants or both) and if you allow for a large temperature difference and dry air above the tank. In other words, use a lid or cling foil or something to trap a decent amount of hot, humid air (or just humid air if your tank is coldwater).

 

I'm thinking of making a walstad tank, but I've never had a tank that I didn't need a filter before. It would be either a 2.5 gallon or 5 gallon. I'll move my betta to it as well (and maybe get some ghost shrimp), since I want to use that tank for pea puffers (there's a lot of snails). Are there any recommendations for substrate or soil? Are there any lighting requirements, or does it just depend on the plants? I'm terrible at aquascaping but I'm willing to give it another shot.

Hello Max...

The Walstad method is okay for plants, but fish won't do well in this type of an environment long term. You need to have a means of keeping the water replenished regularly with oxygen and minerals. Even plants won't thrive after six months or so, because the bottom material runs out of nutrients. There is a much better way called a "Terraphyte" tank. This type can support both fish and plants indefinitely without ever changing the tank water.

Old

 

Hello Max...

The Walstad method is okay for plants, but fish won't do well in this type of an environment long term. You need to have a means of keeping the water replenished regularly with oxygen and minerals. Even plants won't thrive after six months or so, because the bottom material runs out of nutrients. There is a much better way called a "Terraphyte" tank. This type can support both fish and plants indefinitely without ever changing the tank water.

Old

Could I ask what makes your think this style of tank is any different - or better - from a walstad? I tried looking it up but from what I can see, I don't really get it.

 

I have done Walstad aquaria and Modified Walstad and I agree...without at least water movement and nutrient addition at the 6-8 month mark they get to be pretty labor intensive and finicky. I use biological filtration in mine now with at least enough flow to turn the water in the aquarium over 5 times an hour. It made things a lot more maintenance free and uiu can keep a few small fish in them without crashes and wild water variance.

W no flow plants root less, grow slower and you absolutley get biofilm on the surface that has to be siphoned...plus weird odors.

 

I have done Walstad aquaria and Modified Walstad and I agree...without at least water movement and nutrient addition at the 6-8 month mark they get to be pretty labor intensive and finicky. I use biological filtration in mine now with at least enough flow to turn the water in the aquarium over 5 times an hour. It made things a lot more maintenance free and uiu can keep a few small fish in them without crashes and wild water variance.

W no flow plants root less, grow slower and you absolutley get biofilm on the surface that has to be siphoned...plus weird odors.

Ok thanks, I'll get the bubbler.

Hello Max...

The Walstad method is okay for plants, but fish won't do well in this type of an environment long term. You need to have a means of keeping the water replenished regularly with oxygen and minerals. Even plants won't thrive after six months or so, because the bottom material runs out of nutrients. There is a much better way called a "Terraphyte" tank. This type can support both fish and plants indefinitely without ever changing the tank water.

Old

I'll do some research on this method and see if there's anything else to change with my plan. Thanks!

 

Nobote PascalKrypt I've got the soil, so I'm thinking of sifting it out to make it more of a sand-like consistency. It also has perlite, so I'll get that out too since it floats. Should I rise or clean it somehow, or is that not necessary?

 

Nobote PascalKrypt I've got the soil, so I'm thinking of sifting it out to make it more of a sand-like consistency. It also has perlite, so I'll get that out too since it floats. Should I rise or clean it somehow, or is that not necessary?

What did you buy that it has perlite in it? (and yes, do remove those, it makes a mess).

I wouldn't sift or clean it in any way. You can remove some larger pieces of mulm if those are in it (like twigs or leaves) but otherwise, just leave it be. Putting it through a sieve risks making it too dense and the organic debris functions as your nutrient reserve.

 

What did you buy that it has perlite in it? (and yes, do remove those, it makes a mess).

I wouldn't sift or clean it in any way. You can remove some larger pieces of mulm if those are in it (like twigs or leaves) but otherwise, just leave it be. Putting it through a sieve risks making it too dense and the organic debris functions as your nutrient reserve.

It was some potting soil that I had, but it already had it. I was sifting some of it because it removed the perlite, and also because I read that the wood chips take longer to break down (and make the water brown longer). I think I'll keep half the soil sifted, and the other half non-sifted but with the perlite removed.

 

MaximumRide14 Please check out the YouTube channel of Foo the Flowerhorn. I linked their video of when they first set up their tank below. It's been 24 months since they set it up and it's quite amazing. Honestly, it's inspiring. Good luck!

Initial Setup:

24 Month Video:

 

MaximumRide14 Please check out the YouTube channel of Foo the Flowerhorn. I linked their video of when they first set up their tank below. It's been 24 months since they set it up and it's quite amazing. Honestly, it's inspiring. Good luck!

Initial Setup:
24 Month Video:

Lol, that's what I've been using for reference! They sifted their soil, and it's been taking me a while. I still can't tell if I have enough soil. I'm thinking about buying the tank and the plexI I need for the lid next weekend. The plants will come this week, but I'll keep them in other tanks till they're ready. I'm pretty sure those videos are what first gave me this idea

 

I sift mine...he used window screen- I actually have a large mesh colander. I like to mix in a little bit of finer aggregates...bigger than sand but smaller than gravel.
Your rooted plants will kind of lock into the gravel and hold better and it also keep the soil matrix kimd of plastic. Just peat/potting soil/ and manure alone turns into a black sludge. I think the aggregate provides some minerals as well. But that's me and my ideas....there are plenty of examples of success that don't include this line of thinking.
If your potting soil is not organic, and has fertilizer beads in it- your water will become an ammoniated algae soup that will be toxic to anything you put in the aquarium that's not a plant.

 

I sift mine...he used window screen- I actually have a large mesh colander. I like to mix in a little bit of finer aggregates...bigger than sand but smaller than gravel.
Your rooted plants will kind of lock into the gravel and hold better and it also keep the soil matrix kimd of plastic. Just peat/potting soil/ and manure alone turns into a black sludge. I think the aggregate provides some minerals as well. But that's me and my ideas....there are plenty of examples of success that don't include this line of thinking.
If your potting soil is not organic, and has fertilizer beads in it- your water will become an ammoniated algae soup that will be toxic to anything you put in the aquarium that's not a plant.

This very much. There are many different ways of going about it and resulting in success. Do what seems right to you, you can always revisit things when they don't work out.

From what I can see of the tank in the vid though (kudos to them for maintaining it so well for a long time), there is zero water movement in there, too (so basically like most of mine, a heater is the only equipment aside from the lighting). This depends a lot of tank dimensions and stocking through. Shrimp and labyrinths are fine with that, and in a shallow tank non-air breathers would be fine too, but if the tank is deeper you risk oxygen trouble at night without a bubbler.

 

I sift mine...he used window screen- I actually have a large mesh colander. I like to mix in a little bit of finer aggregates...bigger than sand but smaller than gravel.
Your rooted plants will kind of lock into the gravel and hold better and it also keep the soil matrix kimd of plastic. Just peat/potting soil/ and manure alone turns into a black sludge. I think the aggregate provides some minerals as well. But that's me and my ideas....there are plenty of examples of success that don't include this line of thinking.
If your potting soil is not organic, and has fertilizer beads in it- your water will become an ammoniated algae soup that will be toxic to anything you put in the aquarium that's not a plant.

It’s definitely organic, and there weren’t any beads in it. It took forever with the sieve I used since it’s really fine, so I hope I have enough. I want to find some natural looking gravel to cap it, so I think I’ll get it when I buy the tank.
Since I’m leaving for a week and a half after Christmas, I’ll be putting the soil and gravel in my tank and I’ll wait till after the break to put in the water.

Edit: Forgot to add the picture
I used a shoe box as the container. I really don’t know if I made enough

This very much. There are many different ways of going about it and resulting in success. Do what seems right to you, you can always revisit things when they don't work out.

From what I can see of the tank in the vid though (kudos to them for maintaining it so well for a long time), there is zero water movement in there, too (so basically like most of mine, a heater is the only equipment aside from the lighting). This depends a lot of tank dimensions and stocking through. Shrimp and labyrinths are fine with that, and in a shallow tank non-air breathers would be fine too, but if the tank is deeper you risk oxygen trouble at night without a bubbler.

Yep, I’m still thinking about getting the bubbler. The only livestock I’m planning on is my betta and possible a few ghost shrimp. I’m thinking the betta may be okay because of the labyrinth organ? The tank is standard size too, not that deep. I think I might get lucky without it. I found an LED light on amazon, so I think I’ve found everything I need for now.

 

Yep, I’m still thinking about getting the bubbler. The only livestock I’m planning on is my betta and possible a few ghost shrimp. I’m thinking the betta may be okay because of the labyrinth organ? The tank is standard size too, not that deep. I think I might get lucky without it. I found an LED light on amazon, so I think I’ve found everything I need for now.

In that case you really don't need that bubbler. Betta are labyrinth fish after all (the small fish featured in the video posted earlier are sparkling gourami, which are also labyrinths).

 

Hello Pascal...

The soil in the Walstad tank runs out of nutrients in a few months. So, there's nothing to support the fish and plants long term. Everything in the tank is constantly dissolving in the water. Soon, the nutrients are used up and you have a sterile environment. You can use root tabs to replenish the nutrients, but putting anything into the soil disturbs it and you have floating debris in the water until everything settles. Trying to perform a water change in this type of tank is nearly impossible without making a mess of the tank water.

Old

 

Hello Pascal...

The soil in the Walstad tank runs out of nutrients in a few months. So, there's nothing to support the fish and plants long term. Everything in the tank is constantly dissolving in the water. Soon, the nutrients are used up and you have a sterile environment. You can use root tabs to replenish the nutrients, but putting anything into the soil disturbs it and you have floating debris in the water until everything settles. Trying to perform a water change in this type of tank is nearly impossible without making a mess of the tank water.

Old

You keep repeating this mantra and yet I run these tanks for over a year and have no such problems. I'm sorry, but my experience simply doesn't stroke with that.

I really kind of resent how you present your view as undeniable facts when they are simply your view. You CAN do waterchanges in these tanks without making a mess. I did so yesterday.

Edit: in fact a few posts above you is a video of someone who does this successfully for two years. How about you try it yourself before denying everyone else's opinion.

 

I also have a dirted tank (though I opted to go with a filter- a modified Mattenfilter, which is a type of sponge filter). I have the flow on the filter set very low as the fish I keep prefer it, as do my floating plants. I used sifted worm castings capped with sand as a substrate. I change the water weekly with no mess. I don't attempt to vacuum the bottom, as this would uproot plants. I siphon the water from quite low in the water column but not "on the bottom". I pump clean water back in with an ordinary pump, running the water through a minI colander that I made (exactly like the one Foo the Flowerhorn uses, made from a plastic bottle) so that the bottom isn't disturbed too much.

There is no mess, no sign of the tank becoming "sterile" (why would it, when fish are pooping in it every day to replenish any lost nutrients?), and no need for root tabs.

My personal opinion is that Foo the Flowerhorn makes things look easier than they are, probably due to years of experience along with excellent video editing, which is why I opted for a Mattenfilter in my dirted tank. But the idea that a Walstad tank becomes a "sterile environment in a few months" is a statement I cannot agree with.

 

I also have a dirted tank (though I opted to go with a filter- a modified Mattenfilter, which is a type of sponge filter). I have the flow on the filter set very low as the fish I keep prefer it, as do my floating plants. I used sifted worm castings capped with sand as a substrate. I change the water weekly with no mess. I don't attempt to vacuum the bottom, as this would uproot plants. I siphon the water from quite low in the water column but not "on the bottom". I pump clean water back in with an ordinary pump, running the water through a minI colander that I made (exactly like the one Foo the Flowerhorn uses, made from a plastic bottle) so that the bottom isn't disturbed too much.

There is no mess, no sign of the tank becoming "sterile" (why would it, when fish are pooping in it every day to replenish any lost nutrients?), and no need for root tabs.

My personal opinion is that Foo the Flowerhorn makes things look easier than they are, probably due to years of experience along with excellent video editing, which is why I opted for a Mattenfilter in my dirted tank. But the idea that a Walstad tank becomes a "sterile environment in a few months" is a statement I cannot agree with.

You know what, when I get home tonight (currently out) I will take some pictures of some of my tanks so that you can see this kind of result really isn't an aberration.
(P.S. picture in my avatar taken a few days ago in a non-fertilised, filterless, circulation-free dirted tank set up in early June, full shot below).

 

Pascal...

I have a question. How will you deal with the lack of oxygen in the soil of a dirted tank? Did you know that dirt in an enclosed tank doesn't allow oxygen to flow through it, so at some point the water will become stagnant? The tank may look nice for a few months, but the organic material in the soil will begin to decompose and the water will get a real nasty odor. This is why the system won't work long term. The water needs to be replaced and it needs to have the oxygen and nutrients replenished to keep the plants and fish healthy. But, you're the keeper of the tank.

Old

 

I agree that circulation free can work. All of my tanks are extremely low flow- even though I was advised at the LFS that this would kill the plants, they are in fact thriving. I only run sponge filters because I'm paranoid and it feels like a form of "insurance".

 

Hey MaximumRide14, you can also check out the video of how the Walstad method works. As you can tell in these forums there are different opinions on how well this tank can perform. So far that's all you've really been given, opinions, because I don't see anyone providing evidence that the Walstad tank will fail. So at this point, I'd just take pointers from the setup + explained videos of Foo the Flowerhorn, as the Walstad book isn't the cheapest, and give it a go. Good luck!

 

Pascal...

I have a question. How will you deal with the lack of oxygen in the soil of a dirted tank? Did you know that dirt in an enclosed tank doesn't allow oxygen to flow through it, so at some point the water will become stagnant? The tank may look nice for a few months, but the organic material in the soil will begin to decompose and the water will get a real nasty odor. This is why the system won't work long term. The water needs to be replaced and it needs to have the oxygen and nutrients replenished to keep the plants and fish healthy. But, you're the keeper of the tank.

Old

I don't know if you realise how condescending you sound. Because you do. You are asking in a very snobby manner if I know about the basic propensities of a tank style which I have already explained to you I have plenty of experience with. Of course I do, because I have actually tried running these tanks.

I don't know what makes you think that I disagree with

The water needs to be replaced and it needs to have the oxygen and nutrients replenished to keep the plants and fish healthy.

I advocate that having a set-up where you have soil as a substrate works. Nowhere at any time did I suggest you should not do water changes in such a tank. Of course you will get stagnant water if you never do water changes, but what makes you think I don't do those? Stop putting words in my mouth just that you can easily refute me.

If you think nutrients in soil get depleted by a couple plants in a few months, how do you think potted houseplants survive? Or the grass on your lawn? You don't need to artificially fertilise if you have organic decomposition in the tank (for example, by adding dried leaves and other organic materials that can decompose in your soil, or leaving in decomposing leaves of plants, just as the fish waste from your stocking). Additionally, just as your houseplants get their nutrients from watering, you do water changes in the tank and replenish nutrients.

"the organic material in the soil will begin to decompose and the water will get a real nasty odor." -> right, this is why every natural body of water that has some organic material in it, which is all of them, smell like death traps. I forgot about that. My bad.
A tank isn't just rocks + plants + water and then fertilisers you add. There is a complicated ecosystem at play that depends on colonisation of bacteria and micro-organisms. If you do things right, your tank will continue to smell healthy. If your tank starts to smell like rot you are really doing something wrong.

Again you are completely ignoring that there is actual evidence of people doing these tanks where they do not encounter any of the supposedly "unavoidable" problems you keep hammering on. How about you explain those away first instead?

Edit: I apologise if I sound rude but your dogmatic messages on a thread that is asking politely for advice with this set-up, *not* a discussion as to the basic viability, are really starting to irritate me. I'm also in a bad mood today so eh.

 

Hello Pascal...

The soil in the Walstad tank runs out of nutrients in a few months. So, there's nothing to support the fish and plants long term. Everything in the tank is constantly dissolving in the water. Soon, the nutrients are used up and you have a sterile environment. You can use root tabs to replenish the nutrients, but putting anything into the soil disturbs it and you have floating debris in the water until everything settles. Trying to perform a water change in this type of tank is nearly impossible without making a mess of the tank water.

Old

I already know that this tank will only be set up for about a year and a half before I have to break it down, so would it last the majority of that time? I have ferts and root tabs that I can eventually use. I can also eventually get a bubbler if it becomes necessary.

I also have a dirted tank (though I opted to go with a filter- a modified Mattenfilter, which is a type of sponge filter). I have the flow on the filter set very low as the fish I keep prefer it, as do my floating plants. I used sifted worm castings capped with sand as a substrate. I change the water weekly with no mess. I don't attempt to vacuum the bottom, as this would uproot plants. I siphon the water from quite low in the water column but not "on the bottom". I pump clean water back in with an ordinary pump, running the water through a minI colander that I made (exactly like the one Foo the Flowerhorn uses, made from a plastic bottle) so that the bottom isn't disturbed too much.

There is no mess, no sign of the tank becoming "sterile" (why would it, when fish are pooping in it every day to replenish any lost nutrients?), and no need for root tabs.

My personal opinion is that Foo the Flowerhorn makes things look easier than they are, probably due to years of experience along with excellent video editing, which is why I opted for a Mattenfilter in my dirted tank. But the idea that a Walstad tank becomes a "sterile environment in a few months" is a statement I cannot agree with.

I have a question. How long do I have to wait before adding livestock? I plan on testing the water and adding the shrimp first (any recommendations on how many for a 2.5 gallon?)

 

I’m becoming very interested in this method and may consider trying it in a 5.5 eventually starting with just soil capped with PFS and plant trimming from my other tanks... following along with extreme interest

 

I’m becoming very interested in this method and may consider trying it in a 5.5 eventually starting with just soil capped with PFS and plant trimming from my other tanks... following along with extreme interest

It's very interesting, though the science behind it requires more research because of the soil I might put some of the bacopa I got from you in it, it's growing very well!