These were sold to me as glowlight tetras?

marly

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Hi all,
This is my first post on this forum, and i was wondering if anyone could help me id this group of tetra.
I bought them as glowlight tetra, and put them in my planted 75 gallon paludarium, along with other tetra.
There was something that didnt seem right, but i thought maybe it was the sand that was washing out their colours.
I decided to rescape that tank and thought id put these guys in my breeding rack.
So i put them in a 5 gallon tank , and started conditioning the fish.
Today i decided to inspect them closer and im unsure now if they were glowlight tetra or some contaminant tetra that came in with them, so if anyone could help id these fish if pono ligyt.jpgssible it would be appreciated.
It looks like its a hemigrammus, and the closest match ive been able to find is hemigrammus changae, as it has a black patch near its gill.
 

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RedGallant said:
I think it looks like a diamond tetra, (Moenkhausia pittieri).

Edit, when I clicked on this the pictures looked different.
yh its a thin bodied tetra, ive just seen a tetra called lime green tetra ,hemigrammus lunatis that i think looks more familiar as it looks almost like a black neon without the thick black marking. It has a faint lime green look from a distance
 

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marly said:
yh its a thin bodied tetra, ive just seen a tetra called lime green tetra ,hemigrammus lunatis that i think looks more familiar as it looks almost like a black neon without the thick black marking. It has a faint lime green look from a distance
Is it transparent?
 
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yes it seems so apart from a balck dot near the gill and the stripe on the side.
The last photo i turned to brightness down as low as i could
 

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marly said:
yes it seems so apart from a balck dot near the gill and the stripe on the side.
The last photo i turned to brightness down as low as i could
The pristella seems to have a black dot right there and it has a transparent body with a trans-yellowish fin.
 
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RedGallant said:
The pristella seems to have a black dot right there and it has a transparent body with a trans-yellowish fin.
These guys are quite big i scooped up a rummynose with them by accident and they are almost as long as the rummynose, when i had pristellas they were more like the size of black phamtom tetra.
 

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SnookusFish

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looks like Hyphessobrycon eschwartzae except the black line doesnt go all the way back on your ones,are yours stressed and therefore pale? if not then im not right
 
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marly said:
These guys are quite big i scooped up a rummynose with them by accident and they are almost as long as the rummynose, when i had pristellas they were more like the size of black phamtom tetra.
The stripe seems to be a bit transluscent changing from a green tinge to an oranger tinge in the light ive also noticed.
I have some black neons in another tank i might put one in so as to see the similarity in body shape .
Its more torpedo shaped than wide bodied

SnookusFish said:
looks like Hyphessobrycon eschwartzae except the black line doesnt go all the way back on your ones,are yours stressed and therefore pale? if not then im not right
Theyve been in that tank for a day so are probably still a bit stressed, the ph is lower in this tank 6.0 so they should settle down in a few days. ive added a black background and fed them some mosquito larvae so ill see if there colours come out more.The line seems to stop at their gill plate.
 

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marly said:
Theyve been in that tank for a day so are probably still a bit stressed, the ph is lower in this tank 6.0 so they should settle down in a few days. ive added a black background and fed them some mosquito larvae so ill see if there colours come out more.The line seems to stop at their gill plate.
Those remind me of my head and tail light tetras, they’re just a bit more transparent than mine.
 
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jkkgron2 said:
Those remind me of my head and tail light tetras, they’re just a bit more transparent than mine.
They were actually in a tank with some hemigrammus ocelifer, the gead and tail lights were more wide bodied, these fish seem to stay at the bottom and school quite tightly

RedGallant said:
Maybe a silvertip tetra, the shape seems similar.
Yes they are more torpedo shape like silver tips, i think ive had nearly every type of common tetra over the years i have a serious case of mts. I dont think these are commercially sold, i i think its more likely they were contaminant fish mixed in and sold as glowlights.
Ive had a few tetra over the yrs that i never could properly id.
There are so many species of tetra that arent considered colurful enough, so are not collected

SnookusFish said:
looks like Hyphessobrycon eschwartzae except the black line doesnt go all the way back on your ones,are yours stressed and therefore pale? if not then im not right
They do look the closest to eschwarze, but looking at the tail it seems to be transluscent , they do look a bit like black neons at a certain angle and glowlight at another so it fit the description closer to anything else ive seen.
I will leave them in subdued light for a few days and them see if i can try and spawn them as they look like they are fully mature and theres a few plump females. Maybe in spawning conditions they will show their colour.The other fish that looked a bit similar was hyphesobrychon heterorhabus the flag tetra, but that seems to have more black in its stripe.
 

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chromedome52

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I used to visit certain shops that were known for buying box lots (often 1,000 fish at a time) from transshippers just so I could search for Bycatch Tetras. Rummy nose and Cardinals were the best sources for bycatch species. Then I took them home and tried to ID them. Managed to get lucky on a couple, like Axelrodia stigmatias, but the ones shaped like your fish were just too varied in pattern to narrow down with known species.

Looks like it has some potential, though. Good luck!
 
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chromedome52 said:
I used to visit certain shops that were known for buying box lots (often 1,000 fish at a time) from transshippers just so I could search for Bycatch Tetras. Rummy nose and Cardinals were the best sources for bycatch species. Then I took them home and tried to ID them. Managed to get lucky on a couple, like Axelrodia stigmatias, but the ones shaped like your fish were just too varied in pattern to narrow down with known species.

Looks like it has some potential, though. Good luck!
That sounds like it would have been fun, almost like going on an expedition to the amazon, just without the bug bites and the cost.
Never know what you might find.
 
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DoubleDutch said:
Could they be Hyphessobrycon amapaensis ?
From the ones ive seen on a few videos amarapensis seem too brightly coloured and the black bar looks thicker
. Also with all the fish that look similar to them they all have more colour in their eyes.
Does anybody know if a fish is stressed , would it also lose its colour in its eye? because the eye looks almost white all around
20200715_194703.jpg


marly said:
From the ones ive seen on a few videos amarapensis seem too brightly coloured and the black bar looks thicker
. Also with all the fish that look similar to them they all have more colour in their eyes.
Does anybody know if a fish is stressed , would it also lose its colour in its eye? because the eye looks almost white all around
20200715_194703.jpg
This pic shows some colour in the eye on second inspection, but is not noticable from just looking at the tank.
 

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MacZ

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The genus is for sure Hyphessobrycon (which has become kind of a wastebasket taxon, meaning it contains a lot of species that may o may not be actually related.) and they have similarities with H. eschwartzae and H. amapaensis so they likely are from that same species complex. They also remind slightly of very stressed, young black neons (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi), which are also in that group. But that's all I can say.
Something along those lines.

Edit: As I just mentioned stress colouration, can you post a pic of the whole tank?
 
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MacZ said:
The genus is for sure Hyphessobrycon (which has become kind of a wastebasket taxon, meaning it contains a lot of species that may o may not be actually related.) and they have similarities with H. eschwartzae and H. amapaensis so they likely are from that same species complex. They also remind slightly of very stressed, young black neons (Hyphessobrycon herbertaxelrodi), which are also in that group. But that's all I can say.
Something along those lines.

Edit: As I just mentioned stress colouration, can you post a pic of the whole tank?
My lights are all on in the fishroom atm , so the glare is terrible, ill attach a pic, but they are in a 19 litre rainwater tank with peat substrate and oak leaves atm.

ok, sounds good, can you give them anything as cover? Any floating plants or even fake plants? To correctly identify they should have their usual colouration. Give them some cover and wait a few days, then take new pictures, maybe then we can find out more unless somebody comes up with another idea. :)

marly said:
My lights are all on in the fishroom atm , so the glare is terrible, ill attach a pic, but they are in a 19 litre rainwater tank with peat substrate and oak leaves atm.
This tank had black neons in it the day before they were moved to a tank directly below.
I am going to put a black neon in to take a side by side picture.
They are about the same size as a mature black neon

Maybe these fish are not bright enough to be interesting for the trade.

marly said:
This tank had black neons in it the dsy before they were moved to a tank directly below.
I am going to put a black neon in to take a side by side picture.
They are about the same size as a mature black neon
ill stick some hornwort in and a few floaters now see if that helps settle them down

DoubleDutch said:
Maybe these fish are not bright enough to be interesting for the trade.
Thats my thought tbh, they looked really washed out when they were in a sand bottom tank.

Some of the fish it looks similar to seem to have a bit more pop in their colours, whereas i think these fish, would need a really dark tank to see any kind of colour.
Since adding a black background their stripe looks a bit more visible, so in a dealers tank these guys would look really washed out and dull.

marly said:
ill stick some hornwort in and a few floaters now see if that helps settle them down
It very likely will. I mean, it's basically a blackwater tank, some floaters or a treebranch would be enough to make them settle in, they need some structure for orientation. Otherwise they will identify their position permanently as "open water". And open water is only ok if they have the chance to get to cover.

MacZ said:
It very likely will. I mean, it's basically a blackwater tank, some floaters or a treebranch would be enough to make them settle in, they need some structure for orientation. Otherwise they will identify their position permanently as "open water". And open water is only ok if they have the chance to get to cover.
Great suggestions and information, very interesting and makes sense, Thanks ive added some floaters and some hornwort.

I will feed them up for a few days on live food,
and take some pictures when theyve settled in a bit

Looks great. Good blackwater version of a quarantine tank. They will really look nice between some roots and driftwood under a carpet of floaters or water lilies in heavily tinted water.

MacZ said:
Looks great. Good blackwater version of a quarantine tank. They will really look nice between some roots and driftwood under a carpet of floaters or water lilies in heavily tinted water.
I was thinking of maybe putting them in with black neons and glowlights.
I didnt really want to set up another tank, but i have space on a rack for a small cube.
I might try a few spawn attempts first, as i have a rack of small tanks set up the same way.
Ive found they are really intersting to observe in close quarters, as ive been going through my tetra collection, trying to breed a few types.
Im waiting on some cardinal eggs to hatch atm, hopefully ill see some wigglers in a few days.

Sounds like a really great operation you're running. What size cube? I'd offer these at least a 60 litre, even an 80.

MacZ said:
Sounds like a really great operation you're running. What size cube? I'd offer these at least a 60 litre, even an 80.
Yh ive got.my eye on a few dennerle 60l cubes i like the look of them, ive got some apistos and rams arriving on friday ,so i will need some more tank space, once they start pairing up.

That's at least 4 tanks, right?

MacZ said:
That's at least 4 tanks, right?
ive got about 20 tanks on the go , so its musical fish atm,
I have set up a small fish room so im in the process of getting it filled with tanks, until theres just enough space for me and my bucket

You know, it could also be Hemigrammus elegans. Google them. Maybe...

MacZ said:
You know, it could also be Hemigrammus elegans. Google them. Maybe...
Ive just looked up a few sites, the eye in one photo looked similar, the wiki picture , there doesnt seem to be much info on them, and the photos looked like a few different species.
It says the lateral line only extends mid way through the body but the faint yellow on the dorsal fin matches, its a definate contender, if i could find a few pictures of hemigrammus elegans

So these fish have been settled in for a few days now,so i thought id post a few pictures of what they look like now.



I have some videos but the file sizes are too large, whats the best way of uploading videos for this site?
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20200719_115605.jpg
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?
 

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marly

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Heres a video as well, colours have definitely come out more
 
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Not sure how i managed to merge the photos to an old post but ill put some
20200719_121820.jpg
20200719_121732.jpg
20200719_115617.jpg
20200719_115605.jpg
here as well
 

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I'm sure they are Hemigrammus now. And still thinking it could be from the H. elegans-group. Probably a not yet described species?
 
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marly

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MacZ said:
Those are very close.
Yes they look like thats what they could be, the white tips are starting to come through,
and they have that bit of yellow on the dorsal fin too.
Thanks i think thats as close an id as you could get.
Im going to move them to a tank with more tannins and ill see what they look like in a week.
Hopefully the tips of the fins will colour up and then ill know for certain.
Thenks Feowh and macZ,
saved me a lot of google searches.
 
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DoubleDutch said:
Hemigrammus bellotti ?
From what ive been able to read both fish are very similar ,to each other.Sp llanos has been collected from venezuela and hemigrammus bellottii from brazil.
The main difference seems to be the bellottii has bright red eyes, which is making me think it might be sp llanos.
Both seem to have been available a few yrs ago on aquarium glaser.
From reading up seems that sp llanos might come from more white water conditions?
 

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marly said:
From what ive been able to read both fish are very similar ,to each other.Sp llanos has been collected from venezuela and hemigrammus bellottii from brazil.
The main difference seems to be the bellottii has bright red eyes, which is making me think it might be sp llanos.
Both seem to have been available a few yrs ago on aquarium glaser.
From reading up seems that sp llanos might come from more white water conditions?
Only bodyshape doesn't match to me with that one. Maybe it simply is a new Hemigrammus sp.
 
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DoubleDutch said:
Only bodyshape doesn't match to me with that one. Maybe it simply is a new Hemigrammus sp.
There seems to be a bit of variation in body shape between the group.
The biggest fish which i presume is female almost has a hunch to her body, where as some of thd others have more torpedo shape, maybe males and females,
Also the fins seem more flowing whereas ths torpedo shaped ones have more pointed fins.
Im the photo you can see the difference in fins and head shape.The one in the middle looks more similar to the top fish.
Dont know if that makes sense reading it back. lol
body shape.jpg
l
 

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