THEORETICAL Goldfish stocking.....

  1. anunez91 Member Member

    I have a empty 20H i would like to get started as soon as i finish my 29g community. I fell in love with Calico Ryukins and want to keep one in my 20H. Ive read that the minimum size tank for a goldfish is do to its massive bioload, im assuming. So what if THEORETCIALLY i were to purchase a filter with 160 or higher gph turnover? would i be able to keep two of these in that tank? I only intend on purchasing one. But, its just a thought. =]
     
  2. Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

    It's also because they get so big, I think. They need the space. I know the myth is that goldfish only grow to the size of their tanks, but their organs actually keep growing.

    I hope this helps.

    what's a 20 H, a 20 gallon hex?
     

  3. anunez91 Member Member

    i just figure by the (apparently useless inch per gallon rule) 12 inches of fish would be fine in a 20 gallon HIGH tank, (24x12x16) i think thats how high is. I was thinking a bare bottom so theres no substrate to take up gallonage.
     
  4. Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

    the inch per gallon rule only applies (loosely) to fish that max out at 2 inches.
    You stop using the rule for anything but the smallest fish.
     

  5. anunez91 Member Member

    ....... yeah, i remember reading that too, my MIND escapes me sometimes. hahaha well, THANKS for putting that one to rest for me. =]
     
  6. sirdarksol Fishlore Legend Member

    Meenu is right about them needing the swimming space, but you've also got to worry about nitrogen buildup. The filters can deal with the ammonia, but no amount of filtration will remove nitrates, and they can be murder on the fish as well.

    As far as the growth myths go, the studies I've looked at suggest that the organs do not continue to grow. In fact, in some limited ways, fish with stunted growth are physically younger than same-aged fish without stunted growth. However, in other aspects, they suffer severely. For example, one year of stunted growth in catfish will render them permanently infertile.
     
  7. Meenu Fishlore VIP Member

    I replaced one bad myth with another. :;laughing
     

  8. agabr123 Fishlore VIP Member

    i wouldn't recommend a goldfish for a 20H, since the base is so small it doesn't provide for a lot of vertical swimming room, which is what goldfish love. even for one goldfish i wouldn't go for anything smaller than a 29 gallon, and even than you'll want to have excellent filtration. my suggestion would be a canister filter with at least 15x turnover.

    but i agree the calico ryukins are beautiful!
     
  9. Aquarist Fishlore Legend Member

  10. sirdarksol Fishlore Legend Member

    That's okay. It's something that a lot of us believe or have believed. It's a common belief. The problem is that there aren't any organizations willing to offer grants to scientists to look into things such as keeping fish as pets. It took me a couple of hours of searching to find two articles that covered fish growth, and they were only aimed at the health of the fish as far as their use as food goes (the research didn't care if the fish were uncomfortable, or if their life span had been shortened... it just cared about fertility and ability to grow afterward).
     

  11. Danionins.com Member Member

    Hi anunez91,

    The key to keeping large fish in less than optimum sized tanks is water changes.

    I've basically got the exact same set-up you're talking about. I'm using a hob filter for a 30 gallon tank, and doing 50% water changes once or twice a week.

    I've had this set-up going for a couple of years now and my 1.5 inch goldfish is now almost 8 inches long.

    Where there's a will, there's a way... best of luck!

    Dennis
     
  12. Jaysee Fishlore Legend Member

    Aren't angelfish in that category of being physically younger?
     
  13. sirdarksol Fishlore Legend Member

    Don't know. The study I referenced was done on a type of kidney that catfish have in or near their heads. In catfish of a certain age, the kidney is almost completely obliterated. In stunted catfish of the same age, the kidney is still there.

    The other study (the one regarding fertility) was also done on catfish. They're a commonly farmed fish in the US.

    What I take from this is that stunting may, to some extent, protect parts of a fish from aging, but that it also does damage to other parts of the fish. Usually, anything that damages reproductive ability is pretty bad for other parts of the body, as well.
     
  14. anunez91 Member Member

    ......interesting, haha. Well i was originally going to put a pair of Dwarf Cichlids in there but that Ryukin just keeps saying "buy me! buy me!" hahaha. Maybe its an excuse for a new tank....... Thanks for all the suggestions guys!


    p.s. dennis, i love your little signature thing, my girlfriend always makes fun of me for all the time, effort, expense, and research i put into all this (i think shes just slightly jealous) haha! =]

    hows this for filtration for ONE ryukin? or just in general? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3579+3580+16742&pcatid=16742

    two of those cool little things? Anyone ever use them? they seem so clever.\

    also, i dont have a hood or light for the tank, would that be a problem with a goldfish?
     
  15. gremlin Well Known Member Member

    A 20 gallon long would be better than a 20 gallon high, just for the swimming room. How big is this cutie that keeps saying "buy me"? If it is over 2 inches long, I would suggest a larger tank, at least 30 gallon. Eventually, as the goldie grows, a 55 gallon would be best for swimming room and one companion (if you wanted).

    That filter is only rated for up to 20 gallons so you would need to have two of them for the 20 gallon tank with a goldie in. That could actually work since you could alternate cleanings - one filter one time, the other filter the other time. That would keep the bacterial colonies going fairly well. You would still need to keep up with the water changes, or maybe try some live plants to help with the nitrates.

    You may also want to consider at least a hood. If the tank gets enough natural light, that would probably be okay, but goldies do sometimes jump. I've actually had some of my goldies jump out of my pond. I had to put in a little "fence" along the back of my pond where the fish kept jumping out and couldn't flip back into the pond.
     
  16. Danionins.com Member Member

    Thanks... I think it's fitting!

    I don't think you absolutely need a hood, but as the fish gets bigger you might get wet at feeding time! When my goldfish gets excited it can splash quite a bit of water.

    Dennis
     
  17. sirdarksol Fishlore Legend Member

    Agreed on both paragraphs.
    As the goldfish grows, it will be over half the length of the narrowest dimension of a 20g tank. That's just too little swimming space, in my opinion.