The Ones That Go Silent...

Hey team,

What do others think about those that join the freshwater beginners forum, ask a bunch of panicked questions, but then never respond to any of the posts helpful members offer as advice?

My gut tells me it's some combination of the following:

• we unintentionally overwhelm them with advice that they don't understand and they don't feel they can tell us
• we unintentionally overwhelm them with advice they can't afford (time or money) to follow
• we unintentionally overwhelm them with advice they think is conflicting without us making clear (or without them understanding) that we're giving them options
• they decide the advice is too much for them and give up
• they get advice elsewhere and never check the forum again
• we don't see the post in time and because they're panicking it's too late once we reply
• they're looking for the "silver bullet" - a clear black and white answer or formula for a biological system that doesn't have one

I have seen many of us follow up on threads in order to mitigate any or all of the above - to check in and make sure they're ok.

I'm interested in other ways we can approach posts that help people stay engaged. I know many of us try really hard to be clear about "one option for you would be" or "given your specific situation, i'd suggest this option instead..." And that's kinda all I can think of.

I get intensely interested in some threads and want to help, so I guess that's why i'm posting.

In Dec/Jan when I was the panicked resurrected newbie, I was overwhelmed. I felt like the advice was conflicting or kept reasoning out why some didn't make sense as the panacea to all my worries. I did my own research and talked to others and finally realised that FL imo has the highest number of experienced, patient, helpful people whose advice is solid of anywhere I looked. I realised there are no panaceas because everyone's situation is different and 2 tanks from the same water can have different needs. So that's prompted me to reflect on other newbies' experiences...

 

the ones that annoy me the most are ones that one of our more trusted fish keepers is helping someone out and someone new to the site jumps in with something off the wall as an easy fix but can be very detrimental to the tank with out getting all the details first.

 

the ones that annoy me the most are ones that one of our more trusted fish keepers is helping someone out and someone new to the site jumps in with something off the wall as an easy fix but can be very detrimental to the tank with out getting all the details first.

totally! i've seen that and generally they fall into two categories:

1. they got lots of help recently on our forum and are eager to help quickly...these ones typically reply and say "nm what I posted, trust the well trusted person" or "oh, I didn't think of that" when someone gently corrects their off the wall part

OR

2. someone who just joined who has cycled a few tanks themselves and never had problems who thinks they know more without finding out all the detail. they generally argue and confuse newbies.

I actually feel that a few newbies disengage once those discussions happen on their thread...

 

I don't know, but there is another option:

They come with a problem (or many problems), create a thread, ask a bunch of questions, but when answers are given and they do not match what the expected, they get mad and leave.

I stay away from posts like that because they start answering (incorrectly) their own questions based on what they expect to hear.

Makes me wonder, "If you already "know" the answer, then why ask? If you don't actually want advice, then why post?".

 

I don't know, but there is another option:

They come with a problem (or many problems), create a thread, ask a bunch of questions, but when answers are given and they do not match what the expected, they get mad and leave.

I stay away from posts like that because they start answering (incorrectly) their own questions based on what they expect to hear.

Makes me wonder, "If you already "know" the answer, then why ask? If you don't actually want advice, then why post?".

Yeah there was one like that in the last couple weeks that went septic... first person I ever "ignored"

I love this forum because there seems to be the least amount of "trolls" but I still hate to see lovely members who are offering good advice get nothing but rudeness back...

 

I agree, especially with the first two and number 4. It’s kind of why I usually avoid certain threads and topics because I feel it can be a bit of an information overload, and I rather not add to it when twenty other people have already posted essentially the same thing.

I also think it might be short attention spans too. People just get bored and move on before they even really get started.

 

I agree, especially with the first two and number 4. It’s kind of why I usually avoid certain threads and topics because I feel it can be a bit of an information overload, and I rather not add to it when twenty other people have already posted essentially the same thing.

I also think it might be short attention spans too. People just get bored and move on before they even really get started.

Yeah, i've totally seen the attention span thing! and the info overload... i've accidentally added to that before. ops: I can't get the app to log me in, so I have accidentally posted long-winded thorough advice after someone else has posted something similar because my phone doesn't tell me "someone has posted on this thread since you loaded the page" like the laptop does with the website version. I always feel bad doing that... because I tend to go through and give "agrees" and other ratings when others are giving the right advice so that the OP knows to trust it.

 

And as a newbie my self I would never give any advice to someone if another person gave them same advice as I would give I might be a newbie on the forum but I'm definitely not new in owning aquariums in my life time I even learned how from my father who owned two freshwater aquariums and one salt water aquarium although I did learn I don't want a salt water aquarium my self due to all the extra maintenance salt water aquariums take lol

 

Gah I just found another bullet point for the list that must drive the experienced gurus on here insane... very muchalong the lines of what JoeCamaro said above:

• ask about problems, don't like answer, ignore answer, create more problems, wait a few weeks & post a new thread on a different part of the forum to seek advice they want to hear to solve the new compounded problems they created.

tbf I didn't create this thread only to vent... although that's fine I also created it to reflect & get better at discerning those who truly want help from those who it seems don't....

 

I myself am new to the forum but.. I have owned three 55 gallon fish tanks and allways used an Undergravel filter and the first two tanks ran perfectly !

 

I don’t know. I lurked this forum for quite a while before I joined. Since then I find it to be all over the place and rather chilly. Great advice given here. I am sure the moderators spend countless hours keeping it running. But I have had and seen very simple posts straight to the point just sit there for weeks with no answer. Then very vague posts go so far off the rails with replies that you can’t even remember what the original post is about. FWIW.

 

I'm sorry that's been your experience... but I appreciate you sharing & hope to be the first to answer a thread of yours in the future if I can help

 

I think sometimes newbies to the forum might get scared off when they are told casually to 'rehome their fish' or 'get a bigger tank' when that isn't really an option for a lot of people (or at least not an easy one). For more experienced fishkeepers that have multiple tanks and are 'well connected' to a local community in the hobby, those may seem like obvious solutions to the common stocking issues many newbies unknowingly come to the forum with.
Of course most people offering advice on this forum have the best of intentions, but perhaps their advice is not always interpreted that way. Just my 2 cents
And great idea for a thread Jenoli42, it's always good to get a potentially productive dialogue going!!!

 

I had some newbie who asked me questions on my betta who had a fungus and they never replied back when I answered them mins after. There for my thread was no longer in the unanswered section and got moved further down the "New posts" thread. I waited for 2weeks and re did the thread and couple hours after the thread my fav betta died.... I also hate when the newbies say "HELP! Betta has finrot" And then they give us no info.

 

I think sometimes newbies to the forum might get scared off when they are told casually to 'rehome their fish' or 'get a bigger tank' when that isn't really an option for a lot of people (or at least not an easy one). For more experienced fishkeepers that have multiple tanks and are 'well connected' to a local community in the hobby, those may seem like obvious solutions to the common stocking issues many newbies unknowingly come to the forum with.
Of course most people offering advice on this forum have the best of intentions, but perhaps their advice is not always interpreted that way. Just my 2 cents
And great idea for a thread Jenoli42, it's always good to get a potentially productive dialogue going!!!

Thanks! I find myself wondering "whatever happened to the dude whose filter flooded his wood floors" or "I wonder how the woman left high and dry with her exes live bearers got on" & I've gone back to follow-up sometimes. but sometimes I see a newbies thread flooded with excellent advice but never see them post after their initial question. those are the ones I reflect on how we approach them when they've reached out.

I think you're quite right - I tend to look at their age before suggesting bigger investments. but there are awesome diy people on here who can turn a plastic tub into an aquarium on the smell of an oily rag. sometimes we hafta get creative to keep them engaged I reckon

 

Great thread Jenoli42 Sorry it took me so long to find it. Internet crashed and I felt like I was thrown back into the dark ages fortunately I am back up and running.

 

Great thread Jenoli42 Sorry it took me so long to find it. Internet crashed and I felt like I was thrown back into the dark ages fortunately I am back up and running.

oh no! I'm all for unplugging once in a while but I am addicted to the internet I will admit. and I can't handle involuntary unexpected internet crashes... lolz

good to have you here now

 

I think sometimes newbies to the forum might get scared off when they are told casually to 'rehome their fish' or 'get a bigger tank' when that isn't really an option for a lot of people (or at least not an easy one).

This. You’ll never hear me tell someone to rehome their fish. That doesn’t mean I’m completely against it, as long as it’s done tactfully. Unfortunately, a lot of times it’s not. This is how I see it: would you tell someone to get rid of their fish in a casual and abrupt manner face to face, in real life, not behind a computer or phone screen? I wouldn’t.

 

oh no! I'm all for unplugging once in a while but I am addicted to the internet I will admit. and I can't handle involuntary unexpected internet crashes... lolz

good to have you here now

Totally off topic Hubby can usually get us right back up and running but not this time. Our ISP actually had to send a service tech out this time to upgrade our line to the new system. They sent us a new modem a week or so ago and it appeared to be working good but then crashed. We were still back in the dark ages (not back as far as dial up though) as far as speed and didn't even notice it. I can't believe how much faster it is now.

Pages load so much faster but I still type slower than molasses in winter.

 

Interesting thread for sure. I’ve seen it go both ways, newbies not getting the answer they want to hear so they get defensive or just move on and well known “know-it-alls” get a bit snippy to someone who doesn’t have the innate fishkeeping knowledge that they obviously do, it’s sad really, on both parts. I’ve also seen many great members with actual knowledge and have given helpful advice get banned for reasons I’ll never understand....

 

Interesting thread for sure. I’ve seen it go both ways, newbies not getting the answer they want to hear so they get defensive or just move on and well known “know-it-alls” get a bit snippy to someone who doesn’t have the innate fishkeeping knowledge that they obviously do, it’s sad really, on both parts. I’ve also seen many great members with actual knowledge and have given helpful advice get banned for reasons I’ll never understand....

oh whoa! I don't even know what getting banned looks like! didn't know it was a thing...

I think so much comes down to approach ("tone") & where the other person's head space is at... especially during a fish/ tank crisis...

 

oh whoa! I don't even know what getting banned looks like! didn't know it was a thing...

I think so much comes down to approach ("tone") & where the other person's head space is at... especially during a fish/ tank crisis...

Lol, well I guess that was neither here nor there (mentioning banning, lol) but yeah I try to help people based on how I read their “language” as best I can in reading text, some people are sensitive and others tell it like it is, so personalities clash at times. Lol

 

This. You’ll never hear me tell someone to rehome their fish. That doesn’t mean I’m completely against it, as long as it’s done tactfully. Unfortunately, a lot of times it’s not. This is how I see it: would you tell someone to get rid of their fish in a casual and abrupt manner face to face, in real life, not behind a computer or phone screen? I wouldn’t.

I've seen good approaches - such as "your fish will outgrow your tank within the next 6-12 months so are you able to make an upgrade plan for something larger that will home your fish for life? it needs a X gallon..."

we have a common pleco by accident due to the retailer miss labeling her. we love her. but she's in a 165L. so! we have options as she grows:
1. we have a 250L as an interim
2. if we can afford it, we plan to build a heated red eared snapper pond & will plan for it to be suitable for large fish
3. our LFS rock star is getting a 400L for his home in a few months & really wants her. we'll be sad to see her go but if it's best for her & our pond isn't ready then we'll do it.

EDIT: meant to add that I use my experience with the pleco to gently advise people of their options without seeming causal

 

I've seen good approaches - such as "your fish will outgrow your tank within the next 6-12 months so are you able to make an upgrade plan for something larger that will home your fish for life? it needs a X gallon..."

we have a common pleco by accident due to the retailer miss labeling her. we love her. but she's in a 165L. so! we have options as she grows:
1. we have a 250L as an interim
2. if we can afford it, we plan to build a heated red eared snapper pond & will plan for it to be suitable for large fish
3. our LFS rock star is getting a 400L for his home in a few months & really wants her. we'll be sad to see her go but if it's best for her & our pond isn't ready then we'll do it.

EDIT: meant to add that I use my experience with the pleco to gently advise people of their options without seeming causal

The above mentioned example isn’t bad at all, and I see that quite often too. I don’t know; I guess things have changed a lot (for the better) since I joined. It used to be quite bad to the point almost every thread derailed into a stocking and rehoming one.

 

I haven't read any responses to this thread yet, because I wanted to answer without being influenced by other people's posts. So, if I completely repeat someone else's thoughts, sorry about that.

Personally, I find it incredibly trying when I'm panicking or just really need a clear answer, and I get 87 responses from people who a) didn't read my post clearly, or b) didn't read responses to see where conversation has gone. Having to slog through unhelpful comments from people who just want to shoot off quick responses without engaging fully in the problem at hand doesn't make me feel like they legitimately want to help, and it adds to my existing frustration. Frustration doesn't make me want to keep coming back to see if any truly helpful responses have been made.

Granted, that's just me. Sometimes I think it is that people didn't realize how much they were in for, and their quick "what medicine should I give this fish?" opens up a whole chemistry discussion they weren't prepared for and don't want to deal with.

 

I haven't read any responses to this thread yet, because I wanted to answer without being influenced by other people's posts. So, if I completely repeat someone else's thoughts, sorry about that.

Personally, I find it incredibly trying when I'm panicking or just really need a clear answer, and I get 87 responses from people who a) didn't read my post clearly, or b) didn't read responses to see where conversation has gone. Having to slog through unhelpful comments from people who just want to shoot off quick responses without engaging fully in the problem at hand doesn't make me feel like they legitimately want to help, and it adds to my existing frustration. Frustration doesn't make me want to keep coming back to see if any truly helpful responses have been made.

Granted, that's just me. Sometimes I think it is that people didn't realize how much they were in for, and their quick "what medicine should I give this fish?" opens up a whole chemistry discussion they weren't prepared for and don't want to deal with.

Thank you for sharing! i'm interested in your views...hang on, I'll go through my thoughts one by one.

I guess I lense through answers that may not have read the thread clearly as someone who wants to help but doesn't have time to read a 3-7 page thread. My view is that if they didn't want to help, they wouldn't bother answering, but that's just me. I have seen some that come across the way you've said, though, so I understand how those make you feel. I tend to think it's more of a time thing than a lack of engagement thing maybe? or possibly i'm being more generous than I should

the other problem, as I stated in my firs post, is that sometimes there really isn't a clear answer! it's a biological system so sometimes more information is needed to get to a clear path and sometimes there just isn't one in this hobby! I still don't know what mysteriously killed my sterbaI in quarantine or my cardinals in quarantine.

I totally get the frustration of people who haven't read things clearly. I have done that to others and others have done it to me. but I kinda let it go because most people admit when they missed something - we're not perfect (I know i'm not) and i'm the first to say up front where i've missed something on someone else's thread.

maybe a way around the frustration for people in situations like yours is for us who are answering to say "hey, really quick because I don't have much time now, I haven't read through everything but have you thought about this... INSERT QUICK ADVICE HERE... I'll read properly later and sorry if you've covered that."

?? can you think back on your experiences and reflect on if an answer like that would have gone down better for you or created less frustration?

yeah, I agree in terms of the "what medication should I give" but it turns out their tank isn't cycled and that's the underyling issue, not really fixable by medication. then they just kinda run away, maybe?

anyway, keen to hear back. sorry for the novel response.

 

Interesting thread!

I'll agree with a lot of what's said here. Some of it is just new people not wanting to deal with answers they don't like, and a lot of it is older members being a bit off-putting, whether they're dumping info too quickly or just avoiding the question all together. I've seen both a lot, and it's something we can definitely work on as a community.

That said, the ones that really stick out to me that people who come for help and simply refuse answers. I'll see a post pop up every now and then that's something like "Help! My fish isn't acting right, and I don't know why!" Multiple people, with thousands of upvotes each, reply to this thread saying the same few things, and then the OP refuses to accept the answers. I have a pretty recent example in mind. Someone came on here with a clownfish, and couldn't figure out why it was having trouble swimming belly-down. Turns out, it had been fed a steady diet of bloodworms, and they refused to even try a different diet. THAT's the most frustrating thing for me. When you give a clear answer, support your reasoning, and sometimes even provide solid evidence, and they still refuse to try something else.

Quick thing about every thread turning into a stocking thread, as well. Sometimes, it's ridiculous. You used to see people throw fits over small stocking issues, when the question asked could be something as simple as "Hey, what lighting should I be using for my S. Repens?" I remember an absolutely beautiful 10 gallon that someone had on here that had a school of neons and a Dwarf Gourami. Gorgeous tank, and all the fish were in good health. But this guy's build thread turned into how he was abusing his pets, and how he needed at LEAST a 20. Luckily, the forum has become much less vicious since then, but we still have a way to go.

On the other side of that coin, sometimes it's absolutely impossible to ignore. If I see someone keeping 6 common goldfish in a 10 gallon, I'm going to call them on it, regardless of their question. I'll be kind, but that needs to be addressed. That's an extreme example, but one that shows up more than I'd like.

 

I guess I lense through answers that may not have read the thread clearly as someone who wants to help but doesn't have time to read a 3-7 page thread. My view is that if they didn't want to help, they wouldn't bother answering, but that's just me. I have seen some that come across the way you've said, though, so I understand how those make you feel. I tend to think it's more of a time thing than a lack of engagement thing maybe? or possibly i'm being more generous than I should

Sometimes, this is true, and a lack of time is understandable. Other times, it IS that there isn't a clear answer. The times that annoy me are the ones where it is OBVIOUS that someone is only interested in sharing and not engaging. There's a thread that's been going on lately, and I don't really want to identify it, but it has a lot of responses and there's been a lot of discussion about different sources of the problem. The original poster has been keeping it updated with problem solving, what he/she has done, responses from relevant parties, etc. And still, regularly, someone responds "did you check your water chemistry?" or "could X have happened?" or "this one time this happened to me and I'm SURE it's what happened to you" even though it is quite obvious by now that it isn't the case. If you really care whether he/she checked water chemistry, skI'm the previous pages! To ask a question like that, implying that you want an answer, without checking to see whether it's already been answered half a dozen times, tells me you don't really want to engage.

 

Interesting thread!

Why thank you! it was something that has crossed my mind multiple times and I finally decided to post... it's gained interest and i'm so pleased!

I'll agree with a lot of what's said here. Some of it is just new people not wanting to deal with answers they don't like, and a lot of it is older members being a bit off-putting, whether they're dumping info too quickly or just avoiding the question all together. I've seen both a lot, and it's something we can definitely work on as a community.

That's exactly why I love this community - I see people actively working on it which gives me hope not only for aquarists but for society at large. I better stop there or I'll get political

On the other side of that coin, sometimes it's absolutely impossible to ignore. If I see someone keeping 6 common goldfish in a 10 gallon, I'm going to call them on it, regardless of their question. I'll be kind, but that needs to be addressed. That's an extreme example, but one that shows up more than I'd like.

I tell my youngest step daughter about the worst ones and SHE picks out the problem before i'm done.

ME: so, this dude on fishlore has a 55L tank and an ammonia problem. guess what he has in there? well, there's 4 clown loaches--

12yo: WHOA, they'll get WAY too big for that tank! he's overstocked, isn't he?

ME: ... yes. yes. he is. nuff said.

12yo: is he listening to people who tell him?

ME: dunno.

12yo: did he stop replying when someone told him?

ME: (grinning from ear to ear) yes, yes he did

12yo: (shaking her head with disapproving look) ...some people...

LOLZ

Or the other day, this was priceless:

12yo: JEN! *guess* what I saw on our school trip today? there was this fish pond - like really small! like it was in the ground and it was small enough I could fit my arm across it. GUESS HOW MANY GOLDFISH THEY HAD IN IT?! 12! They had TWEEEELLLVVEEE goldfish in this tiny pond! and someone threw a lolly wrapper in there! (shakes her head) people just don't get it.

 

the ones that annoy me the most are ones that one of our more trusted fish keepers is helping someone out and someone new to the site jumps in with something off the wall as an easy fix but can be very detrimental to the tank with out getting all the details first.

Drives me up the wall. Especially when troubleshooting is required on the OPs post and someone advises something that will render the troubleshooting ineffective at best. I automatically ignore any cycle post that has 8 or more replies for mostly this exact reason.

 

Sometimes, this is true, and a lack of time is understandable. Other times, it IS that there isn't a clear answer. The times that annoy me are the ones where it is OBVIOUS that someone is only interested in sharing and not engaging. There's a thread that's been going on lately, and I don't really want to identify it, but it has a lot of responses and there's been a lot of discussion about different sources of the problem. The original poster has been keeping it updated with problem solving, what he/she has done, responses from relevant parties, etc. And still, regularly, someone responds "did you check your water chemistry?" or "could X have happened?" or "this one time this happened to me and I'm SURE it's what happened to you" even though it is quite obvious by now that it isn't the case. If you really care whether he/she checked water chemistry, skI'm the previous pages! To ask a question like that, implying that you want an answer, without checking to see whether it's already been answered half a dozen times, tells me you don't really want to engage.

i've seen that and I often try to reason out why someone would jump in without checking previous posts... I know I did that once before I realised how to see how many pages there were on a thread! I felt like an idiot. I wonder how often people see a thread title pop up and just don't bother looking to see how many pages it is and how old it is before they reply?

I find sharing "this happened to me" is usually people going "I think i've had something similar and this helped me"? I'll indicate that by saying "it sounds like you're going through what I went through when...and this is what I did..." I try not to sound like an expert when I consider myself at Aquarist Level 102 or, "moderate level beginner"

but yes, there are a few "enthusiastic" people who jump in with unrelated stories... again, i've been guilty of this and have been watching myself so I focus on the OPs issue.

what gets me is when the OP starts a new thread on the same topic and I lose what advice has already been given...

 

i've seen that and I often try to reason out why someone would jump in without checking previous posts... I know I did that once before I realised how to see how many pages there were on a thread! I felt like an idiot. I wonder how often people see a thread title pop up and just don't bother looking to see how many pages it is and how old it is before they reply?

I find sharing "this happened to me" is usually people going "I think i've had something similar and this helped me"? I'll indicate that by saying "it sounds like you're going through what I went through when...and this is what I did..." I try not to sound like an expert when I consider myself at Aquarist Level 102 or, "moderate level beginner"

but yes, there are a few "enthusiastic" people who jump in with unrelated stories... again, i've been guilty of this and have been watching myself so I focus on the OPs issue.

what gets me is when the OP starts a new thread on the same topic and I lose what advice has already been given...

I also hate it when I post after texasdormer or dave125 without seeing that they already have advice. I try to steer clear of them since we are all usually of the same mindset.

 

I also hate it when I post after texasdormer or dave125 without seeing that they already have advice. I try to steer clear of them since we are all usually of the same mindset.

Totally! i've finished writing my advice and hit "post" only to see one of them has just beat me to it and usually had the same or better advice and I slink away from the thread quietly...

 

Serious question. Is it wrong to call someone out on very bad advice? Meds, water change or stocking wise. An example would be to suggest my stocking to a new hobbiest.

 

Serious question. Is it wrong to call someone out on very bad advice? Meds, water change or stocking wise. An example would be to suggest my stocking to a new hobbiest.

I can't wait to see what others think about this. People have been gentle with me when i've got things wrong or partially wrong, and I appreciate it. the approach i've seen is "I wouldn't put X with Y because of Z."

 

Serious question. Is it wrong to call someone out on very bad advice? Meds, water change or stocking wise. An example would be to suggest my stocking to a new hobbiest.

Not at all. We have arguments all the time as to the correct course of action. The best way to highlight better advice would be to begin "the safest course of action would be..."

I try not to make anyone feel bad about poor advice, but sometimes people need to understand the science behind it.

 

I love following the ones were they argue with texasdomer over stocking.

 

I love following the ones were they argue with texasdomer over stocking.

same...let the entertainment commence!

 

Serious question. Is it wrong to call someone out on very bad advice? Meds, water change or stocking wise. An example would be to suggest my stocking to a new hobbiest.

Nah, I think it’s usually fine. Obviously be tactful. One thing I want to say is that “bad advice” can be relative. Unless it is truly outrageous, it’s best to look at things objectively, and keep personal feelings out of it.

 

This is definitely one of the better forums out there. For how active this place is and how many knowledgeable people are contributing, y'all play very nice with each other and newbies! Especially considering how many of the same questions you're fielding every single day.

I am surprised to see that Tapatalk isn't being brought up though. With the age of cell phones and apps, discovering and accessing forums through their webpages is becoming rarer. If someone wants a fish forum, this is the first place that comes up on a search of Tapatalk. And with the app, it completely bypasses all the info pages and the in your face stickies designed to get people the help they need before posting. (Heck, users even have an option to hide stickies.) I joined here the old fashioned way years ago, but the app makes keeping up with things a breeze.

The other issue with the app is that no one can see who is staff, and what someone's post count or signature is unless they go out of the way to check someone's profile directly. It levels the playing field in all the wrong ways for informational forums. That could be why you're seeing so many cases of newbies listening to newbies, because the OP has no clue who is more experienced.

It's also the age of instant gratification, and I know many people who will join multiple forums and Facebook groups, and then pick whichever is the fastest and most engaging, not whichever offers the best advice.