The fish house: Comments please!

Here's the project:

To convert a small garage into a fish house holding my own design of breeding tanks, growing tanks and barracks.

I have opted to use plastic storage boxes for the tanks, as they are light, easy to work and cheap. They will also lend themselves to easy modification for filter screen insertion and cutouts to allow water cascade from one to the next.

The design of the first rack will be something like below:


The water will cascade from one tank to the next down to the sump, where it will be filtered and heated before being pumped back to the first tank in line.

Each row will have it's own sump, and each tank will hold around 15 gallons. The number of tanks in line will be dictated by the length of run. I anticipate having runs of 8 tanks plus the sump, giving a total water capacity of 135 gallons per row. This will give me 24 tanks on this rack and a total fish space of 360 gallons. The economics are simple. It will only require three 300W heaters and three pumps to maintain the entire rack!

The sump design will be simple, with a floss filter and gravel initially. As this is only going to be used for growing out, there shouldn't be any further filtration requirements. Water changing will be done from the sump, avoiding the need to disturb the fry at all. Power outages will not cause any problems either, as the water will not be able to overflow any of the tanks or the sump.

I have 2 ideas for the cascade:

1. a full width filter screen made from plastic netting, like you use for crafting rugs etc, fitted into a rigid frame that just slots into guides in the tank and then use 1 1/2" plastic piping to drop the water to the bottom of the next tank inline;
2. To use the above type of screen and just make a cut-out in the side wall of the tank, so the water just cascades over the side to the next tank .

Questions:

Idea 1 seems the better of the two, but is more expensive. Idea 2 is cheaper but more prone to leaks and puts the water onto the surface, rather than forcing circulation.

Ideas folks?

The sump:

Here is the outline design for the sump. It will need to handle about 100 gallon per hour throughput. Is it workable?

 

You will need something to get the water moving down in the vats.
Current design will only move surface water.

Use a heavy a grade of plastic tote as you can find.
Lighter weights will bow/bend with the weight of the water.

Cascades will leak.
You need to add a lip to the overflow over/into the next one in the line.

That's all that comes to mind at present.

 

I did think about the water circulation in each of the tanks, which is why I favour idea 1, which will drop the water into the bottom of the next tank, forcing it to circulate, whereas the cascade would simply run into the lower tank and move perhaps the top inch of water. It wouldn't be difficult to have two feeds from each tank, one each end, to increase the current.

the containers I have in mind are the stackable type, which are very strong and actually have 110ltr capacity, slightly less than I was planning, but still quite sufficient. these are a clear plastic with reinforcing on the long sides. It would be possible to arrange these end-on, so they take less room and have the outlet at the back running to the front of the next, or the other way about. This would force a current right through the entire length of the box, from the bottom to the top. By dropping the outlet as low as possible in the next tank, it should increase the force with which the water falls too.

I also have the idea of introducing air bubble wands to each box to help with circulation.

 

Perhaps you could look at the wide-end vacuum attachments for what to use with idea #1.

 

ok, here is the trial setup:

3 boxes as 1 (7g)
2 filter grills, 2
2 fittings and pipe, 3

I am going to put this all together above the 8' tank, to make sure it all works as planned. I can pump the water straight from the 8' into the top box and just let the bottom box drain into the tank below. It will give me an idea of whether the system works and how well it operates, as well as giving me another 3 growing tanks for the time being! (No need for additional filtration either, since the water will already be stable)

I'll post some pics when I have it set up.

 

Depending on the fry you might have jumping if you don't have lids?

 

some body might have already suggested this, but what if you connected the tubs with a pvc pipe...covered with soft mesh...about midway down, along with the cascade, and bubble wands

 

Depending on the fry you might have jumping if you don't have lids?

All the boxes come with removable lids as an extra, if I need them, which I probably shall!

some body might have already suggested this, but what if you connected the tubs with a pvc pipe...covered with soft mesh...about midway down, along with the cascade, and bubble wands

The problem with plastic is that it bends under pressure, which would lead to leaks on any join or connector mid-way, unfortunately. I had thought of having that sort of screen to allow the water through, but the side panels don't meet, and any pressure would just break the joint.

 

yeah...I didnt think about the pressure
you could always use duct tape

 

The trial tanks are filled and working. The flow isn't terrific, but that's because the pump I'm using isn't the strongest, but for a trial run, it seems to be doing the job. Circulation isn't a problem even with the low output pump, and the water is moving as I had hoped it would, and is spiraling up the tanks from the outlet to the intake. I found this out by using meth blue to color the water and watched it's progress. With a stronger pump, the circulation from tank to tank and within each tank will be fine!

The flow rate on this setup is about 60 gallonper hour and the currents within the tanks are not too strong for the smaller fry to cope with. Addition of airstones will further help the currents by putting them in the corners. 2 stones per tank would be brilliant! (Just have to get hold of some more air pumps!)

one problem that has already shown itself is the corner screen has broken away from the side, so the final ones will need something better on that joint, or more time to cure!

it has helped to prove the design, and I don't see any major issues with the full blown rack, except that the flow pipe will need to be bigger to cope with the volume. This is using 22mm overflow pipe, the final setup will need to be 1 1/2" waste. That might prove problematic on the fittings, but I'm sure they can be found.

Here's what they look like now:

BTW, I was wrong, when the tanks are filled the sides DO meet!

 

Necessity is the FATHER of invention Looks like your set for some fry!
Next comes the fish house........What is the average winter temp. where you live? Heat is lost through the open tops of each tank, if you have trouble keeping it constent with 3 heaters, that would be another reason to have the lids on. As you construct this, are you dreaming of all the NEW fish you can get? Will you be attaching a nitrate filter in your new design also? Or make allowance for water changes? I would love to have a constant clean water source going through something like you are planning, but that presents all new challenges.

You are a true inspiration!

April

 

Excellent idea, and very good craftsmanship! I'm impressed, but unfortunately can't offer much advice other than to keep up the good work and post plenty of pictures along the way.

 

Will you be attaching a nitrate filter in your new design also?

It's in the overall plans, but probably won't happen for a while. The water changes will be minimal, since each run will have 405 ltrs (107 gallons), it shouldn't need very much in the way of changes. there will also be ample space in the sump for plants, which might have a similar effect to the aquaponics!

What is the average winter temp. where you live?

In winter the temperature rarely drops below freezing, and the fish house will be insulated and heated, so I don't foresee any major problems with a stable temperature, but don't want to risk the temperature dropping too quickly, hence the heaters in the sumps.

Or make allowance for water changes?

Water changes will be easy! it can all be done straight from the sump. All I will need to do is connect a waste pipe to the outlet of the last tank to divert the flow from the sump, and fill the sump with fresh water! could it be any easier?

I will be able to do water changes in about 15 minutes, instead of 2 hours! The current that the water creates will keep the majority of the debris suspended, so the tanks should stay pretty clean on the whole. Maybe have to spend half an hour a day with a gravel vac in the tanks, but still not a major issue. All the tanks will be bare or minimal with maybe a few silk plants and rocks, but there won't be any gravel to worry about.

other than to keep up the good work and post plenty of pictures along the way.

Don't worry.... there will be plenty of those!

 

I'm just curious, what did you use to make the holes in the containers.

 

A core drill bit worked a treat, but they are so soft and easy to work that a screwdriver would make a small hole very easily. This is something that I am not concerned about as they are going to be in the fish house, out of bounds to most people and won't be at any risk from damage other than accidental.

One of the advantages of this system is that if a tank develops a problem it's a simple matter to take it out and replace it. All I would need to do is to stop the pump, drain the affected tank down, disconnect the inlet/outlet pipes and slide the tank out of the rack. If I wanted to do a repair, a temporary loop from the tank above to the tank below and the system is running again, or slide a new tank in and re-connect the pipes and it's on stream again.

Whichever way I look at this, it just makes so much sense that I can't understand why no-one has done it this way before! I can't be the first one to dream this system up, surely?

 

Ok thanks, I'm just curious to how people do things, ideas for when I can do it, though that's a long ways away, parents wouldn't like a fish house. :

I'm sure your not the only one who's thought of this, just the only one online It's a good idea, similar to what I have thought of that would be effective. Your design is similar to what they do in stores around me, except there's is a bit more upscale. I'm thinking if it works for them should work for you.

 

I don't think any one HAS thought of this, you are one of a kind, and what people think should cost $20,000, + to build, you are going to do for $200. It may not be a show case fish house, but I think you should get a trophy for original thinking!

April

 

incidentally, the two tanks are now supporting nearly 200 molly fry! When I moved the sailfin molly fry this evening I did a re-count and found that she hadn't had 98, but 109! I have also re-located the older ones that are just about ready to go. It will be interesting to see if they grow any more with the extra space they have now!

The idea seems to work well, and I have had the oportunity to re-think the plumbing and now have come up with a better way of doing the outlets which will overcome the problems of the screen breaking away from the side wall, so the trial was definitely worthwhile.

I can go out tomorrow and buy the bins for the main rack now and know exactly what is needed to achieve the results I want. It will also be cheaper than I first thought, since the plumbing is simpler and less involved than I first thought, and the racking will be simple to make too.

So, wall building, lining and electrics tomorrow, I hope. Should get time to make the bins up too, if all goes well. That will be the first side of the fish house almost done by the end of Tuesday, if I'm lucky!

Now rack 2:

The betta barracks. 90 individual tanks, arranged in the same staggered pattern with sumps at the end of each run. These bins are smaller and much narrower so the rack will only stand out about 10" from the wall. each bin is divided into three sections with screens so I only need 35 bins to accomplish this setup. depending on the layout of the fish house, it may be possible to double this rack up and run two setups, back to back down the center of the room, enlarging the sump and sharing it between the two rows on each level. The capacity of each bin is around 4 gallons, giving each run a total of 24 gallons of fish space for 18 fish total. Could be a little tight if they grow out too much, but fine for the first three months!

 

They will have to have solid color dividers, tops for sure as they are jumpers and really you don't need deep tanks since bettas don't make a lot of use of them. What are you going to do with that many bettas, keep as many as possible?

 

I think it's called being prepared! One sporn of betta splendens can produce 200 fry, half of which could be male. They need 3 months to grow out, by which time they will be killing each other if not separated. I intend to have at least 2 breeding pairs! Why do I need so many tanks?

here I am working on the guidelines issued by Chickadee on the equipment needed to raise bettas, and I see no reason to argue with her on this. If it can be made possible during this project, why not build it in?

The tanks themselves are only about 9" high, so that will allow for 71/2" of water, ample for the requirements. The lids are standard with this particular bin, as they are designed for storing DVDs! It's amazing what you can find when you look!

Once they have developed, they will be sold on the same as the other fry.

 

I figured such, well do enjoy that

 

impressive design, especially under such short notice! i'm especially interested in your betta splendens setup - it might be the ticket to us breeding angel with the perfect white platinum male.

 

Wow, Tim! I can't wait until it's all done.

 

The final phase for this project is the development of the breeding system. This is very different and an offshoot of something I did back in the spring.

these are a very radical design, as yet unique to the best of my knowledge. The design is below.

The principal of these tanks is simple. The crucial issue with labyrinth fish as a whole is water temperature and air temperature differences. With this system, the air above the water level is constant and the same as the water, since the top of the tank is sealed.

The water is kept at level by a vacuum created inside the top of the tank, a system I developed in the spring with the water column tank. These will be on a smaller scale than that, with a total water depth of 15", and a depth above the flute of only 6". Access is through the slot in the center of the tank, with water below and above the access.

The final dimensions have still to be worked out, as has the flow control and filtering, but it should be possible to connect these together in a similar fashion to the other racks, using a single sump filter for multiple tanks. The main difference here would be that each tank would feed directly to and from the sump with it's own pump system, so the setup will be much more complex. They will also need to be made of glass, which puts the cost per unit up a lot! this is a much more involved phase and will probably take a long time to complete.

 

and we were just going to use the hurricane lamp method on the splendens breeding... that's an impressive design and I look forward to seeing it constructed. you really need to move to Denver and start operations!! (no ulterior motive like wanting to buy custom tanks from you :;a) .. it's within a day's drive of Vegas and you'd find plenty of casinos willing to launder their mob money through your tank designs.

 

Thank you for the complement dave. It should be a very effective breeding system if the column is any indication!

 

timg... what do you do for a living??

 

Thank you for the complement dave. It should be a very effective breeding system if the column is any indication!

yea, i'd say that's turned out to be a 'mild' success.

 

I am a Guest House manager in my spare time

 

You should be an architect, or a design engineer!

 

I am a Guest House manager in my spare time

Realy? cool! Whats it called? my mums most probably stayed ther. she'ss tayed in nearly every hotel/guest house up there! lol

Gwenz

 

check my profile gwenz! the info is all there.

 

hmm.. doesn't ring a bell. never mind! lol

Gwenz

 

it's a quiet little place where all the guests are served is marmite on toast. :;a

 

You laugh, but Marmite is served in small portion servings in a lot of British hotels!

 

hmm.. doesn't ring a bell. never mind! lol

It's only a small concern, with 19 bedrooms, so she's probably missed it. You'll have to remind her to ring and book in next time she's up this way! (then she can see what your hobby can do to people!)

 

ye! lol! I'll let her know about it next time she needs a place to stay up there!

Gwenz

 

You laugh, but Marmite is served in small portion servings in a lot of British hotels!

lol, isn't it UK law to notify patrons of that?

 

Not patrons, environmental health!

 

you don't know what you're missing!... it's marmite that keeps me sane!

and keeps the ideas flowing

and helps me to cope with the workload, hours and walking the dog!