The Fish Half Of A Snake Cage

Hello fishlore, I hope my first post finds some helpful eyes.

I know you are aquarium centered but first I would like to talk about why my aquarium is what it is.

First some backstory: A couple years ago we found an injured Northwestern Garter snake in my yard, and decided to keep him as a pet. He has a sever spinal injury and is not the most mobile of snake but has happily acclimated and thrived with us, growing from a repurposed 10 gallon aquarium turned terrarium and now into a half and half 20 gallon long I have custom built to house fish/snails as well as the snake himself. The reason behind this is it turns out this type of snake in my local area is a very good Hunter under water, they eat anything that swims from tadpoles to fingerling trout or bass, as well as the occasional worm or snail. When he was quite small the food he would most readily eat was the wonderful endler (sold as feeder) guppy. I would house them in a smaller display tank a few at a time and feed them to him in a small bowl. I had the idea to build a better tank for him to share since he likes to swim so I built the one we will be talking about here.

Currently I have a 20 gallon long, divided diagonally with a black acrilic divider 5 inches tall siliconed in. This tank is 8 months old and well cycled/established. It is well lit by a full spectrum led light for 12 hours per day and heated to a consistent 78 degrees. I am currently using an aqeon quiet flow "e" 3 gallon filter modified with sponge media in the intake and in the filter compartment with no charcoal filter installed. On the fish side there are local river rocks all the size of a marble or larger in a single layer so the snake cannot accidentally swallow them. There are golf ball sized stones making a natural slopped entrance to the pond and a larger stone in the middle to steer the current from the filter. I have some planted tropical wendtiI that is doing quite well. The current bioload is 1 male endler and 6 females, as well as a manageable population of tadpole snails. This is the 3rd generation of fry that have been born in this tank without a trip to the local fish store and they are nearing 3 months so will probably be on their way to the food bowl as the next group is born. I think the male fry as quick as I can tell what they are and only try to keep up to a dozen guppies through each cycle. The snake does enforce natural selection and thin the heard from the pond side on his own occasionally but usually the guppies can hide well enough and don't get very stressed by him after a month or so. The snails are thinned from the pond side by him swiftly. The only issue the tank has is if the snake decides to surge the bioload... He is definitely much larger than the fish and this side of the tank only holds 4 gallons of water after rocks etc. This is rare (less than monthly) but does cause immediate foaming and a required aggressive water change. The snake also means I am limited in filter options as my water line is no where near the top of the total enclosure and I have to keep holes in the lid to a minimum.

So now onto the question I would like an expert to give me some advice on.

I have learned more about aquariums raising this snake as an adult with Google than I ever did as a kid raising gold fish with a library card and your forum has been a big part of that. I have also started to enjoy fish keeping, even though my fish do have an end purpose.

To help with the bioload surges, I have considered making my old 10 gallon into a fresh water sump/second tank. My thoughts are to drill a primary and secondary drain at and just below the water line, independently valve them to balance flow, turn them down with elbows and filter sponge the inlets. Below the main enclosure I would like to use the 10 gallon I already have. Here's the big question, could I install a single screened baffle to protect the return pump and use the rest of the lower tank to have some fish that I might enjoy keeping? Since the water volume is really just to absorb shock, not as a true filter sump it seems like I should be able to use both tanks as display. I would like to install just a large HOB or larger internal filter in the lower tank to keep cleaning simple like it is currently and I would love to do a background in there and keep a small school of neon tetras, without worrying about the snake getting them lol.

Any advice on how something like this would work or not work? Also if anyone has done something like this, what would be a good pump option to lift 3+ feet from the lower tank but not overwhelm the small 4 gallon snake pond with current?

 

"Lucky" the Northwestern Garter snakes home:
Lucky himself: named by my children because he's lucky he didn't get hit by the lawnmower.
My boys named this generation of guppies "Shazaam" they only ever name the male because the females tend to look pretty similar.

One of a couple dozen tad pole snails, not a big deal in this tank as the population is watched closely by Lucky.

 

I actually have several pythons and owned multiple garter snakes and this just seems like a bad idea it would work for a ball python but that garter snake will probably end up drowning. Cool build tho regardless it's like a minI ecosystem.

 

You could do a canister filter as your return and ramp it down coming into the snake tank. Most will be able to cover that 3' head, and cleaning would be easy.
If the tank is tempered you can NOT drill it. It will shatter. I feel like you would need to fabricate some type of internal overflow box ( since the HOB overflow boxes require the water level to be at the top of the tank). I have no idea how that would work without drilling the bottom of the tank. Maybe get a reef/plex glass tank with the internal overflow and modify it to your water level height. However, there is the possibility of flooding the snake tank if you get a clog in the overflow.

Either way I dig the current set up! I hope this helps a little bit

 

Thanks for your appreciation of the build. I don't honestly think he's going to down himself, he's been swimming in it for about 8 months and hasn't had an issue. I will be honest though that is why I designed it so shallow and we were pretty nervous when we first introduced him to it. In the 10 gallon set up we had a 9" long 3 inch deep oval Corning Ware dish and he loved swimming in it too. My boys and I like to watch his wild "cousins" chasing fry and tadpoles at the local lakes and rivers so it seems the Northwest breed of Garter is a bit more natural at it than the Common garter.

Any idea as to whether or not a connected tank in sump configuration would work like I'm thinking though?

 

Thanks for your appreciation of the build. I don't honestly think he's going to down himself, he's been swimming in it for about 8 months and hasn't had an issue. I will be honest though that is why I designed it so shallow and we were pretty nervous when we first introduced him to it. In the 10 gallon set up we had a 9" long 3 inch deep oval Corning Ware dish and he loved swimming in it too. My boys and I like to watch his would "cousins" chasing fry and tadpoles at the local lakes and rivers so it seems the Northwest breed of Garter is a bit more natural at it than the Common garter.

Any idea as to whether or not a connected tank in sump configuration would work like I'm thinking though?

That current setup actually looks fine you just need to do more water changes or a bigger water change and add a bunch of plants to suck up the nitrates. Also are you aware of the nitrogen cycle? And how do you clean the filter cartridges?

 

That current setup actually looks fine you just need to do more water changes or a bigger water change and add a bunch of plants to suck up the nitrates. Also are you aware of the nitrogen cycle? And how do you clean the filter cartridges?

I did actually learn about the nitrogen cycle specifically when I built this tank last fall, never knew that's why my goldfish died when I was younger lol.

Currently I do a weekly water change of about a gallon (20-25%).

I don't use the included filter cartridges for this quiet flow E 3 gallon. I'm that brands line-up the 3 gallon doesn't come with enough room for the 3 stage mechanical/chemical/biological filter kit but instead just the chemical charcoal filter. I pulled the guts out of it and put a course sponge under the impeller to protect the fry. And instead of the factory charcoal filter I use yet more sponge above the impeller in the outlet side. To clean the whole thing I draw a cup of top water out of the tank and put the upper sponge directly in there, I only squeeze/rinse it in aquarium water as needed monthly or longer. Then I slide the pump unit out of the housing and grab the pre-filter sponge with a fork. That one I rinse off at least every other week or if the flow slows down. I use my tiny little home made gravel vac to reach down in the housing and suck out anything I dropped during removal. Then I put it back together. The pump housing never ends up being removed. The upper sponge is never allowed to dry out.

Between my upper sponge and the texture of the stones in the tank I know I colonize enough bacteria to handle the load of the guppy breeders and the snails.

The snake having occasional accidents in there is an issue though as by the time I get home from work the overload has happened and foam is all over the walls around the filter. The bacteria doesn't multiply fast enough for that load, which I would estimate is enough to load a fully cycled 20 gallon. If I don't do an immediate 50% or more change I end up with high ammonia and nitrite. In addition to having to scrub the foam stains out of the tank lol. This I learned after wondering why it happened the first couple times, months apart. My normal parameters are unreadable/0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, 0 chlorine, ~20ppm nitrate, ~7.5 pH, ~80ppm alkaline, and I have soft water. The only parameter different after a week in the tank vs my water waiting to go in is the nitrate so I think it's balancing pretty well when the snake behaves. I am also lucky, I have untreated well water that test safe for fish right from the tap so I just have to get the temperature right when I stage a pitcher of water for the weeks change.

I would love to have a fish tank for fish tanks sake at this point now that I know how not to kill fish and I have the empty 10 gallon laying here, that's what brings the question up. I am really hoping to reduce the foam when there is a snake gift left in the wrong half of his cage, it's kind of like coming home to a dog that got sick on white carpet. It doesn't happen every day but when it does wouldn't it be better to have vinyl flooring? It also seems like the fish would be happier that way as well, if his load was spread across ~14 gallons total vs the current 4 it should significantly reduce the shock factor when I change whatever percent of water it will need to be at that point. It could also centralize the filtration system so my 2 tanks only need one combined.

I'm so relieved by the way, that you answered this the way you did. I was very worried I would get boo and hiss for starting my aquarium hobby as a means to feed a snake.

 

I did actually learn about the nitrogen cycle specifically when I built this tank last fall, never knew that's why my goldfish died when I was younger lol.

Currently I do a weekly water change of about a gallon (20-25%).

I don't use the included filter cartridges for this quiet flow E 3 gallon. I'm that brands line-up the 3 gallon doesn't come with enough room for the 3 stage mechanical/chemical/biological filter kit but instead just the chemical charcoal filter. I pulled the guts out of it and put a course sponge under the impeller to protect the fry. And instead of the factory charcoal filter I use yet more sponge above the impeller in the outlet side. To clean the whole thing I draw a cup of top water out of the tank and put the upper sponge directly in there, I only squeeze/rinse it in aquarium water as needed monthly or longer. Then I slide the pump unit out of the housing and grab the pre-filter sponge with a fork. That one I rinse off at least every other week or if the flow slows down. I use my tiny little home made gravel vac to reach down in the housing and suck out anything I dropped during removal. Then I put it back together. The pump housing never ends up being removed. The upper sponge is never allowed to dry out.

Between my upper sponge and the texture of the stones in the tank I know I colonize enough bacteria to handle the load of the guppy breeders and the snails.

The snake having occasional accidents in there is an issue though as by the time I get home from work the overload has happened and foam is all over the walls around the filter. The bacteria doesn't multiply fast enough for that load, which I would estimate is enough to load a fully cycled 20 gallon. If I don't do an immediate 50% or more change I end up with high ammonia and nitrite. In addition to having to scrub the foam stains out of the tank lol. This I learned after wondering why it happened the first couple times, months apart. My normal parameters are unreadable/0 nitrite, 0 ammonia, 0 chlorine, ~20ppm nitrate, ~7.5 pH, ~80ppm alkaline, and I have soft water. The only parameter different after a week in the tank vs my water waiting to go in is the nitrate so I think it's balancing pretty well when the snake behaves. I am also lucky, I have untreated well water that test safe for fish right from the tap so I just have to get the temperature right when I stage a pitcher of water for the weeks change.

I would love to have a fish tank for fish tanks sake at this point now that I know how not to kill fish and I have the empty 10 gallon laying here, that's what brings the question up. I am really hoping to reduce the foam when there is a snake gift left in the wrong half of his cage, it's kind of like coming home to a dog that got sick on white carpet. It doesn't happen every day but when it does wouldn't it be better to have vinyl flooring? It also seems like the fish would be happier that way as well, if his load was spread across ~14 gallons total vs the current 4 it should significantly reduce the shock factor when I change whatever percent of water it will need to be at that point. It could also centralize the filtration system so my 2 tanks only need one combined.

I'm so relieved by the way, that you answered this the way you did. I was very worried I would get boo and hiss for starting my aquarium hobby as a means to feed a snake.

Maybe start doing a 40 percent water change? Or two 25 percent water changes per weeks? And for something like this I would upgrade to pure sponge filters instead of making a sump it's simply not needed for such a small aquarium.



I use these in all of my guppy tanks and they do extremely well and have a lot of surface room for bacteria to grow but you have to keep up with water changes. Sponge filters are ugly but you can easily hide them with a decent sized rock.

 

You could do a canister filter as your return and ramp it down coming into the snake tank. Most will be able to cover that 3' head, and cleaning would be easy.
If the tank is tempered you can NOT drill it. It will shatter. I feel like you would need to fabricate some type of internal overflow box ( since the HOB overflow boxes require the water level to be at the top of the tank). I have no idea how that would work without drilling the bottom of the tank. Maybe get a reef/plex glass tank with the internal overflow and modify it to your water level height. However, there is the possibility of flooding the snake tank if you get a clog in the overflow.

Either way I dig the current set up! I hope this helps a little bit

Thanks for digging it!

I hadn't thought it may be tempered, thanks for that thought. It's an aqeon standard glass 20 gallon long. I had assumed it was probably not tempered as it was only $30 at the local shop but I probably need to look into that. If it's not tempered however do you think I could/should do it the way I described?

I read that a good way to make sure it can't overflow is to drill a primary and secondary hole in the back side right at and just below the waterline. You adjust the ball valve on the lower drain until you just start to trickle through the upper drain to match the feed of the return pump. Leave the upper drain valve open in case the lower primary gets clogged. To prevent a full on siphon you put a small hole on each elbow inside the tank at your expected waterline to let the vacuum break if the water gets lower than it should or a pump fails.

Anyone out there have success drilling out the back of an "aqueon standard glass" line of aquariums?