Tfreema's Angelfish Breeding Attempt

Sorry in advance that this is long. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
I have an angelfish, Goldie, that is gravid with eggs and showing her breeding tube. There are two other angelfish in the tank and she is taking turns swimming around with both of them. Each of them are chasing the other away from her.
I cannot tell which one she is preferring and I do not see breeding tubes on either one. I really want to breed Smokey that is a smokey blue with a recessive pearlscale gene. The other is a black marble.
Should I just remove the black marble to see what happens? Or wait for her to lay the eggs to see who she lets fertilized them? (If one of the others is even a male, lol).

Background:
I bought 8 juvenile angelfish during the summer to let them grow together and hopefully pair off and bond.
As they grew, I reduced the number to 4 in a 45 gallon tank. I thought one was getting picked on recently because her tail looked tattered so I removed her. Turns out she is a black lace combtail veil, Lacie, and her tail is perfectly normal. Oh well, I will not try to reintroduce her at this point. She may be a male for all I know....
I am rearranging today to get her into my 40b and can put Blackie in with her.

If you have read this far, thank you!

 

bizaliz3 can help!

 

I say you put her alone with the one you want her to breed with

 

I think that is what I will do.

I got some moving around done today. Giving the new inhabitants in 40b a day to acclimate and will add Lacie and Blackie tomorrow.

That will leave Goldie and Smokie in the 45.

Only time will tell how this will work out. If I wind up with angelfish fry, I will have to figure out a growout tank as I keep making new tanks display, lol.

We have eggs! Goldie and Smokie have their first batch.
It is only them and a batch of cories that I may remove to the 120 to ease the tensions, and a few nerites.
I will put a sponge over the filter intakes.



He seems to be doing a good job fertilizing.

 

Oh wow!!!! CONGRATULATIONS!!! I'm so excited for you

 

Me too. I am not sure how this batch will go. Every time I go in there they are nowhere near the eggs to be fanning them and quite a few have already turned white.
Time will tell, but at least I got a pair that will hopefully figure it out and not try to kill each other like the last pair did, lol.
I am super excited that Smokie is one that paired off and really hoping it works out. He is a beauty!
I really wish I could keep 4 in that 45 since Lacie and Blackie are not working out in the 40b.

Well, they ate the eggs. I guess I should have at least left the moon lights on last night.
1st fail done so we are one more closer to success lol.

 

Awww I'm sorry! But you're right, there will be more opportunities it's a step in the right direction

 

As long as they don't start trying to kill each other, I can be patient to let them figure it out.
Should I be leaving the lights on after the eggs are laid? Is the moonlight option sufficient?

 

I'm not really sure if it makes a difference. When I'm really paranoid and want nothing to go wrong, I leave the lights on. But I've also had the lights off with angels and eggs before with no problem. The main reason for leaving the light on is if it's a community tank you don't want other fish to eat them when the lights go out.

 

Question, looks like your filter intake is very close to where they laid eggs? Won't this pose a problem when the hatch? Just asking, I know this brood don't make it but they will try again and would hate to see your fry sucked up the filter. Good luck on your breeding efforts

 

Question, looks like your filter intake is very close to where they laid eggs? Won't this pose a problem when the hatch? Just asking, I know this brood don't make it but they will try again and would hate to see your fry sucked up the filter. Good luck on your breeding efforts

Yes, you are right it is. I have a pre-filter sponge to put over when eggs are laid again. I have also provided a slate on that end further away from intake in hopes they use that instead. We should know soon.

 

I hope the next go round is a success!! I'm looking forward to it. Do you think they are close to laying again?
As for the filter intake. When they first hatch they would be fine because they stay stuck to whatever they are on for about 5 more days. Once they start free swimming is when the intake becomes a danger to them.

Do you plan to take them out before they start swimming? (that's my favorite time to do it...after they hatch but before they start swimming) or are you going to leave them with the parents? (when that day comes anyway lol)

 

I hope the next go round is a success!! I'm looking forward to it. Do you think they are close to laying again?
As for the filter intake. When they first hatch they would be fine because they stay stuck to whatever they are on for about 5 more days. Once they start free swimming is when the intake becomes a danger to them.

Do you plan to take them out before they start swimming? (that's my favorite time to do it...after they hatch but before they start swimming) or are you going to leave them with the parents? (when that day comes anyway lol)

I have not decided yet. It really depends on timing with all my other rearranging going on. Probably remove a portion of them, but leave some for mom and dad to take care of.......

 

If you leave them in do you have to take out all other fish or will the parents protect them?

 

If you leave them in do you have to take out all other fish or will the parents protect them?

It depends on the parents. They are usually pretty good at protecting the babies for the first couple weeks. But in my experience, by about 3 weeks they will just lay more eggs and cut the cord with those babies.

If a baby ventures too far away, the parents will grab them up with their mouths and put them back where they want them to stay. Its really quite precious.

 

I only have cory cats and nerite snails in that tank with the angel pair. They would have to be extremely small and slow for the cories to eat them. The snails however can eat up a batch of eggs in no time so that is something I may want to think about. There are 4 zebras and a few zebra thorn snails.
So that is another decision I have to make. Do I remove the snails when eggs are laid? They are very good at hiding so the next question is, how do I find them all in time, lol!

 

Hello tfreema, and I am in a similar position as you. In my very limited experience, I have began to remove the eggs as I find it a more efficient way to get to the point for free swimming fry. The snails are definetly a fast eater when it comes to a spawn of eggs and I would see about either removing the eggs to raise them on your own or see about adding an airstone at the base of your angels chosen spawn surface. In my limited time with the pairs I have, for some reason the air stone helps to deter the snails from going up the plants or stones. Not sure if it would help your situation next time or not, but worth a try.
Many congrats on the progress as I have lost a couple spawns in my learning curve but am making progress as well!

 

Hello tfreema, and I am in a similar position as you. In my very limited experience, I have began to remove the eggs as I find it a more efficient way to get to the point for free swimming fry. The snails are definetly a fast eater when it comes to a spawn of eggs and I would see about either removing the eggs to raise them on your own or see about adding an airstone at the base of your angels chosen spawn surface. In my limited time with the pairs I have, for some reason the air stone helps to deter the snails from going up the plants or stones. Not sure if it would help your situation next time or not, but worth a try.
Many congrats on the progress as I have lost a couple spawns in my learning curve but am making progress as well!

Thanks for the tip. I will try that before resorting to removing the snails. It is really fun to try this and see what happens for sure. Best of luck to you on yours. Do you have a thread for your breeding project?

Bizaliz3 it looks like my black lace may be gravid with eggs. . I am considering switching her out with the gold marble to see if she and Smokie will pair up. Would you recommend that? Or is it best to stick with the pair that chose each other? Remember Smokie and Lacie were the ones I wanted to pair up, but I removed Lacie thinking her combtail look was damage.

 

I have not started my own thread as of yet as I have been dealing with some fish I rescued from a very neglectful owner. but have been taking pics and plan on making one soon. Thank you and I hope your next times will be better!

 

I have not started my own thread as of yet as I have been dealing with some fish I rescued from a very neglectful owner. but have been taking pics and plan on making one soon. Thank you and I hope your next times will be better!

Be sure to let me know when you start your thread so I don't miss it.

I have decided not to stress over it and it's ok if it takes a few times to get it. If it doesn't work out, then I have some beautiful angelfish to pick out for centerpieces in a couple tanks.

 

One of my females has had 3 different partners. As long as you remove the current partner...in my experience they will accept the new partner. Go for it!!!

 

One of my females has had 3 different partners. As long as you remove the current partner...in my experience they will accept the new partner. Go for it!!!

I think I will. Maybe Goldie will work out better with the rams that will be put back in the 40b this weekend. If not, I will have to rehome 2 angelfish. . Just no more room for tanks.....

Well shoot! I waited too long to trade out Goldie and Lacie to be in with Smokie. The pair in the 40b, Lacie and Blackie, evidently took the new scape as a sign to lay eggs. I just put all the new decor and plants in there last night.
Based on their breeding tubes, they are male and female. I did not witness the egg laying, but Lacie was really fat and I have never seen a big fat breeding tube stuck out so far. Blackies also well extruded looking pretty pointy. However, he is not going near the eggs.
Go figure, I never expected to wind up with two pairs and that throws a real monkey wrench in my plans and tank space available. I had planned to put the ram pair back in that tank tomorrow.
Would a 26g bowfront be big enough for just a Breeder pair? If so, then I would just have to rehome the female marble in it and move my rams in that tank to another one.........
Big sigh.



Just a few eggs turned white so far so it looks like they are fertilized.
I am brainstorming how to get all these fish moved around to have room for the two angelfish pairs.
Any thoughts on using a 26g bow front for an angel pair?

bizaliz3 what do you think about a divided 55 gallon for two breeding pairs?
My favorite mbuna cichlid died this weekend and without him, I am open to giving up the rest to make room for my angelfish and Rams.
I can always do cichlids again when I am able to get a 75g.

 

I think you should go for it. I'm sure it would work

I'm so sorry you lost your favorite cichlid :-(

 

Well quite a few turned white. I got the bright idea to pick them off with tweezers. If those two had teeth, my hand and arm would have been tore up, lol.
I got a few an focused on clusters and obviously fungus ones.
They started eating the eggs so I stopped. I was afraid they would freak out and eat them all. Should I persist?

 

It's the parents job to remove the white eggs. So if they are still with the parents, I say let them figure it out!

 

It's been 48 hours so if there are eggs that are not white, they are fertilized right?

 

Yes after 48 hours you should be past the hump and those should all be fertilized

 

Yay!!

I think you should go for it. I'm sure it would work

I'm so sorry you lost your favorite cichlid :-(

Ok, one more question about the 55g. Do you think 2 breeding pairs would co-exist without a divider?

My favorite fish store guy has agreed to take my cichlids this weekend so I will get a divider just in case, but wonder if I should try it without first.........

 

Ok, one more question about the 55g. Do you think 2 breeding pairs would co-exist without a divider?

My favorite fish store guy has agreed to take my cichlids this weekend so I will get a divider just in case, but wonder if I should try it without first.........

It's totally possible, but it's a gamble. You'd have to keep a close eye on them. If they can come to an "agreement" as to who gets what side of the tank, it could work. But there is a good chance it won't.

 

It's totally possible, but it's a gamble. You'd have to keep a close eye on them. If they can come to an "agreement" as to who gets what side of the tank, it could work. But there is a good chance it won't.

Yeah, I had a feeling that was wishful thinking. I will get the divider, but put them in all at the same time together first to see what happens. Then when it gets ugly, I will slide the divider in.
Good thing is I have two filters on the tank so I don't have to worry about water circulation on the non-filter side of the divider.

I think I will use this as an opportunity to rescape the 55 gallon too. It never ends......

Well, the eggs are gone. Maybe me messing around with them and planting in the tank was too much stress for them.
They seemed to be much more attentive than the other pair so maybe next time will be better.

 

And next time will be here before you know it!!

 

I feel like I have several intertwining threads around these angelfish pairs. I cleared out my 55 this morning, got some great wood and planned to insert a divider and put both Angel pairs in it. Got home and went to check on how I can move the plecos favorite rock over and the pair in the 45 have laid eggs again. Big sigh!!
Smokie keeps running Goldie away from the eggs though. I hope they don't turn ugly on me after all this.
Do you think they would freak out if I moved the plant with eggs over to new home with them or should I just put the other pair on their side and wait?

Is it weird that they have laid eggs in two spots? And that Smokie doesn't seem to want Goldie near them? I am starting to wonder if they are both female?? Or are the males just sometimes overly vigilant?
He is swimming furiously back and forth between each clutch. The poor cories are getting run all over the place. I really wish I could have gotten them moved before more egg laying........

 

That is so odd! And they are the only two angels in that tank? Were the eggs laid on the same day?

 

That is so odd! And they are the only two angels in that tank? Were the eggs laid on the same day?

Yes, just the two and yes, they were all laid today or sometime since yesterday evening.

Is it bad that I kind of hope they fail so I can get them moved to the divided 55?

 

Did you catch them either time? Like do you know for sure who laid the eggs?

 

No. the first ones were there earlier in the day, then when I went back this evening, I saw the other clutch on the other leaf.
Do they move them? It seems like there are only white ones left on the first spot. Either they moved them or ate them.

We have wigglers! Smokie and Goldie are now a confirmed breeding pair.
Evidently I was not a very attentive fish mommy because I obviously did not notice the eggs for a couple days. In my defense, they were originally on a leaf facing the back of the tank.
Instead of more eggs being laid, he was moving them. They are on a totally different leaf now. He is a smart daddy. Instead of picking off the white eggs, he moved the good ones leaving the white ones behind.
He is still being very vigilant and not even letting mommy near them so that is a little concerning.
What now? Do I remove them or give mom and dad a chance to raise them? I am leaning towards the latter.
Time to pull the bbs hatchery back out. How many days between wiggling and needing to be fed?? I should know this from others threads I have been following.......

So, it looks like it will be a while before getting them moved over to the 55 divided tank. Silly fish messing with my plans and schedule, lol.

Still wiggling wiggling wiggling away.
Both mom and dad were tending them when I checked this morning.

 

YAY!!! CONGRATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How exciting!!

I knew something was off about what you were describing!!

Yep, my angel parents always start out removing the white eggs. But then as the good eggs hatch (anywhere from 48-72 hours) they will move them to a new location and stop worrying about the white eggs. This is why it was so annoying to see my pearlscale pair cleaning off the new location last night....only to pick away at the eggs overnight! (and I left the light on overnight for the record)

Interesting that dad is doing the caretaking. In my experience it is usually mom.....You know for sure that's dad? Did you see them spawn?

 

Congratulations on your angel being gravid with eggs!

 

Congratulations on your angel being gravid with eggs!

Gravid means she is carrying eggs. She's already laid her eggs and they've hatched that's even better!

 

Now I am trying to remember from the first batch if I actually saw her laying eggs. I did not catch them this time. Not 100% sure, but I think I remember her laying eggs then.....

Remind me when you start feeding bbs and about how long after wiggling starts do I have to get the hatchery cranking out some please.