Tank giving betta fin rot

Hi! I am new to the aquarium world so please bear with me. My male betta Sylvester has what I think is fin rot and I need help figuring out how to help him. He is currently on day 3 of an aquarium salt treatment in a heated quarantine tank (1 gallon with 1 teaspoon of aquarium salt and 2 ml of API Stresscoat water conditioner, water changed daily). While he has been in the salt treatment, the fin rot has not increased but has not healed yet either. After the first day of treatment, he did not seem his usual energetic self and just stayed at the bottom of the tank. I panicked and was afraid something about the treatment was harming him so I put him back into the big tank (5 gallon Marineland portrait tank with lots of love plants, heater and filter). I had just done a 50% water change the day before and tested the water. Nitrite 0, nitrate 0, ammonia 0, pH 7.6 which is the pH of my tap water. So as far as I can tell, the water parameters are ok with the exception of the ph, which I read should be as close to 7.0 as possible. But I also read that most fish will adapt to a ph this high and it is preferable to messing with it to try to lower it artificially. At any rate, overnight back in the 5 gallon tank, another portion of Sylvester’s tail developed a hole with yellowish fuzz and fell off by the afternoon of the next day. I then decided that I need to put him back in the quarantine tank with the salt treatment until I can figure out what about the big tank is making his fins rot. Any insight would be appreciated. Sylvester looks so sad and is so lethargic in his 1 gallon quarantine tank and I would like to get him back in his home as soon as possible, but am afraid that he will just get sick again if I don’t fix whatever is making him sick in the big tank.

More information:
I have a 5 gallon Marineland portrait tank that I planted and performed fishless cycling on as a hands-on lesson with my kids of the Nitrogen cycle in action. We tested the water every day and tracked the rise and zeroing out of the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate levels until we believed the tank was finally cycled. We then added 2 nerite snails to help clean the algae. A week later, we purchased Sylvester and put him in his new home. He seemed to love his big planted tank, was actively exploring the whole tank, and seemed happy and healthy. A couple of weeks later we added 2 Amano shrimps to help with tank cleaning. Sylvester seems to get along with his tank mates. At first he stalked and chased the smaller Amano but they stayed fairly hidden and out of his way most of the time. Now he just ignores them.

Attached are pictures of the tank and of Sylvester in his quarantine tank, if that helps. Thank you in advance!

 

The fins look fine to me; more pictures would be helpful.

 

Agreed on more pictures, not entirely sure its fin rot. And the 1 gallon tank might be stressing him out more than helping.

 

I have included more pictures of Sylvester in his tank at the onset of the fin problem. I don’t know if they will help. Sorry! It is really hard to capture in photos but if you enlarge the pictures you might be able to see a sulfur-like substance at the bottom of his analfin where it was starting to deteriorate and fray. Also, there was a pinprick sized hole at the top of his dorsal fin which later enlarged and became frayed. The sulfur-like substance went away in the salt bath but the fraying and damage remained. I think it was early stages of fin rot, but I did not want it to progress any further.

I have also included a picture of when we first got him (last picture). His tail was not frayed at all and coloring was much more vibrant.

Also in the tank are 3 small almond leaves, a Wondershell for calcium for the shrimps, and 4 Tourmaline minerals ball. Is this too much mineral for bettas?

Thank you for your help!

 

I agree that the QT tank may be doing harm than good. I would recommend putting him back in the 5 gallon and continuing to do water changes. I had a betta with fin rot once and almost daily water changes cleared it up in a few weeks. Awesome looking tank btw

 

Agree with above! A smaller, bare QT is probably causing him more stress. I have a hard time seeing the fin rot as well.

 

Stunning tank, and Sylvester too! I agree with @bobettasinbowls about hard time seeing fin rot, but he has lost some color, perhaps because of being in QT tank? And if you have more almond leaves, perhaps adding bit more of them so they tint water, specially if you do daily water changes should also help nicely.

 

Thank you for your advice and feedback everyone. I will do a 25% water change today and put Sylvester back in the tank. I will also add a few more almond leaves and do daily 25% water changes and see how it goes. I will provide an update in about a week. Thank you again for your help!

 

Thank you for your advice and feedback everyone. I will do a 25% water change today and put Sylvester back in the tank. I will also add a few more almond leaves and do daily 25% water changes and see how it goes. I will provide an update in about a week. Thank you again for your help!

Also, keep in mind depending on the plants in there you could do a low dose Aquarium salt treatment IN the 5 gallon planted tank. Most plants will tolerate it for a short period. Can always check online for full lists of those plants, but usually the softer ones (like Wisteria) have a harder time with it.

Gentle way to treat the fish though. And easier to remove a couple of sensitive plants to a qt tank than the fish.

(Beautiful Boy by the way!)

 

Thank you Addictedtobetta! I will keep the in-tank salt treatment in mind. I have anubias, narrow leaf java fern, java moss, which I have read should do fine in salt. I would probably need to remove the Ludwigia, cryptocoryne wendtii, and El Niño fern as I cannot find anything that definitively says it is salt-tolerant.

I added Sylvester back into his tank tonight after a water change. He already looks much happier and is swimming around hunting copepods as opposed to sitting sadly at the bottom of the QT tank. . I’ll do daily water changes. Hopefully more of his fins will not fall off and he will start healing. Another question regarding thedaily water changes: How will I know when I can switch to weekly changes?

 

Thank you Addictedtobetta! I will keep the in-tank salt treatment in mind. I have anubias, narrow leaf java fern, java moss, which I have read should do fine in salt. I would probably need to remove the Ludwigia, cryptocoryne wendtii, and El Niño fern as I cannot find anything that definitively says it is salt-tolerant.

I added Sylvester back into his tank tonight after a water change. He already looks much happier and is swimming around hunting copepods as opposed to sitting sadly at the bottom of the QT tank. . I’ll do daily water changes. Hopefully more of his fins will not fall off and he will start healing. Another question regarding thedaily water changes: How will I know when I can switch to weekly changes?

I personally prefer 30-40% (ish) wc every 2 days for the fish that are showing signs of stress as well.
Orion, whom I got with a case of fin nip and rot, is disturbed by any change in his tank and WC is one of them - so I'd do every other day.
My female Betta, Nut (and the other male), don't seem to care what I do in their tanks as long as they get to take part so.. maybe a 50% every other day, or 25% every day if it was a bad situation.
I'd go to 2 weeks at least and see how they're doing along the way, with stress and whatever ails them.

Crypts have so far been ok with the salt, but definitely would take anything out you aren't sure of. Some plants that claim stability in salt treatments are the first ones to go for me, without salt even.

Even if you have to get them to a hospital tank, making it as.. homey? as possible can help (silk plants, plenty of hiding spots, etc). But leaving their home is always a stressor. I hate to move and I know why I'm moving! They don't have a clue.

 

Just a little over 12 hours back in his tank and Sylvester already has new fin deterioration in his dorsal fin and analfin. Something in the water is definitely causing it. There are no sharp or rough objects in the tank. It’s very frustrating and distressing to not know what the problem is. . Should I continue on course with him in the tank and daily 25% water changes and hope it improves at some point?

 

Is there any chance he's catching it on something in the tank? such as the driftwood?

That's such an odd puncture looking hole.

How is his behavior?

 

I agree that the pinpoint holes that he gets are very strange. They enlarge very rapidly and become splits or seemingly disintegrate until portions of the fin fall off. I carefully checked the large piece of driftwood and it is smooth, no rough or sharp edges. All the other few decorations are smooth as well.

His behavior is back to normal - active, feisty, curious, and happy. He even jumped a little above the surface of the water tonight when I was too slow at dropping his food pellets in for his liking. Cute little guy!

I did come across an old post on Fishlore by a lady with the same tank as mine whose betta also developed pinpoint holes on his fins. She experienced the same thing I noticed where the water in the narrow back chamber that houses the hidden filter pump, filter cartridge, and cartridge housing is pretty stagnant and very dirty and there is no way to clean it properly. Whenever I change the water, some of the gunk from the back chamber floats out into the tank since I turn the filter and heater off temporarily when I change the water. Anyway, all that to say that maybe the water in the tank as a whole is getting dirty quickly because the water in the back chamber is so filthy. Also, I was thinking back to when I first noticed the tiny holes in his fin and I think it was after I did a big water change and also changed the blue carbon filter cartridge because it was so dirty. Maybe I inadvertently got rid of too many beneficial bacteria? I added SafeStart Plus to the tank after the water change tonight to add back the beneficial bacteria and will do so after each water change. Following advice from the same old post, will replace the blue carbon filter with a Purigen filter bag to increase surface area for the BB to grow. Keeping my fingers crossed that I will stumble upon a way to get his fins healthy.

Sorry the response is so long! Thank you for checking in on Sylvester.

 

I agree that the pinpoint holes that he gets are very strange. They enlarge very rapidly and become splits or seemingly disintegrate until portions of the fin fall off. I carefully checked the large piece of driftwood and it is smooth, no rough or sharp edges. All the other few decorations are smooth as well.

His behavior is back to normal - active, feisty, curious, and happy. He even jumped a little above the surface of the water tonight when I was too slow at dropping his food pellets in for his liking. Cute little guy!

I did come across an old post on Fishlore by a lady with the same tank as mine whose betta also developed pinpoint holes on his fins. She experienced the same thing I noticed where the water in the narrow back chamber that houses the hidden filter pump, filter cartridge, and cartridge housing is pretty stagnant and very dirty and there is no way to clean it properly. Whenever I change the water, some of the gunk from the back chamber floats out into the tank since I turn the filter and heater off temporarily when I change the water. Anyway, all that to say that maybe the water in the tank as a whole is getting dirty quickly because the water in the back chamber is so filthy. Also, I was thinking back to when I first noticed the tiny holes in his fin and I think it was after I did a big water change and also changed the blue carbon filter cartridge because it was so dirty. Maybe I inadvertently got rid of too many beneficial bacteria? I added SafeStart Plus to the tank after the water change tonight to add back the beneficial bacteria and will do so after each water change. Following advice from the same old post, will replace the blue carbon filter with a Purigen filter bag to increase surface area for the BB to grow. Keeping my fingers crossed that I will stumble upon a way to get his fins healthy.

Sorry the response is so long! Thank you for checking in on Sylvester.

Ahh, a fluval I presume? That is my biggest complaint in the ones I have, getting in to that cavity is not easy and it's amazing what lurks in there (as I said in another thread one of my amano's went missing back there).

Since Sylvester is acting 'better' in that tank it seems like treating it from there if you can is the best bet.
Keep us posted, I'm curious how it goes and hopeful it will improve!

 

Sylvester’s fins are much worse today. All of his fins are severely tattered and torn. His behavior is still normal. This is the third day back in his tank with daily water changes. Water parameters before the change tonight: ph 7.6, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate 0.

Another possibility to consider is whether one of my two amano shrimps is attacking Sylvester. Tonight when I put the long tweezer in the tank to remove a dead leaf, the amano we aptly names Tiger Bully attacked the tweezer and nipped at it. It is definitely the jerk of the tank and I have seen it chase and attack the other amano shrimp. It has long pincers and look nothing like my other peaceful amano Diamond.
Could this be the problem with Sylvester’s fins?? My kids and I are not fans of Tiger because he’s been a bully from the start so I would have no problems taking him back to the pet store and asking them to adopt him if he is indeed the problem. I may just do that tomorrow anyway just to rule it out.
Attached is Sylvester today. Do you see signs of fin rot yet or does it look more like physical tearing? Also attached are pictures of Tiger Bully and his big pincers. He will be rehomed back to the pet store tomorrow.

 

Honestly I don’t know shrimp very well but that doesn’t look like an amano.
a similar shrimp I found online called: macrobrachium shrimp
They will eat and attack fish.
Supposedly some folks have seen their mellow shrimp chase sick fish, so even amano could be attacking I guess.

but I’d take the shrimp out asap.

maybe it’s attacking and causing stress which could lead to so much else.
Looks a little strange on the fins too.

for reference this is my amano

 

That shrimp was the problem all along!! I felt really uneasy about leaving Tiger Bully in the tank after I posted and did decide to take him out right away. There were no new tears or holes on Sylvester today and the smaller holes in his fins actually look like they are starting to close! Is that possible for it to heal so quickly or is it my imagination? I will continue with 25-30% water changes every other day for a couple of weeks to keep the water as clean as possible to avoid fin rot at the tears and so that he can heal. I wish I had thought about the possibility that Tiger was attacking Sylvester much earlier. Hopefully his fins will fully regenerate.

Our Diamond looks exactly like your shrimp, so she(?) must be a real amano. Thanks for sharing your picture!

Moral of this story is to try to do as much research as possible because although the employees of pet stores mean well, their knowledge may be limited or incorrect. Don’t assume you’re buying an amano just because it’s labeled that way or because the pet store employee tells you that it is a male amano. When I brought the shrimp back to the store today and explained the situation, the nice lady there was sympathetic and took the shrimp in, but she said, “It looks like it might be a bamboo shrimp.” I shared the information you provided with her so that she would know.

Thank you for sticking with me through this!! Hopefully this post will help someone else who unknowingly buys a macrobrachium lanchesterI as a tank mate for a betta or other shrimp.

 

That shrimp was the problem all along!! I felt really uneasy about leaving Tiger Bully in the tank after I posted and did decide to take him out right away. There were no new tears or holes on Sylvester today and the smaller holes in his fins actually look like they are starting to close! Is that possible for it to heal so quickly or is it my imagination? I will continue with 25-30% water changes every other day for a couple of weeks to keep the water as clean as possible to avoid fin rot at the tears and so that he can heal. I wish I had thought about the possibility that Tiger was attacking Sylvester much earlier. Hopefully his fins will fully regenerate.

Our Diamond looks exactly like your shrimp, so she(?) must be a real amano. Thanks for sharing your picture!

Moral of this story is to try to do as much research as possible because although the employees of pet stores mean well, their knowledge may be limited or incorrect. Don’t assume you’re buying an amano just because it’s labeled that way or because the pet store employee tells you that it is a male amano. When I brought the shrimp back to the store today and explained the situation, the nice lady there was sympathetic and took the shrimp in, but she said, “It looks like it might be a bamboo shrimp.” I shared the information you provided with her so that she would know.

Thank you for sticking with me through this!! Hopefully this post will help someone else who unknowingly buys a macrobrachium lanchesterI as a tank mate for a betta or other shrimp.

I spent a lot of time reading up on shrimp that were 'caught' attacking the fish in their tanks, and I learned a lot! Plus I spent some time checking out every single one of my shrimp when I could find them today.

I'm so happy you were able to figure out what was going on. There were a few other folks around the internet that mentioned nighttime attacks on their bettas from poorly marked shrimp. At least you got yours out before it got worse.

I think their fins have incredible regenerative abilities, so I wouldn't be surprised if you're seeing a bit of that already.

If it continues to look better, as it should, you might cut back the water changes to ever 3 days or so. Give him a chance to destress in his digs. Sans one nasty roommate.

(Another poster commented that it looked like a tiger shrimp - but in the end it doesn't matter as long as your Sylvester is in a better situation, and others avoid the same issue down the line!)