Tank Cycling With Fish - First Readings (day 4)

HI all -
I just got my API test kit...here are my first readings:
PH: 7.2 (Too high?)
Ammonia: Between 0 - 0.25 (Slightest hint of orange)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 ppm

This is day 4, so I'm guessing the cycle is just starting, so the question is, why am I getting Nitrates?

Tank is 48 gallon with 2 corys and 4 platys -

Thanks,
James

 

Ph 7.2 if definitely not too high.

Do you have nitrates in your tap water?

 

I tested my water - no nitrates? I did the "vigorous shaking" required on the test kit both times, so I'm pretty sure they are accurate readings. Is there a reason that Nitrates would be at 5 without going through the cycle yet?

 

Did you use any cycled media from another tank? It may be converting a small amount of ammonia to nitrates but not enough to lower the ammonia.

 

What's the ammonia like in your tap water?

It doesn't take a lot of ammonia to produce 5 ppm nitrate: about 1.37 ppm ammonia.

There's always the presence of ammonia-oxidising and nitrite-oxidising bacteria, so it shouldn't surprise people when they see nitrites/nitrates after a few days (especially if they use a bottled bacteria product).

 

I didn't use any chemicals of any kind - one thing I can think of is the tank was used. I have the biowheel that was in the old tank, so I guess its possible that the last tank's nitrates are there? I was assuming it was a good thing to have the biowheels from the last tank, but maybe not?
James

 

I didn't use any chemicals of any kind - one thing I can think of is the tank was used. I have the biowheel that was in the old tank, so I guess its possible that the last tank's nitrates are there? I was assuming it was a good thing to have the biowheels from the last tank, but maybe not?
James

Yes it would be a good thing (as long as the previous inhabitants were not carrying disease) as that would kick start the cycle. If you wait a few more days then the ammonia should disappear and your nitrate should get higher before also dissappearing and turning to nitrite.

 

HI all -
I just got my API test kit...here are my first readings:
PH: 7.2 (Too high?)
Ammonia: Between 0 - 0.25 (Slightest hint of orange)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 ppm

This is day 4, so I'm guessing the cycle is just starting, so the question is, why am I getting Nitrates?

Tank is 48 gallon with 2 corys and 4 platys -

Thanks,
James

Hello James...

Your water pH is near perfect.

I would test the water daily for traces of ammonia and nitrite. Remember to feed the fish a little every day or two to keep the ammonia source steady. If you have a positive test for either of these forms of nitrogen, remove and replace 25 percent of the tank water. Don't remove more or you can starve the bacteria colony you're growing. Just test and change out the water when necessary. In a month or so, you'll start getting several tests with no trace of ammonia or nitrite. At this point, the tank is cycled. Then, you simply change half the water weekly to maintain good water conditions.

Old

 

Also, I did buy some 'Prime' so if the ammonia gets more than 1.0 ppm I will follow the suggestions made to add Prime to help the fish Thanks all for your advice!

 

I didn't use any chemicals of any kind - one thing I can think of is the tank was used. I have the biowheel that was in the old tank, so I guess its possible that the last tank's nitrates are there? I was assuming it was a good thing to have the biowheels from the last tank, but maybe not?
James

I am not sure you have previously mentioned this but by using an already seeded bio-wheel your cycle should be quick if not almost instant. It is possible that you will never see nitrites and your ammonia should drop to zero pretty quickly. If I am understanding you correctly and this tank was used and you got it and a cycled filter then I am thinking this is just a mini-cycle not a full blown start from scratch cycle.

with as few fish as you have and by having already cycled media it would surprise me to see your ammonia going any higher than it is right now. It is good that you now have prime. It will protect your fish.

 

I am not sure you have previously mentioned this but by using an already seeded bio-wheel your cycle should be quick if not almost instant. It is possible that you will never see nitrites and your ammonia should drop to zero pretty quickly. If I am understanding you correctly and this tank was used and you got it and a cycled filter then I am thinking this is just a mini-cycle not a full blown start from scratch cycle.

with as few fish as you have and by having already cycled media it would surprise me to see your ammonia going any higher than it is right now. It is good that you now have prime. It will protect your fish.

Wow - that's great news. To be honest, I didn't know the previous owner...When I purchased the tank, it was already cleaned, and there was no "gunk" on the biowheels, so I'm assuming they were likely at least rinsed off, but they were definitely used in his tank. I have the guys contact info, maybe I should contact him.

James

 

You could call him but you can also let your numbers guide you. I am thinking the reason you are already seeing nitrates is because that bio-wheel already had the bacteria needed to convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.

I am learning that the bacteria can survive some adverse conditions and instead of dying some of it seems to go dormant. It is very possible that the bacteria on that bio-wheel was just dormant and is now in the process of reproducing. Once it grows enough it will process that low amount of ammonia straight to nitrates and you will soon start seeing no ammonia and possible never see nitrites. The ammonia and nitrites are still there but are being process too quickly to be detected by the tests available to us.

 

i'm on day 9 or 10,

ammonia 2.0-4.0
nitrite 2.0-5.0
nitrate 40-80

tank only has plants

 

You could call him but you can also let your numbers guide you. I am thinking the reason you are already seeing nitrates is because that bio-wheel already had the bacteria needed to convert ammonia to nitrite to nitrate.

I am learning that the bacteria can survive some adverse conditions and instead of dying some of it seems to go dormant. It is very possible that the bacteria on that bio-wheel was just dormant and is now in the process of reproducing. Once it grows enough it will process that low amount of ammonia straight to nitrates and you will soon start seeing no ammonia and possible never see nitrites. The ammonia and nitrites are still there but are being process too quickly to be detected by the tests available to us.

Wow - even if it was rinsed or washed, the bacteria could still be there? I will test tonight and post on this thread to see any updates.

Thanks!

James

 

Wow - even if it was rinsed or washed, the bacteria could still be there? I will test tonight and post on this thread to see any updates.

Thanks!

James

That does seem to be the case. If done correctly media can be washed without killing the bacteria. It is some fairly tough stuff. High levels of chlorine can be detrimental to it but just washing in fresh dechlorinated water if one has chlorine in their water or with water removed from ones tank will not hurt the bacteria.

 

Great news - he just rinsed them with water, so hopefully the tank is in good shape - I'll test tonight. How long should I wait before adding any new fish? A few days? A week?

 

Great news - he just rinsed them with water, so hopefully the tank is in good shape - I'll test tonight. How long should I wait before adding any new fish? A few days? A week?

That is good news. I would wait until you are no longer seeing any ammonia and the nitrates are rising. That will tell you that there is enough bacteria to process the ammonia the fish you already have in there are producing. Then add a few at a time to allow the bacteria to catch up after each addition.

 

I will post pics of my day 5 readings. The colors are very subjective to me. If I just hold up the ammonia it looks like either 0 or a HINT of 0.25 - I think it looks darker in the picture. The Nitrites look like 0 and the Nitrates look like 5. If the tank IS cycled, wouldn't the ammonia be at 0 if the Nitrates were that high?

 

If the tank IS cycled, wouldn't the ammonia be at 0 if the Nitrates were that high?

Not necessarily. 5 nitrate isn't high at all, it can be considered quite low. People routinely accumulate 20-40 nitrate at the end of a week prior to a water change.

But your ammonia reading looks like a 0 to me.

While fish-in cycles are just as viable fishless cycles, I think it needs to be said that it's more challenging monitoring daily changes in ammonia/nitrite/nitrate when fish-in cycling as you're dealing with (generally) far smaller concentrations.

Individual fish generally excrete very little ammonia on a daily basis. For example, one study (Tal, Nussinovitch & van Rijn (2003)) determined that the goldfish in their experiment excreted ~0.07 mg ammonia per gram of body mass per day. While there's a lot of ifs and buts, we can take that as a very rough guide for what your 6 fish might be producing. Assuming that their total biomass is 10 grams and they're fed daily, they could be producing 0.7 mg of ammonia per day. In a 48 gallon tank, that's a concentration of 0.00385 mg/L ammonia (ppm) per day.

That's an essentially undetectable level of ammonia using the API test kit. This becomes a problem in fish-in cycling as it's almost impossible to make accurate inferences on how your cycle is doing based on daily increases/decreases of ammonia (and nitrite/nitrate) that are so small as to be undetectable by the API test kit.

What you need to do is monitor long-term changes in ammonia/nitrite/nitrate: contrast and compare readings over the period of a month to examine patterns of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

 

Not necessarily. 5 nitrate isn't high at all, it can be considered quite low. People routinely accumulate 20-40 nitrate at the end of a week prior to a water change.

But your ammonia reading looks like a 0 to me.

While fish-in cycles are just as viable fishless cycles, I think it needs to be said that it's more challenging monitoring daily changes in ammonia/nitrite/nitrate when fish-in cycling as you're dealing with (generally) far smaller concentrations.

Individual fish generally excrete very little ammonia on a daily basis. For example, one study (Tal, Nussinovitch & van Rijn (2003)) determined that the goldfish in their experiment excreted ~0.07 mg ammonia per gram of body mass per day. While there's a lot of ifs and buts, we can take that as a very rough guide for what your 6 fish might be producing. Assuming that their total biomass is 10 grams and they're fed daily, they could be producing 0.7 mg of ammonia per day. In a 48 gallon tank, that's a concentration of 0.00385 mg/L ammonia (ppm) per day.

That's an essentially undetectable level of ammonia using the API test kit. This becomes a problem in fish-in cycling as it's almost impossible to make accurate inferences on how your cycle is doing based on daily increases/decreases of ammonia (and nitrite/nitrate) that are so small as to be undetectable by the API test kit.

What you need to do is monitor long-term changes in ammonia/nitrite/nitrate: contrast and compare readings over the period of a month to examine patterns of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate.

Someone posed that I may have already cycled because I likely have beneficial bacteria from the biowheels from the previous owner of the tank (Who confirmed he just rinsed them off and didn't do any kind of cleaning of them). How long would you suggest to wait to assume the cycle is done? If no ammonia after another few days? Another week?

 

Another week?

Oops, I should've read the other posts before I made my own! If there's a filter with established bacteria biofilm on it, I'd monitor your parameters over a week.

Test ammonia/nitrite daily, and nitrate every other day. If ammonia/nitrite hover between 0-0.25 pm and nitrate is stable, then I'd assume the cycle is complete.

 

Thanks - I'll keep posting here - I'm guessing it's looking good so far (Crossing fingers).

James

 

Actually the ammonia looks like zero to me but it is hard to tell on a computer screen. I would keep monitoring for at least another week before adding any more fish. I really do think you are very very close to cycled. Those nitrites rising and falling so quickly tells me that there was enough viable bacteria on that filter media to jump start this cycle. What you experienced was a minI cycle and they usually only last a few days.

 

Awesome - I'll provide an update tomorrow night - Just ammonia okay, or do you need all 3? I believe I was advised Ammonia and Nitrites every day, Nitrates every other?

Actually the ammonia looks like zero to me but it is hard to tell on a computer screen. I would keep monitoring for at least another week before adding any more fish. I really do think you are very very close to cycled. Those nitrites rising and falling so quickly tells me that there was enough viable bacteria on that filter media to jump start this cycle. What you experienced was a minI cycle and they usually only last a few days.

 

I would do all 3 tomorrow. If your nitrites still read o tomorrow you can stop testing for it for now so after tomorrow just ammonia and nitrates. You may want to check you PH tomorrow too just to be sure it is holding steady.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing that there is no cycle required - keeping fingers crossed. Good night! I'll post in this same thread tomorrow evening.

James

 

I'm looking forward to seeing that there is no cycle required - keeping fingers crossed. Good night! I'll post in this same thread tomorrow evening.

James

Good Night

 

James...

When a new tank has been instantly cycled with media from an established tank, you introduce a few, small fish and test the tank water frequently to make sure the bacteria is working to remove the ammonia and nitrite from the water. If you have a positive test for either, you remove 25 percent of the water and replace it. You keep testing and change the water when needed. When you have several daily tests with no traces of ammonia or nitrite, the tank is established and you can add a few more fish and test the water as before. Follow these steps until the tank is fully stocked.

Old

 

Day 6 Readings: Bad note - there is definitely some ammonia - 0.25 - maybe up to 0.50 (Although I think the pic is a bit darker than real life). I thought there may have been a hint yesterday, but it was definitely not yellow. Not a lot, but some ammonia. Nitrites still 0, and Nitrates still there. I guess two options: 1) The tank is cycled (Based on using biowheels from past owner), and because I've yet to do a water change there is some ammonia, or 2) The tank is actually not cycled and we are just beginning the cycle. If that's the case, wouldn't nitrates ALSO be 0? ALSO - pH is still 7.0 - I just didn't take a picture.

Would love to hear advice - thanks for all that have participated so far! See pics below! (P.S. - I was hoping to get a few new fish tomorrow - i'm guessing that's a no?)

James

 

Did you test your tap water for nitrates? Since your ammonia seems to be rising, it would seem your cycle is just beginning.

 

This is day 6 - It was discovered two days ago that I was using biowheels (4 of them) from the previous owner's tanks. That was the thought on why the nitrate's are elevated. I DID test the tap water and it read 0. The guess from many that the cycle is complete, or it's some type of modified cycle that will be quick due to the beneficial bacteria. I haven't had Nitrites yet, Nitrates have always been around 5ppm, and for the first time today the ammonia was 0.25. Again, my thought was maybe because I've had fish in for 6 days but haevn't done a water change (Waiting to see what would happen). Feel free to read back to see previous readings of day 4/5.

Thanks,

James

 

If the tank is cycled, the ammonia level will never rise above 0ppm whether you perform a water change or not. The whole purpose of cycling a tank is so that ammonia and nitrite are always at 0ppm. The water changes are performed to remove the nitrates that start to build up.

 

You're reading 0.25 on the ammonia right? I almost feel I'm going blind on these tests trying to tell what the reading actually is

If there is a trace amount, that means what? That there is beneficial bacteria, but it will still have to go through the whole cycle?

 

Well, first off every monitor shows color a little differently, but if that's not bad enough...I'm color blind. But too me, the color liked like maybe .5ppm or maybe a bit higher.

You may have some bacteria, but just not enough to handle the amount of ammonia being produced, or you may have none. Really only time will tell. If your ammonia keeps rising, it could mean you have very little to no bacteria. But if you have a decent amount of bacteria, it could just be a mini-cycle, which should be short lived.

But what you should be doing now is the following:
Test ammonia and nitrite daily
If ammonia+nitrite<1ppm add enough Prime to treat entire tank volume.
If ammonia+nitrute > or = 1ppm do a 50% water change using enough Prime to treat entire tank volume.

Keep this up until ammonia is 0ppm and nitrites are 0ppm and you have some more nitrates.

 

So no water change right now? After 6 days with fish, the water level is a bit low - am I okay to add a gallon of water with prime , and add extra to treat the ammonia? Or...should I pull some water out and vacuum as well?

 

I think you'd be fine just topping off the tank. You really don't need to start worrying about performing a water change until your nitrates get to 20ppm. But when you top off, just put enough Prime in the water to treat the whole tank, not just the water you are adding.

 

Help Requested:
This is day 7 of fish. Today's readings: Ammonia: 0.25, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5ppm (Same as yesterday). I added prime and about 2 gallons of water to top off the tank about 2 hours ago (Not sure how long the prime should take to work).

BUT

The fish are acting funny - which to me is a sign that something is wrong. I posted this morning that one looks like he was nipped at all night, or finrot - Here is the link: Help With Fish Issue - Sick/injured?

My albino cory is NON-STOP just back and forth like he's stressed, and the others are extra active. The one that looks beat up was super aggressive during feeding this morning - chasing, headbutting (Not sure if he was nipping, but certainly aggressive to anyone who came near him), and they all seem more active.

Not sure what I should do. The ammonia is a LITTLE elevated (but was yesterday as well) and I have added Prime. I'm not sure what I should do???

Please advise...thanks all! It's great to get the beneficial knowledge of the community.

James

 

I'm a little stumped. By using Prime and your low ammonia level, all of the ammonia should be detoxed. I believe the Prime will start detoxing ammonia right away. So I really can think of anything that would cause that behavior.

 

Help Requested:
This is day 7 of fish. Today's readings: Ammonia: 0.25, Nitrites 0, Nitrates 5ppm (Same as yesterday). I added prime and about 2 gallons of water to top off the tank about 2 hours ago (Not sure how long the prime should take to work).

Prime works instantly.

BUT

The fish are acting funny - which to me is a sign that something is wrong. I posted this morning that one looks like he was nipped at all night, or finrot - Here is the link: Help With Fish Issue - Sick/injured?

My albino cory is NON-STOP just back and forth like he's stressed, and the others are extra active. The one that looks beat up was super aggressive during feeding this morning - chasing, headbutting (Not sure if he was nipping, but certainly aggressive to anyone who came near him), and they all seem more active.

Not sure what I should do. The ammonia is a LITTLE elevated (but was yesterday as well) and I have added Prime. I'm not sure what I should do???

Please advise...thanks all! It's great to get the beneficial knowledge of the community.

James

Right now my advice is, relax. There are going to be ups and downs during the cycling process be it a full blown cycle or a minI cycle and it is going to take time. When we are worried every little thing that happens seems like it is the end of the world.

It is possible that your Cory is acting like that because there are only 2 of them. They are a lot more relaxed when they have more friends. Glass surfing is normal when they feel uncomfortable and this one could be uncomfortable without a bunch of friends.

I would go ahead and do a water change of at least 30% and add enough Prime to treat the whole tank. I wouldn't depend on Prime binding the ammonia for more than 3 or 4 days while going through even a minI cycle. It will continue instantly doing its job but in my humble opinion there is nothing better than fresh water with Prime added to bind the ammonia. In other words, Prime each day as long as you are seeing ammonia but then a water change with Prime ever 3rd or 4th day.

 

Thanks Mattgirl -
I probably seem overbearing - I'll cool it.

On a positive note, I just added some live plants to the setup, so hopefully that will help the situation. It was only 30 minutes ago, but the fish seem so excited

I'll update only if things change or get worse

James