Tail fin has split is this fin rot?

Pics before and after - the black/grey streak along the top of the caudal fin has always been there but his beautiful veil tail now has a split, almost to half way .... also the edging seems paler.. It's so hard to tell because of his pigment.. . And to be honest I had to go through my photos to confirm whether he always had a split or not, but I'm certain this is new. As of today. Unsure if this looks like the beginning of fin rot? Or an injury as if he's been snagged on something, biting himself or maybe being nipped by the relatively new harlequin rasboras? Hoping it's a weird developmental thing that bettas do sometimes but does anyone know?

The base of his tail looks red too like it's sore, but then in a different light you can't see it at all, and it's always been a bit like that so I can't be sure if it's his transparency/colouring ... eeek. Halp.

 

Mostly likely the fin has torn after catching on something in the aquarium. Are there any sharp rocks/wood edges? Should repair itself if you keep the water pristine.

 

I would say that he either tore it or he nipped it cause he’s bored. It should heal up in a few days

 

Eeek poor little guy, though I guess that's better than his body rotting. I did a little water change and used API Stress Coat/dechlorinator. Should I pop another indian almond leaf* in there do you reckon?

 

Eeek poor little guy, though I guess that's better than his body rotting. I did a little water change and used API Stress Coat/dechlorinator. Should I pop another indian almond leaf* in there do you reckon?

IAL are always a good idea! I say go for it!

 

Thanks - done!

Sooooo someone in another forum suggested he could be a juvenile double fin. I thought I'd call the shop and ask, but checked through my pics and they indeed have him marked down as "double ray" - Google talks about double ray crowntails, but he's obviously not a CT, sooooo maybe they mean double FIN and this is a normal healthy thing for him!?? I will call the shop today and ask anyways but. I am having a sneaky sense of hope that I won't have to have him out in quarantine/be spending my last weekend at home before I go away for a week hauling everyone out and scrubbing down the tank with bleach as I feared I might have to last night lol. Pic of him on hold waiting for me in the shop, and pic of his new home, just to share the good feelings around

 

Looks like he’s not a great example of a double tail betta. Maybe his parents were a veiltail and double tail? At first glance he looks like a veil tail.

 

Update - my harlequin rasboras are having trouble now too, one is half covered in mucus and one has white edging on her dorsal fin. I ended up calling the place I got everyone from, who asked me to bring in a video which I did, and they asked me a few questions and their opinion was, everyone in my tank is completely stressed because I am a) feeding too much high nutrient food, causing excess waste and b) cleaning and changing the water too much, causing too many changes in the environment. Have also been extra paranoid about ammonia and having a clean tank before I leave them all for a week on Monday. They said everyone should recover if I can basically stop killing them with love, no meds but reduce feeding to every second day and reduce cleaning to weekly. So. See how we go.

 

Update - my harlequin rasboras are having trouble now too, one is half covered in mucus and one has white edging on her dorsal fin. I ended up calling the place I got everyone from, who asked me to bring in a video which I did, and they asked me a few questions and their opinion was, everyone in my tank is completely stressed because I am a) feeding too much high nutrient food, causing excess waste and b) cleaning and changing the water too much, causing too many changes in the environment. Have also been extra paranoid about ammonia and having a clean tank before I leave them all for a week on Monday. They said everyone should recover if I can basically stop killing them with love, no meds but reduce feeding to every second day and reduce cleaning to weekly. So. See how we go.

I wouldn’t listen to their advice any more. It sounds like columnaris. I’ve only dealt with it once so maybe BettaFishObsessed could chime in?

 

I’m here!
I wouldn’t listen to the pet store. Unless you’re literally dumping a whole can of flakes or doing a 70% water change every day, then you are not doing anything wrong. Fishtanks do need daily maintenance (see: maintenance ≠ water changes). Also I recommend feeding fish every other day or 6 days a week anyway, but that is besides the point and if you don’t do that you are not overfeeding. I agree that it may be columnaris, and/or possibly fin rot. If it is columnaris then you should clean the tank a little less since it thrives in oxygenated, too-clean tanks.

 

The more you change water it will harm your betta. I only use 4x8x6 betta tank i only water change and siphon 20-30% of the water to remove the poops in every 3-4 days. In your case you are using a BIG Tank u can water change once a week coz u have a plenty plants and try adding IAL or Banana Leaves or Guava Leaves it helps to condition your betta.

 

The more you change water it will harm your betta. I only use 4x8x6 betta tank i only water change and siphon 20-30% of the water to remove the poops in every 3-4 days. In your case you are using a BIG Tank u can water change once a week coz u have a plenty plants and try adding IAL or Banana Leaves or Guava Leaves it helps to condition your betta.

That's completely false. Why do you think frequent water changes will harm a betta?

 

The more you change water it will harm your betta. I only use 4x8x6 betta tank i only water change and siphon 20-30% of the water to remove the poops in every 3-4 days. In your case you are using a BIG Tank u can water change once a week coz u have a plenty plants and try adding IAL or Banana Leaves or Guava Leaves it helps to condition your betta.

No harm is being done by doing water changes. Also are you saying you only keep your bettas in 4x8x6 inch. Containers? If so, you really should upgrade.

 

Unfortunately I am going away tomorrow for a week - I cant ask the cat sitter, who is feeding the fish and checking the equipment etc, to have to dose meds and perform water changes and get out the testing kit etc so will go with fish shop guys advice for now because it's my only practical option.

I have been cleaning a lot more recently due to an ammonia spike since adding the harlequins, and from wanting to prevent any ammonia spikes while I am away. And to remove food on the floor etc. I've probably done four or five water changes in the last week, out of paranoia.... My betta won't eat flakes or pellets so mainly have been feeding frozen brine shrimp, which I also thought would be healthier, and with extra sprinklings of spirulina flakes, but apparently that's too high in nutrients for every day without too much poo and too much cleaning ?

Following the advice for now anyways, I did make him look at the video twice, hopefully they're all alive when I get back ‍♀️

Ugh - my harlequin with mucus on half his body was stuck to the filter intake this morning. Still breathing and when I put him in a cup he's still trying to turn over. Thinking I'll put him in quarantine, if only to stop him from being eaten by the others. I set up a tank yesterday with filter media from the big tank, a cpl fake plants, is there anything else I should do for him? My other harlequin with white on his fin is perkier but hovering away from the group a lot, under the filter intake- should I put him into quarantine too? Maybe I can ask the cat sitter to medicate the little tank without too much worry she'll accidentally crash my whole system.

 

You said you were doing water changes to offset the ammonia spike from adding the rasboras? If you didn't quarantine them, its very likely that they could've introduced diseases into your tank. I think you'll need to treat everyone in that main tank. Can we get some pics of the harlequins? Like some others have said, it might be a bacterial infection, maybe columnaris.

ps. double ray is just a fancy term for veiltail. Your betta just ripped his fin on something sharp, now you just have to make sure it doesnt get infected. It will heal by itself.

 

I am so worried about doing that with chemicals because I'm going to be away for the next week

You said you were doing water changes to offset the ammonia spike from adding the rasboras? If you didn't quarantine them, its very likely that they could've introduced diseases into your tank. I think you'll need to treat everyone in that main tank. Can we get some pics of the harlequins? Like some others have said, it might be a bacterial infection, maybe columnaris.

ps. double ray is just a fancy term for veiltail. Your betta just ripped his fin on something sharp, now you just have to make sure it doesnt get infected. It will heal by itself.

The place I bought from is one of the most highly reputable in my city. I was confused about how much to feed them and the tank was only very newly cycled so it makes sense that the ammonia spike happened shortly after adding them. But yes no issues up until then.

 

The place I bought from is one of the most highly reputable in my city. I was confused about how much to feed them and the tank was only very newly cycled so it makes sense that the ammonia spike happened shortly after adding them. But yes no issues up until then.

Even if the fish were perfectly healthy and strong at the vendor, there could still be pathogens in the water. Transporting fish is extremely stressful, and during this time anything could happen. Sometimes you don't notice symptoms until a month later. Don't get me wrong, things turn out perfectly fine 90% of the time, but it only takes one sick fish to crash an entire display tank. It seems you got very unlucky my friend. Confirmed, that is a bacterial infection.

Its really bad timing that you have to be away. I would recommend adding just salt, but note that it kills plants.

 

The WORST timing

They do both have/had different symptoms though? Which also makes me wonder if these two were just particularly vulnerable to stress?

Either I take white tip out and put him by himself into quarantine and ask cat sitter to dose quarantine tank - with... what exactly im not sure yet? - knowing that she won't do a water change or test parameters in this unfortunately new quarantine tank.

Or I leave him in there to recover with his friends relatively undisturbed, and and risk it spreading to everybody. And either ask cat sitter to medicate, not knowing if she'll do it right and not knowing the effects and not being here to observe or change water etc etc don't.

It feels like there are no good options. What poses the least risk? My instinct is to remove white tip and ask sitter to dose quarantine tank. Or to leave him in there and let the tank rest like fish shop guy recommended. But I don't know

 

Keenamoss You're right, those two were weaker than the others. They both show symptoms of bacterial infection- "white tip" is showing fin rot, and fish secrete mucus to protect their skin.

Like everything in this hobby, it's up to you to decide if you want to take the risk or not. A tub or tank maybe 5-10gal (20-40L), that would be a good way to isolate it if you chose to do so. Sounds like you've weighed the pros and cons pretty well. You can let medication or salt sit for week without water changes no problem, I'm more worried about waste buildup.

Oh man, I keep wanting to tell you to "keep an eye on the others" but then I remember you wont be there... yeah, personally I don't like to medicate when I'm not around to watch them.

 

My "hospital tank" has been running for 24 hours, with Prime and a small part of filter sponge from the big tank. 16L so only 8ish gallons. I just added a cpl indian almond leaves to bring the ph down, our tap water is about 7.6 and the big tank is at 6.6 but I do have the chemical pH up/down to use if needed... I called the supplier again to update mucous boys situation, they said to add some aquarium salt to the big tank anyway and more regularly as my water is super soft, and this could help healing, and to get Melafix for the big tank, and quarantine white fin and melafix him as well. And clove oil for mucus boy :'(

I just picked up melafix from the closest shop which is a major chain petstore, those guys said it looked like fin rot and could spread to everybody, and to quarantine him. I wonder though if the extra stress of moving him could finish him off and I'm going to be treating both tanks the same anyway as for a week. Or could it get worse for the others with him in there? If its stress then it wouldn't make any difference? I could ask the cat sitter to dose melafix, maybe every 2nd day, when she feeds them just to be safe, as it's unlikely to have any adverse effects?

A) do I quarantine white fin while I'm away or no and b) if so, is there anything else I can do to improve his prospects in the quarantine tank?

What a nightmare ! I really appreciate everyone's time and input here.

 

A) do I quarantine white fin while I'm away or no and b) if so, is there anything else I can do to improve his prospects in the quarantine tank?

What a nightmare ! I really appreciate everyone's time and input here.

Haha there’s a lot of speculation on this forum on whether melafix/primafix is effective or not... some people swear by it, some say it’s useless. Good news is that moving white fin won’t stress him out more that he already is. Quarantine him with some salt. Here’s a good

on how to use salt to treat infections (treatment starts at 5:25). You can add salt to your main tank, but beware, it will kill your plants at the correct dosage.

Don’t worry about changing your pH. It’s way more important that you keep it stable, and most tropical fish like soft acidic water anyways. Sorry to hear that mucus baby didn’t pull through... hopefully everyone else will come out just fine.

 

Thanks - done!

Sooooo someone in another forum suggested he could be a juvenile double fin. I thought I'd call the shop and ask, but checked through my pics and they indeed have him marked down as "double ray" - Google talks about double ray crowntails, but he's obviously not a CT, sooooo maybe they mean double FIN and this is a normal healthy thing for him!?? I will call the shop today and ask anyways but. I am having a sneaky sense of hope that I won't have to have him out in quarantine/be spending my last weekend at home before I go away for a week hauling everyone out and scrubbing down the tank with bleach as I feared I might have to last night lol. Pic of him on hold waiting for me in the shop, and pic of his new home, just to share the good feelings around
View attachment 733188
View attachment 733189

This is not a double tail betta. It looks more like he tore his fins on something.

 

That's completely false. Why do you think frequent water changes will harm a betta?

Their body will adjust always if you water change every time. It's up to you...

No harm is being done by doing water changes. Also are you saying you only keep your bettas in 4x8x6 inch. Containers? If so, you really should upgrade.

4x8x6 is enough.
My bettas are healthy even they are not in a big tank but i feed them live mosquito larvae, daphnia and high protein pellet.
My other betta are also successful in breeding others are still incubating the eggs so I can't take pics for now..

 

4x8x6 is enough.
My bettas are healthy even they are not in a big tank but i feed them live mosquito larvae, daphnia and high protein pellet.
My other betta are also successful in breeding others are still incubating the eggs so I can't take pics for now..

Are you using the crashed PH method?

 

And also I put apple snail to clean up the left over foods that's why I only change water in 3-4 days.

 

4x8x6 is enough.
My bettas are healthy even they are not in a big tank but i feed them live mosquito larvae, daphnia and high protein pellet.
My other betta are also successful in breeding others are still incubating the eggs so I can't take pics for now..

If those are temporary containers before they find homes I think they’d be alright. But it it way to small for a permanent betta home.

A) do I quarantine white fin while I'm away or no and b) if so, is there anything else I can do to improve his prospects in the quarantine tank?

What a nightmare ! I really appreciate everyone's time and input here.

I wouldn’t use melafix if I were you, it killed my betta when I used it for a mild case of fin rot. It also can damage their labyrinth organ. Could you post some more pics? If this is a bacterial infection you’ll need some other meds to treat it, especially if it’s columnaris.

 

Update: I just got back from holidays. In the end, I portioned out food for 2 days while I was away (7 days), a sprinkling of flakes both tropical and spirulina and pellets and a wafer for the pleco; and asked the cat sitter to dose daily with melafix, as the aquatics store guy suggested.

Upon my return, rasbora has fully recovered - I cant tell which one had the white fin - they're all active and fat looking; and pleco is fine from what I've seen of her.

Unfortunately, betta looks very white and skinny, and fins have kind of shrivelled at the ends. The top part of his tail split has gotten very narrow. He didn't come up to the glass as normal, but was pouring through the plants, seemingly looking for food? When I was feeding them all brine shrimp, he'd go round the bottom of the tank and scoop up what had sunk while the rasboras only ate near the surface.

It seems like while I've been away the rasboras have eaten all the flakes and pellets, and the sitter didn't check that betta got any? Water parameters were pH 6.6, 0 ammo/nitri/nitrates, temp 25C.

I put in some pellets, and the rasboras dashed in and got them; I put a few more in while they were eating, and betta stared at them but didn't even try to eat them. So I couldn't help but put some brine shrimp in there for him, and he gobbled it up straight away. I feel a bit horrified that he's starved a whole week?

I did a 20% water change. I am terrified of stressing them all out too much now with large water changes... Will do another 20% in a few days time.

A few hours later and betta already looks perkier in his attitude if that makes sense. I think I will continue to use flakes but also a little brine shrimp which will sink to the bottom for the betta, but just not too much. Is there really anything wrong with regular brine shrimp?

 

Well, bettas can go up to 2 weeks without food so don’t worry about that. But why did you continue using melafix?? It really isn’t healthy for bettas because it can Damage their labyrinth organ which allows them to breath at the surface! Pics would help but I think that you’ll want to treat for a bacterial infection.

 

Apparently there's no real evidence for that being the case.... I know there is bettafix which is like a diluted formula of melafix, but it seems that's designed for the typically small tank volumes bettas are mainly kept in? And both the suppliers who were helping me said melafix is fine to use on bettas, and they use it on them all the time, so I just went with that.... he is breathing from the surface normally after a week of dosing so, I don't think it's been an issue in this case anyway. He just seems depressed and starved? pics from after eating brine shrimp.

 

Apparently there's no real evidence for that being the case.... I know there is bettafix which is like a diluted formula of melafix, but it seems that's designed for the typically small tank volumes bettas are mainly kept in? And both the suppliers who were helping me said melafix is fine to use on bettas, and they use it on them all the time, so I just went with that.... he is breathing from the surface normally after a week of dosing so, I don't think it's been an issue in this case anyway. He just seems depressed and starved? pics from after eating brine shrimp.
View attachment 735043View attachment 735044View attachment 735045

It has been known to cause issues. Betta fix and mela fix are both bad for bettas. He’s acting depressed because he’s stressed out, most likely because of the melafix. I would do a 50% water change to remove the melafix. It can also damage bettas gills in rare cases, and I’ve seen it kill apparently healthy bettas before.

 

Apparently there's no real evidence for that being the case.... I know there is bettafix which is like a diluted formula of melafix, but it seems that's designed for the typically small tank volumes bettas are mainly kept in? And both the suppliers who were helping me said melafix is fine to use on bettas, and they use it on them all the time, so I just went with that.... he is breathing from the surface normally after a week of dosing so, I don't think it's been an issue in this case anyway. He just seems depressed and starved? pics from after eating brine shrimp.
View attachment 735043View attachment 735044View attachment 735045

Apparently there is “real evidence” that it hurts bettas. Pimafix, melafix, and bettafix all coat the labyrinth organ and make it difficult for the fish to breathe. I would link websites that say it, but any search that has “betta” and “pima/mela/bettafix” in it will probably not have a single website that says otherwise. Even if it seems that your betta is breathing fine, he probably is weak and isn’t because he is having trouble breathing. Even a healthy betta can get super sick from one of those medications. I have first hand experience with this, as do many people. The suppliers told you otherwise because again: they don’t care about you or your fish 99% of the time. They just want your money, no matter what it takes. I wouldn’t listen to them. And 90% of the time anything that has “betta” in the name of the product is not suitable for bettas. Sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you or being mean in this post, im not trying to be, just trying to help.

 

Sorry, I know lots of people have claimed that these products have hurt their betta but in terms of actual empirical research, which they have to do to sell these products, there isn't any that I could find... if you do find some beyond anecdotal please do share.... it's so difficult to be certain of diagnosis as well, someone may think they're seeing a negative result just from adding melafix and not being aware of the many other potential variable factors. And same too, I can't be sure and no one else can either, without a blood test or something.. short of taking my fish to the vet (side note, do people do that? Would that be an option if things go wrong? That didn't even occur to me). In my case anyway, after two fish breeding and stocking people (one who was selling it, one who wasn't) looked at video footage of my animals and heard my situation and told me to try melafix, and after a quick but thorough (I just finished my degree, but I work and am a single parent too, so *quick* research is my game lol that's why I was on holidays, to celebrate that and my birthday! Horrible horrible timing with sick fish but I had to do it) look online, there are conflicting opinions for sure but no concrete evidence that I could find so I took the gamble. And it's fixed the rasboras issue, and betta seems better overnight just with after a proper meal - today still didn't touch the flakes but went for the shrimp which the sitter wasn't feeding him, I'm gonna go with that he was fine before and snagged his tail on something, and now he's stressed after a week with no food... And obviously keep a close eye and continue with small water changes til everything is back to normal. But will keep you posted, I really really appreciate the time and effort everyone has taken to help and share their thoughts and experiences, if there are changes or an 'outcome' after a few more days or weeks positive or negative I will share it here. Thanks all.

 

Yes, I’ve heard of people taking fish to a vet. Most of the time it’s larger fish though.

I more know this from reading others experiences, my experience, and also looking at the ingredients but it really won’t do anything. The rasboras healed despite the melafix, not because of it. While there are very rare cases where it’s effective, it really won’t do anything to help against disease. You can keep using it if you want but if he heals it won’t be because of it.

 

Thanks for this. The aquatic store guy said its lil taking vitamins versus antibiotics; more to prevent things from getting worse and to support the immune system, than for an actual treatment. As I was not home to observe I didn't want to use any strong meds so that was the go for me in this situation.

I'm not using it anymore as the instructions are for 7 days then cease unless there is no improvement, but there has been so. Certainly not putting anything else in there.

But after some food, betta is MUCH brighter and happier. I can't be sure there's a difference in fin clamping or not, I THINK there is already but not sure if that's possible overnight, but his attitude is definitely improved. Pic from today after a big breakfast